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democrats for gun ownership
- Thread starter Cerfur
- Start date
For the fella who is batman, that's pritty cool but I belive batman is antigun..... moving on what we really need is a high profile person with a ccw to save lives to the point the media cannot sweep it under the rug! I know of 100 cases where a ccw has saved lives but the media always covers it up!
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The "clinging to guns and religion" comment was the most telling of all. That is when his true opinion came through. Obama is a liar and a coward and a hypocrite. I believed he would do something positive towards ending the "war on drugs", given his frequent usage of them during his life, and yet he has done nothing useful at all. The "fast and furious" scandal is the final nail in the coffin. I voted for him because I just couldn't stomach Sarah Palin in a position of power. If she had ended up as president, I think that might have been the most dangerous situation for our country since Russia got the nuclear bomb. But I'm never going to make the mistake of voting for anyone like him again.
kingfisher
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That's the way I vote, too, and I'm a huge supporter of GOAL.
However, people need to be careful how they use the ratings that GOAL gives MA legislators. Apparently, the pols get rated based upon a questionnaire, and the consensus seems to be that some of them lie to get higher ratings.
I don't know how Rep. Kevin J. Murphy in the Eighteenth Middlesex House District answered the questionnaire, or if anything else goes into determining a rating, but I do know that he helped write the Home Rule Petition which would have required Lowell gun owners to install safes and alarm systems in their homes.
They were told later that it would be illegal to do that, so his intention was to make it into statewide legislation, but AFAIK it has not been given a bill number yet.
Rep. Murphy is rated "B" on GOAL's website, so people need to dig a little deeper when deciding who to vote for. His rating should be changed to "F" based upon the above action alone!
A search may reveal some previous threads where this was discussed.
Horrible
NES Member
I fear Gov takeover of corporations wayyyyy more.
What power does a corporation have over me? They can berrade me ads to buy their product. That is about all.
Gov can throw me in jail and take away all my possessions that I have worked for, my freedom, and my life.
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Lesson learned. Hope that you aren't voting for him this time around.
Horrible
NES Member
You mean the ones that pay NO taxes? The ones that collect welfare checks? The only way I see them being exploited is essentially getting paid to vote Democrat.
What about the 53% of people in this country that pay ALL of the taxes so that those mentioned above don't have to work or pay in?
WHO are the ones being exploited?
Actually, when corporations and government become too close, they can do those things, too, but for their own economic interests. Corporations can sue the crap out of you, tying up your financial resources and almost guaranteeing you lose, because they can afford more lawyer than you can. Corporations can pollute your environment, sell you cancer-causing chemicals in the form of cigarettes or window cleaner,, and make sure that you have an unsafe work environment, because it's cheaper than a safe one. They can pay you substandard wages because, hey, they can, and that means more for them, to hell with you and your wife, kids, sick parents, whatever.
I'm not saying that all corporations do, but the big, powerful, multinational ones especially have the swing as well as the motivation to do at least some of these things. The Chinese sell us poisoned pet food and toxic toys, and what did they suffer for it, exactly? Ban on goods? Tariffs? Factories shut down? Temporary slowdown of production, because the "right" people are making money from those business practices.
The whole point of a government is to try to even the playing ground a bit-- you might work for your bosses, but that doesn't elevate them into a demi-god status where they should be able to haphazardly control your health, safety, and every waking moment of your life. Unfortunately, when the government isn't doing its job (aka now) then people suffer needlessly so a chosen few can become unbelievably wealthy.
That is the power a private interest can hold over you when the government is not doing its primary job, which is unilaterally guaranteeing the rights of its people, regardless of any other affiliation or status they may have.
PeterGV
NES Member
You know... there's even The Liberal Gun Club -- Have fun with that.
I know I'm new here, and I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn. But can I just pipe-in a second with a call for reason?
Lots of people are pro-gun, folks. Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians, citizens, legal resident aliens (even!). Lots of people. And, you know what? There are many different reasons that people enjoy firearms and support the 2A.
In a recent Hangdun 101 class that I attended at Sig Academy with my wife, way more than half of the students were Democrats. It actually came up in class. If you're one of the Republican/Libertarian gun supporters, I suggest you actually welcome this fact. You're pro gun, pro 2A. The people in this class who are Democrats are pro gun and pro 2A. That means more pro-gun and more pro-2A people! That's a good thing, right?
Even if you believe being a member of the Democratic party is not well aligned with supporting 2A rights (which I don't think is the case, personally... but whatever), not everybody makes gun ownership the prime, single, defining, issue on which they base their political choices. Now, I get that some of you think it should be the single most important issue. That's good for you. I respect that. But it's not good for everyone, obviously. Some of us think other things are equally important in the grand scheme of things.
So, while you may enjoy it, I don't think it's such a great idea to be bashing the crap out of people who post in this thread and say they're Democrats and they support gun rights. If you think they're deluded and misguided... fine. But at least shake their hand and welcome their support of gun ownership and the second amendment. That's cool, right? It's something we can all agree on, right?
I now return you to your regularly scheduled course of vitriol and demagoguery.
I know I'm new here, and I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn. But can I just pipe-in a second with a call for reason?
Lots of people are pro-gun, folks. Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians, citizens, legal resident aliens (even!). Lots of people. And, you know what? There are many different reasons that people enjoy firearms and support the 2A.
In a recent Hangdun 101 class that I attended at Sig Academy with my wife, way more than half of the students were Democrats. It actually came up in class. If you're one of the Republican/Libertarian gun supporters, I suggest you actually welcome this fact. You're pro gun, pro 2A. The people in this class who are Democrats are pro gun and pro 2A. That means more pro-gun and more pro-2A people! That's a good thing, right?
Even if you believe being a member of the Democratic party is not well aligned with supporting 2A rights (which I don't think is the case, personally... but whatever), not everybody makes gun ownership the prime, single, defining, issue on which they base their political choices. Now, I get that some of you think it should be the single most important issue. That's good for you. I respect that. But it's not good for everyone, obviously. Some of us think other things are equally important in the grand scheme of things.
So, while you may enjoy it, I don't think it's such a great idea to be bashing the crap out of people who post in this thread and say they're Democrats and they support gun rights. If you think they're deluded and misguided... fine. But at least shake their hand and welcome their support of gun ownership and the second amendment. That's cool, right? It's something we can all agree on, right?
I now return you to your regularly scheduled course of vitriol and demagoguery.
Moreover, those voting for idiots we have running this state aren't going escape responsibility and our wrath for having done so.
I think you're jumping to conclusions by assuming that most would actually support RKBA in the manner that the framers intended. (EG, as a creator endowed, individual right-a NATURAL right... where the government is only ever allowed to place minimal (non infringing) restrictions upon. ) I guarantee you that if I put them on the ropes, so to speak, at least 80% of them would fail the test, and the other 20% that would pass it would leave the room questioning why they ever voted for a democrat. (or most republicans, for that matter, even if they were Rs)
The reality is most people don't want liberty, they fap and fawn over being taken care of by "the man".
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
A lot of people pay lip service about the 2nd amendment but when you grill them you usually discover three things:
-They don't know or understand what it really means. They -REALLY- don't understand the concept of natural rights.... at all.
-They think that some level of the government ****ing around with your rights is "just fine" as long as "they" still have access to firearms. (They're just fine with permits and licensing and background checks and all of that other unconstitutional
bullshit, at least until they get trapped in the teeth of the machine. )
-Very few of them are willing to swallow the bitter pills required once in awhile as a
cost of enjoying real individual freedoms.
My point is that someone owning a gun and claiming that they "support the second amendment" might not be all that it seems to be.
Case in point... We have like 80 million gun owners (of varying political stripes) in the US. I would bet nearly anything no more than 10 million of them are involved in any kind of RKBA advocacy or any organization... and even out of that 10 million, probably more than half of them are in the NRA, which is wonky-weeble ville to begin with.
ETA: This isn't just a "democrat" problem it's a gun owner problem.
-Mike
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When the things you think are important involve the threat of men with rifles ready to come take my earnings by force, it is not "cool." You could give your whole life's savings to the JPFO, GOA, or some other worthy gun rights fund... But it wouldn't stop you from thinking that it's okay to vote politicians into office who want to take what's mine and give it to someone else.
So no, it's not cool. People who want to do these things need to be bashed so they can either see things straight or understand the position they will be in if things go south - it won't be the same as many of the other 2A supporters.
From where I sit, the D is only *slightly* worse than the R as far as shitting all over the Constitution, but really both of the major parties can all go to the gallows for what they're worth.
in all reality A big reason why i am independent is because I believe we need both republicans and democrats to run this country! The absolute hatred for one or the other I believe is what gets us in trouble..Like in the corporate world you need both male and female management, all male you often get a to laid back atmosphere all female you get cat fights and down right totalitarianism..A mix of the two you can get a properly run company....... But flame on my friends I can take it! Glad to see a few folks have come to my defense and as i said if you fellas only knew who was sending me PM's i am sure all hell would break lose!
So you suggest we mix flesh eating virus and ebola together to cure cancer? Not sure how that makes any sense.
This isn't like "dogs and cats, living together". Your suggestion is like trying to tell us that termites and roaches can have a collaboration to help america. Meanwhile, in reality, both are destroying it in their own unique ways.
-Mike
not going to disagree with you but those are our 2 current choices in all reality I dont like that fact ant more then you do another reason why i am indy...In the totem pole of life they are 3 steps below morgage brokers and car salesman
Is this thread still open??![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
I've resisted the urge to kill it because it's only partially mind numbing (and some good points have been brought up here) although I'm sure the train will arrive at the appropriate station in short order.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
-Mike
Bill Nance
Banned
The Republican party has gone from an ideological movement in the mid 80s to a cynical, power-hungry group with ZERO principles, other than staying in power and enriching their supporters.
As much as I despise the Dems, (and Brother, I DO despise them) at least they've stayed true to some semblance aof a coherent national policy and won't sell the entire country out AS A PARTY merely to gain power.
I despise both parties, for different reasons.
But pretending that the R's are anything other than cynical, non-principled scum at this point is willful ignorance. We've had about 10 different tries from Obama to arrive at a compromise. A GENUINE compromise. The Rs have doubled down on making this a failed presidency because it suits their political ends. Not out of principle, not out of patriotism. Out of simple, unvarnished lust for power.
The Dems offered 10-1 spending cuts to tax increases and it was rejected. The Dems have actually presided over economic prosperity over the last 20 years. The Rs have presided over massive wealth transfers to the very wealthy while middle America got screwed. That's a FACT, not spin or anything else.
There's no question in my mind that BOTH parties put the interest of Wall St. ahead of most other factors. There's some validity in that as wealth to SOME extent, really DOES "trickle down."
But the R's have been plain whores to the great monied interests while the Dems have attempted to keep some semblance of balance.
Hell, you guy nominate the author of Obamacare while in the ame sentence saying how awful and evil it is.
I agree it's evil. they should have done Medicare for all and have done with it. That's what happens when you elect a Rookie in an exceptional year. -Obama didn't have the ideas or the balls to push thru the OBVIOUS right thing. It was WORSE than nothing because it cemented in lot's of people's heads the idea that government can't work.
I don't subscribe to that theory. I never have.
Government should be doing what private industry can't or won't. Healthcare is among those. So is streets, sewers, police, fire-protection and national defense.
And FWIW, Medicare for all wouldn't have got past a single federal court judge. Spending money is within the purview of Congress, period, end of story.
This all or nothing approach that the extremes always advocate is futile, non-productive and not in ANY way conservative. Burke would spit on the current GOP, as would Oakeshot. It's NOT conservative, no matter how many times FOX and Limbaugh try to pretend that their radical right ideologies are. %The GOP is at present, a group that's unhinged from all reality, immune to all fact and argument and dedicated to one and ONLY one principle: Get Power No Matter What It Takes.
The hatred of Obama, at best a well-meaning naif, at worst a well-meaning naif, is nonsensical. It always has been. The Obama haters here are easily motivated sheeo without a second of thought for themselves. They're being maniupulated by much more sophisticated, much smarter people into thinking that the ****** is the end of the world when at worst he's a ho-hum non-entity.
I would feel differently if this board wasn't 99% pro bush prior to 2007. But they were. A president who presided over VASTLY more spending than Obama, with LESS excuse, an increase of Federal authority that makes ACA look like NOTHING, but that was all fine.
But let Fox News start raising Hell, Let a D win the WH, and all of a sudden the VERY same people start having screaming tizzys over the things they were defending five minutes before.
Obama didn't create this economy. the Republicans, with 14 years total control over congress, Senate and 8 of the Presidency did that one. He's cleaning up the mess your buddies did. Not doing a great job, but iof you think for one second I'm going to vote for a shill and sham like Romney, you're high. Ron Paul as a write-in. the one guy that's run on the GOP ticket since Reagan I could actually get behind and he's DESTROYED by the same network of power0-hungry, corrupt scum that you guys like to rail about when they have D by their name, but ignore when it's done by the Rs.
EC1
NES Member
I've resisted the urge to kill it because it's only partially mind numbing (and some good points have been brought up here) although I'm sure the train will arrive at the appropriate station in short order.
-Mike
Have to agree about some good points, but some comments show that people have only scratched the surface and not looked any deeper into the economic issues, including the removal of the Glass-Steagle act, the community re-investiment act and the twins Dodd and Frank threats to banks as well as their involvement in FannieMae and FreddieMac (basically a large responsibility for the false economic boon of the Clinton years)......cam't bear reading this much more.........
Bill Nance
Banned
Cite some more Fox-News, Limbaugh and InfoWars crap the maniacs have put into your head.
In FACT, The Glass-Steaglle act (spelled correctly for you) PREVENTED the kind of shenanigans that precipitated the downfall of 2008. It was the Graham-Leach act, passed July 1, 1999, by a vote of 343-86 (Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent 0–1),
That set the stage for 2008. A vote only 16 Republicans out of 231 voted against, while less than 50% of Dems voted for it.
The Graham-Leach Act is named for two REPUBLICAN congressmen/senators.
You can go back to 1930s legislation all you want to. The bottom line is that from 1936 to 1968, the USA was doing fine under overwhelmingly democratically Democrat leadership.
From 1972 onwards, we've had consistently MASSIVE deficits and debt, except when a Democrat has been in office. That's a fact, look it up.
Only the ideologues claim anything else. Again, I am NOT a Democrat. The DNC policy on gun control would send me away howling if nothing else did.
But the pretense that the Rs are anything other than a shill and sham for the monied classes is a pathetic joke. It's only through a combination of religion and racism and jingoism that the GOP has retained any semblance whatever of credibility. And that, primarily among people to willing to accept conspiracy theory, a counter-factual view of history and a paranoid view of "assault of their values" as the main constituency.
Bill you have hit the nail on the head on why I have voted for more d then r in recent years however I don't know if it is possible anymore but wanted to keep this thread solely about 2a and 2a supporting democrats not thag is really happening any way
I also have to agree with 99% of this post. Now I'm just waiting for the sh*t-storm of posts to follow from the die hard repubs in this forum who will be foaming at the mouth before finishing this post. Get ready for the "your a p*ssy liberal, you're a commie, and you hate freedom" comments to begin.
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