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Palladin

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OK we're back!

But as an update while we are here, I think on Rt 38 in Dracut, just south of the NH line there is a new sign telling people gun permits are required in MA

When I get back north I'll get a picture of it.
not sure if Dracut did it, but Methuen police put signs on all the side streets leading from Salem & Pelham into Methuen. "Permit required for all firearms"

 
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Seems to me that the very first person charged under B-F was a little old lady who heard about the law after it passed and was publicized, then took her deceased husband's pistol to surrender it at the local police station 9thinking she was doing the right thing.) They threw the book at her and charged her. It was highly publicized and they must have quietly dropped the charges or given probation.
 
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They don't want to arrest, convict or imprison gang bangers. They want to arrest, convict and imprison their political opponents like you and I. You getting this yet? The only thing stopping them right now is the shock value of emptying out whole communities of law abiding citizens would be enormous political back lash.
Correct, gangbangers with illegal weapons walk but a lawful Ma. gun owner will get arrested and prosecuted for a hi-cap mag or improper storage. All part of the Progressive plan folks.
 

Chevy 2 65

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You want public safety. Require all reregistered drivers to install a breathalyzer in their vehicle.
When the ass clowns in office demand public safety they are full of shit.



Alcohol is a leading cause of traffic fatalities. Drinking and driving kills 28 people a day in the U.S. — about one person every 52 minutes — according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). That is more than 10,000 lives lost each year to drunk driving.May 26, 2022
 

nstassel

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I know...

Rich knows that I bristle when this issue comes up. I understand that it's commonly believed that the mandatory 1.5 years (it was increased several years ago) is rarely given out. This belief satisfies our collective desire to argue that existing laws aren't enforced so why enact others?

The problem is that the mandatory sentences are frequently given out. Sure they are sometimes dismissed. I often can get the DA to drop a gun charge for someone who accidently comes into mass with a gun. But I personally have prosecuted many and seen dozens and dozens of people get the mandatory sentence. Rarely is the mandatory sentence plead bargained away. Mostly I'm talking about cases in Boston but I've seen plenty in Middlesex and Worcester too with my own two eyes.
 
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Miguelito

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I know...

Rich knows that I bristle when this issue comes up. I understand that it's commonly believed that the mandatory 1.5 years (it was increased several years ago) is rarely given out. This belief satisfies our collective desire to argue that existing laws aren't enforced so why enact others.

The problem is that the mandatory sentences are frequently given out. Sure they are sometimes dismissed. I often can get the DA to drop a gun charge for someone who accidently comes into mass with a gun. But I personally have prosecuted many and seen dozens and dozens of people get the mandatory sentence. Rarely is the mandatory sentence plead bargained away. Mostly I'm talking about cases in Boston but I've seen plenty in Middlesex and Worcester too with my own two eyes.
I appreciate your perspective, but do you have any statistics? Else it's just anecdotal, Like everything else on this site. ;-)
 

nstassel

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I appreciate your perspective, but do you have any statistics? Else it's just anecdotal, Like everything else on this site. ;-)
I tried at one point to get them from dcjis but ran into a road block. It's probably a public records request away. Someday I'll get motivated.
 

Miguelito

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I don't, though I referenced that I appreciated his perspective, as I do. I don't mean to offend, but my comment stands.
And I do not believe, for one millionth of a second, that the alleged mandatory one year (or one and a half) in prison is enforced and served in even a substantial minority of cases.
 

M1911

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And I do not believe, for one millionth of a second, that the alleged mandatory one year (or one and a half) in prison is enforced and served in even a substantial minority of cases.
A prominent and well-respected defense attorney, who also spent 12 years as an assistant district attorney and thus has decades of direct experience on both sides, has just told you otherwise. What is your direct experience with criminal prosecutions of firearms charges in MA?
 

Rob Boudrie

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That's what I recall too. He ordered the signs made and installed at all the major border crossings.

IIRC, when Ed King became Governor, he ordered the signs removed. Does anyone remember anything different?
I remember King being governor before Dukakis, so it would be impossible for him to countermand a Dukakis policy.

When I lived in upstate NY, a much of cops on the way to MA for training (probably at S&W) all stopped to post with their guns in front of the sign on I90.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I know...

Rich knows that I bristle when this issue comes up. I understand that it's commonly believed that the mandatory 1.5 years (it was increased several years ago) is rarely given out. This belief satisfies our collective desire to argue that existing laws aren't enforced so why enact others.

The problem is that the mandatory sentences are frequently given out. Sure they are sometimes dismissed. I often can get the DA to drop a gun charge for someone who accidently comes into mass with a gun. But I personally have prosecuted many and seen dozens and dozens of people get the mandatory sentence. Rarely is the mandatory sentence plead bargained away. Mostly I'm talking about cases in Boston but I've seen plenty in Middlesex and Worcester too with my own two eyes.
In your experience, did defendants who had additional charges have an easier time bargaining away the gun charge than those who had no other offenses they could cop a plea to as part of a bargain?

One example: Texan fights Massachusetts for 2nd Amendment rights
 

Fixxah

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They don't want to arrest, convict or imprison gang bangers. They want to arrest, convict and imprison their political opponents like you and I. You getting this yet? The only thing stopping them right now is the shock value of emptying out whole communities of law abiding citizens would be enormous political back lash.
There is no money in it from gangbangers. By nailing law abiding owners to the wall for bullshit charges they can milk the cash cow while crying for pols to "Do Something! (tm)" while draining your finances.
 

drgrant

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I know...

Rich knows that I bristle when this issue comes up. I understand that it's commonly believed that the mandatory 1.5 years (it was increased several years ago) is rarely given out. This belief satisfies our collective desire to argue that existing laws aren't enforced so why enact others?

The problem is that the mandatory sentences are frequently given out. Sure they are sometimes dismissed. I often can get the DA to drop a gun charge for someone who accidently comes into mass with a gun. But I personally have prosecuted many and seen dozens and dozens of people get the mandatory sentence. Rarely is the mandatory sentence plead bargained away. Mostly I'm talking about cases in Boston but I've seen plenty in Middlesex and Worcester too with my own two eyes.
I thought the deal was the DAs dont go for bartley fox because many gun cases w/o ltc involve more serious felonies which they'd have to forego if they wanted BF because of the House of corrections vs state prison issue. So they don't consider BF because they'd have to dump ADW or similar. Which makes them look bad....
 

nstassel

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I thought the deal was the DAs dont go for bartley fox because many gun cases w/o ltc involve more serious felonies which they'd have to forego if they wanted BF because of the House of corrections vs state prison issue. So they don't consider BF because they'd have to dump ADW or similar. Which makes them look bad....
You can get 2.5-5 years in prison for first offense so if someone getting whacked on an armed assault that will get rolled in too to set up the second offense later.

In the usual situation where the victim is a bad witness or refuses to testify then often only the gun charge gets pleaded. I have a case now similar to that where the only charge the DA will plead him to is the gun and they'd dismiss the assault with it, as well as the carrying of a loaded firearm and ammo.
 
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nstassel

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And I do not believe, for one millionth of a second, that the alleged mandatory one year (or one and a half) in prison is enforced and served in even a substantial minority of cases.
You're entitled to your beliefs no matter how uninformed they are. But I deal in realities and am a guy that sees real people get launched and visits them in jail.

Here's two examples of a cases going on right now that the DA intends to incarcerate that the attorney has reached out to me for help:

case one
Client inherits a WWII pistol from deceased grandfather in Michigan. Client had a FID card, but let it lapse. Stores pistol and ammunition in a locked safe. He never uses or fires gun, keeps it only as sentimental keep sake from grand father. On wife’s urging he buries gun and bullets in locked safe on property to keep away from young childrens.
Some point later, client and his wife argue, he leaves household and goes to live in a friend’s cabin in Maine;
Wife obtains ex parte 209A order, which is served on Husband in Maine, and which includes language about surrendering any guns…
Husband has no way , no money to travel from N. Maine back to Reading to surrender gun, so he explains to Maine officers (who served him with RO order) where gun is.
Reading PD goes to property with metal detector and cannot find gun.
Husband returns to MA to face extension hearing on wife’s RO. Afterwards, he goes to residence and digs up safe with gun and bullets, still locked in safe, and delivers / surrenders to Reading PD.
53 days later, Reading PD files the above two charges against Husband and cites client’s “delay” in surrendering guns and ammunition.

case two
guy who lives in NH runs a street sweeper in parking lots at night. cop sees him empty the sweeper into a private dumpster and investigates. guy is carrying loaded pistol.

Both of these idiots are going to get the mandatory sentence probably. Their lawyers are desperately looking for help.
You can believe whatever you want but these are facts. Plus the DA offices are desperate to show that they go after anyone regardless of where they're from to help combat arguments of bias against one group versus another.

Sorry to insert facts but we deserve to know the truth before we parrot nonsense.
 
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Len-2A Training

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You're entitled to your beliefs no matter how uninformed they are. But I deal in realities and am a guy that sees real people get launched and visits them in jail.

Here's two examples of a cases going on right now that the DA intends to incarcerate that the attorney has reached out to me for help:

case one
Client inherits a WWII pistol from deceased grandfather in Michigan. Client had a FID card, but let it lapse. Stores pistol and ammunition in a locked safe. He never uses or fires gun, keeps it only as sentimental keep sake from grand father. On wife’s urging he buries gun and bullets in locked safe on property to keep away from young childrens.
Some point later, client and his wife argue, he leaves household and goes to live in a friend’s cabin in Maine;
Wife obtains ex parte 209A order, which is served on Husband in Maine, and which includes language about surrendering any guns…
Husband has no way , no money to travel from N. Maine back to Reading to surrender gun, so he explains to Maine officers (who served him with RO order) where gun is.
Reading PD goes to property with metal detector and cannot find gun.
Husband returns to MA to face extension hearing on wife’s RO. Afterwards, he goes to residence and digs up safe with gun and bullets, still locked in safe, and delivers / surrenders to Reading PD.
53 days later, Reading PD files the above two charges against Husband and cites client’s “delay” in surrendering guns and ammunition.
Neil,

One part of the above shouldn't be allowed to happen wrt Bartley-Fox. MGL states that possession with an expired license is non-criminal, civil fine only. I know that police/DAs love to charge on it anyway with hopes that the judge/jury/public defender don't know about that exception. I testified for the defense in one such case and the judge (bench trial) dropped that charge.

I do understand that the police love to charge someone for not Immediately turning over everything . . . even waiting 10 minutes for person to call his/her attorney, but it certainly doesn't make it right.
 

nstassel

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Neil,

One part of the above shouldn't be allowed to happen wrt Bartley-Fox. MGL states that possession with an expired license is non-criminal, civil fine only. I know that police/DAs love to charge on it anyway with hopes that the judge/jury/public defender don't know about that exception. I testified for the defense in one such case and the judge (bench trial) dropped that charge.

I do understand that the police love to charge someone for not Immediately turning over everything . . . even waiting 10 minutes for person to call his/her attorney, but it certainly doesn't make it right.
true but his problem is the RO.
 

Mesatchornug

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Neil,

One part of the above shouldn't be allowed to happen wrt Bartley-Fox. MGL states that possession with an expired license is non-criminal, civil fine only. I know that police/DAs love to charge on it anyway with hopes that the judge/jury/public defender don't know about that exception. I testified for the defense in one such case and the judge (bench trial) dropped that charge.

I do understand that the police love to charge someone for not Immediately turning over everything . . . even waiting 10 minutes for person to call his/her attorney, but it certainly doesn't make it right.
tangent question: he's in possession of a handgun with an expired FID. Is it wise to pursue that direction?
 

Rob Boudrie

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or refuses to testify them often only the gun charge gets pleaded

tangent question: he's in possession of a handgun with an expired FID. Is it wise to pursue that direction?
I did not see anything in ntassel's narrative of the case that indicated unlicensed possession was charged.

The law does not allow possession of a handgun with only an FID, however, an assistant AG testified to the contrary in Federal court.
 
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