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Denied?

Ricochet said:
If you get pulled over alot, be mindful of transport laws and the like. They'll be all over you for that...
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With an FID, he can't own anything to which 131C applies. Just keep your guns unloaded while in a vehicle, and locked in the trunk while you're not in the vehicle. I'd recommend keeping them locked in the trunk while you are in the vehicle as well, but it's not a legal requirement.
 
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Well if the cops were lying 2 or 3 times what about the other 4? The "I am just a kid and a victim of police oppression" line just doesn't hack it. I think that there is more to the story, and I sense that you might have an attitude problem with authority figures like police officers and maybe teachers too.

That aside, an FID is a "shall issue" credential, but you also have to remember that your entire record is and will be reviewed by the licensing authority. They may indeed be trying to f**k with you, but I suspect that you are not an unknown person to the local police department. It's really simple, 90 percent of the time if you make nice with the cops, they will make nice with you. Or it could be like Ken said, they haven't even submitted the paperwork to the CHSB yet, or it has been returned and they are sitting on it. Why? Because they can.

Why would you have a police baton if you are not a cop or a security guard?

For some reason, my bullshit detectors are redlining when I read your "story." If I'm wrong, my apologies...but I don't think I am.

Mark L.
 
mark056 said:
For some reason, my bullshit detectors are redlining when I read your "story."
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Agreed. We're not getting the whole truth.

mark056 said:
Why would you have a police baton if you are not a cop or a security guard?
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Why would you have an 'assault weapon' if you are not military or police? As long as the baton was not under his control in the vehicle, there was absolutely nothing illegal about his possession of it. And even if it was under his control, the cop would have to charge him with breach of peace, or arrest him for an outstanding warrant, before possession would be considered illegal.
 
jdubois said:
Why would you have an 'assault weapon' if you are not military or police? As long as the baton was not under his control in the vehicle, there was absolutely nothing illegal about his possession of it. And even if it was under his control, the cop would have to charge him with breach of peace, or arrest him for an outstanding warrant, before possession would be considered illegal.
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The issue is NOT about his right to own one. The intelligence analyst in me is saying that is an "object out of place" and I know if I were a police officer in the field I would ask why do you have that? The kind of response that I got, and more importantly the "vibe' or attitude that I got from the respondent would determine my course of action and the attitude that I would assume. That's human nature.

I think all too often we immediately jump on the civil rights bandwagon, and try to make analogies about situations and then apply them to the lawful posession of firearms. In doing so, we frequently overlook human nature. Stopping someone and finding a police baton is peculiar, very peculiar and is going to evoke curiousity. Good police work frequently involves stopping and interviewing "people out of place" and noting "objects out of place" or as I like to refer to it as "poops and oops"...it was a deputy sheriff who first noted that Tim McVeigh's vehicle didn't have a license plate. What could have been a routine traffic stop turned into more as McVeigh's behavior and responses just didn't seem right.

Now apparently the OP answered the question to the officer's satisfaction and in the end the baton was not a factor in anything relating to what he was finally charged with.

We want the police to be tough on criminals...the problem is the cops don't know who the good guys or the bad guys are until they ask a few questions and frankly, carrying around a police baton is queer, mighty queer and evokes an inquiry. Sorry if you are not comfortable with that and want to make analogous quantum leaps...but that is both fact and reality. In the end a person who provides a perfectly satisfactory explanation without an attitude is not going to have a problem. Of course, there are those among us who will say it shouldn't be that way and it doesn't matter what kind of attitude we display. It well may be that is the way it is in a perfect world but not the one I live in. [wink]

Mark L.
 
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mark056 said:
The issue is NOT about his right to own one. The intelligence analyst in me is saying that is an "object out of place" and I know if I were a police officer in the field I would ask why do you have that? The kind of response that I got, and more importantly the "vibe' or attitude that I got from the respondent would determine my course of action and the attitude that I would assume. That's human nature.

I think all too often we immediately jump on the civil rights bandwagon, and try to make analogies about situations and then apply them to the lawful posession of firearms. In doing so, we frequently overlook human nature. Stopping someone and finding a police baton is peculiar, very peculiar and is going to evoke curiousity. Good police work frequently involves stopping and interviewing "people out of place" and noting "objects out of place" or as I like to refer to it as "poops and oops"...it was a deputy sheriff who first noted that Tim McVeigh's vehicle didn't have a license plate. What could have been a routine traffic stop turned into more as McVeigh's behavior and responses just didn't seem right.

Now apparently the OP answered the question to the officer's satisfaction and in the end was not a factor in anything relating to what he was finally charged with.

We want the police to be tough on criminals...the problem is the cops don't know who the good guys or the bad guys are until they ask a few questions and frankly, carrying around a police baton is queer, mighty queer and evokes at an inquiry. Sorry if you are not comfortable with that and want to make analogous quantum leaps...but that is both fact and reality. In the end a person who provides a perfectly satisfactory explanation without an attitude is not going to have a problem. Of course, there are those among us who will say it shouldn't be that way and it doesn't matter what kind of attitude we display. It well may be that is the way it is in a perfect world but not the one I live in. [wink]

Mark L.
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Agreed 100%
 
mark056 said:
Now apparently the OP answered the question to the officer's satisfaction and in the end was not a factor in anything relating to what he was finally charged with.
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Exactly. So why did you bring it up? I wasn't making any comment on a police officer's need or ability to ask questions. I was making a comment on your question here on the forum about it. Without any details about where the baton was located (was it locked in the trunk, underneath the seat, or was it shoved in his belt?) you zoomed in on mere possession of it and insinuated that nobody should have a baton in their vehicle if they aren't police or security. If that is your "fact and reality", it is very different from my "fact and reality". I drew the analogy to firearms because I find possession of a baton for protection no more 'queer' than possession of a gun for protection.
 
jdubois said:
Exactly. So why did you bring it up? I wasn't making any comment on a police officer's need or ability to ask questions. I was making a comment on your question here on the forum about it. Without any details about where the baton was located (was it locked in the trunk, or was it shoved in his belt?) you zoomed in on mere possession of it and insinuated that nobody should have a baton in their vehicle if they aren't police or security. If that is your "fact and reality", it is very different from my "fact and reality". I drew the analogy to firearms because I find possession of a baton for protection no more 'queer' than possession of a gun for protection.
Click to expand...

Sir, I insinuated nothing nor did I impy that no one should have a baton. You jumped to some conclusions very quickly. I merely opined that it is equipment that normally is reserved for police and security personnel. I do find that it is unusual that people not engaged in law enforcement or security carrying a baton for protection; at least in the context of my experience which may not be as considerable as yours, as I merely work in the criminal justice system and not the wine trade. Frequently I find people especially those from the New York City area in posession of baseball bats, even in the dead of winter who carry for protection.

If you would have read my post a little more carefully you would have noted that I stated that the intelligence analyst in me would question why a person who was not in law enforcement or security carry a baton. Doing intelligence analysis for law enforcement is what I do for a living.

I think you have become very emotional over this and have responded with some irritation and perhaps even anger. That is most unfortunate as you are a very erudite, intelligent and usually articulate poster as well as having an extensive knowledge of wines. Perhaps you partook a little too much of the grape last night in celebration of the New Year and are not up to par this morning [wink]. In any event I wish you a happy and prosperous New Year and nothing but the best these next 12 months, Lord knows we need it.

With best wishes,

Mark L.
 
mark056 said:
I'll look forward to seeing you then [wink].

Mark L.
Click to expand...

[grin]
coexist1.jpg
[grin]​
 
mark056 said:
The issue is NOT about his right to own one. The intelligence analyst in me is saying that is an "object out of place" and I know if I were a police officer in the field I would ask why do you have that? The kind of response that I got, and more importantly the "vibe' or attitude that I got from the respondent would determine my course of action and the attitude that I would assume. That's human nature.

I think all too often we immediately jump on the civil rights bandwagon, and try to make analogies about situations and then apply them to the lawful posession of firearms. In doing so, we frequently overlook human nature. Stopping someone and finding a police baton is peculiar, very peculiar and is going to evoke curiousity. Good police work frequently involves stopping and interviewing "people out of place" and noting "objects out of place" or as I like to refer to it as "poops and oops"...it was a deputy sheriff who first noted that Tim McVeigh's vehicle didn't have a license plate. What could have been a routine traffic stop turned into more as McVeigh's behavior and responses just didn't seem right.

Now apparently the OP answered the question to the officer's satisfaction and in the end the baton was not a factor in anything relating to what he was finally charged with.

We want the police to be tough on criminals...the problem is the cops don't know who the good guys or the bad guys are until they ask a few questions and frankly, carrying around a police baton is queer, mighty queer and evokes an inquiry. Sorry if you are not comfortable with that and want to make analogous quantum leaps...but that is both fact and reality. In the end a person who provides a perfectly satisfactory explanation without an attitude is not going to have a problem. Of course, there are those among us who will say it shouldn't be that way and it doesn't matter what kind of attitude we display. It well may be that is the way it is in a perfect world but not the one I live in. [wink]

Mark L.
Click to expand...


Excellent post! +1
 
I told you all the whole truth. I have no attitude problem. Reason i had a police baton is a few of my friends got shot and stabbed, and I didn't have an FID or LTC so i got a baton for my own protection. I am not a punk, nothing close. Im in college, 3.94 GPA, no real criminal record. The seller told me it was 100% legal. I wasn't thinking when I did not look into the laws. I am now out of that city because of college, so protection isn't really necessary now. I just had one at the time for that reason and that reason only.

I am not a vicitm of police oppression, most of the time htey exagerated my speed by a large margin. I got 2 or 3 fair tickets, but then after that everytime i went into the town they followed me and made some stuff up.

Sorry if I came off like a punk with an attitude
 
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Yeah I called CHSB when I applied for my FID I believe. I went through the process twice because I later applied for my LTC about 2 years later. They say it should take 6-8 weeks normally so I would wait until after 8 weeks before you start bothering them. I mean I know it's their job but those are the guys you wanna avoid pissin off because if you intend on going for your LTC or reapplying for your FID you WILL be remembered and it'll probably take even longer. Waiting for my LTC was one of the longest 7 weeks of my life. Sit and wait and if nothing comes in after 8 weeks call CHSB and see if they have processed an application. If not, then call your PD and ask what may be the hold up. Hope this helps.
 
Nothing, really. I just saw that a baton was mentioned, and know that in the past that some have asserted that they are illegal to own.
 
Why pay for and then get caught with a baton in your car,legal or not, when every single car in this country is supplied with a tire iron ?
Even a hammer or a large heavy ratchet would attract less attention whenever you get caught driving like a pinhead.
You may have had a friend who was injured in an attack but I had a friend who was run down like a lame dog while jogging by someone who had a driving record similar to yours.
Perhaps they should have said that they will give you your FID if you gave them your driving license. That car you are driving is a dangerous weapon that you dont seem to be able to handle responsibly.
Slow the f&^% down or do us all a favor and take the bus.[angry]
 
vellnueve said:
A baton is legal unless used in the commission of a crime, or something like that.
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As I mentioned above, it is illegal to possess a baton while being arrested for an outstanding warrant, or while disturbing the public peace. But, as Mark notes, the legality of the possession in this case wasn't really in dispute. Our disagreement was in whether a baton should be considered a suspicious item during a stop.
 
tspills88 said:
most of the time htey [sic]exagerated my speed by a large margin. I got 2 or 3 fair tickets, but then after that everytime i went into the town they followed me and made some stuff up.

Sorry if I came off like a punk with an attitude
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Sorry...but you are still coming off as a punk with an attitude. Glad to hear that you have obtained your FID.

Enjoy your long gun ownership. [wink]
 
Half Cocked said:
Sorry...but you are still coming off as a punk with an attitude. Glad to hear that you have obtained your FID.

Enjoy your long gun ownership. [wink]
Click to expand...

O well, not hear to impress you or to convince you of something. Thanks for the wishes though.

And as people are saying, obey the transport laws. The only places I can transport the gun would be to my house or the range, correct? Would I be able to keep it locked up, and in 2 peices in my trunk just going to my buddies house, or my fathers house?
 
There is no requirement to lock a non-large capacity rifle or shotgun in the trunk or in a case during car transport. The only requirement is that it be unloaded. However, you must lock it up if you store it in the car, thus if you stop somewhere and want to leave it in the car, you must lock it up.
 
tspills88 said:
And as people are saying, obey the transport laws. The only places I can transport the gun would be to my house or the range, correct? Would I be able to keep it locked up, and in 2 peices in my trunk just going to my buddies house, or my fathers house?
Click to expand...

There are no such restrictions on where you can transport your guns. With the guns you can possess on your FID, there really aren't much in the way of transport laws you are bound by. If you're allowed to possess it on your FID, you can transport it unloaded in your vehicle. Transporting it in a locked trunk is not a legal requirement, but a good idea. While you are not in your vehicle, you have to at a minimum keep it locked up in the trunk. I'd recommend also having a trigger lock on it or have it in a locked case for complete legal safety, as when you are not in the car you have to obey the storage laws, and a locked car trunk may or may not be considered a 'locked container'.

So, to sum up transfer laws for you-

Your legal requirement: keep the gun unloaded while transporting it.

Safest practice: keep the gun unloaded and locked in the trunk with a trigger lock on it or in a locked case.



If you get your LTC and get handguns and/or large capacity rifles and shotguns, your transport requirements become more strict.
 
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Thanks alot!

I keep it with a trigger lock on, unloaded, and the barrel off, all locked in the trunk. So I am guessing I am good to go
 

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