Decline and fall of the British Empire

[dwarven1]

Did you know that you can get arrested for having a Swiss Army Knife over there?

Now I'm really torn... I really did want to see England, but not even being able to have my SwissChamp in my pocket?

 

[Jeremiah]

Yeah, the way England has gone really freaked me out about gun control. It's hard to believe that, collectively, a country could be that passive and stupid.

 

[SnakeEye]

sounds like a great place to live......for criminals.
i work with a guy from England and he says the general criminal element over there just stab and beat poeple with knives and baseball bats instead to compensate. adapt improvise and overcome lol
and the more dangerous element of people im sure still have them just the same...

 

[Ray P]

The group-blog samizdata has a lot of discussion on British crime and laws on "self-defence". Just go to their Search & archive, pull down the menu, and look for "Self-defence & security."

I especially like the blog on banning large kitchen knives in the UK.

The info relating to self-defence laws, as in "what's legal & what's not", is mostly buried in articles about somebody's neighbor being killed during an armed robbery of a home.

The "Samis" are a bit of a self-rightous, prissy lot; but they do have an entertaining point of view. Most of the meat is not in the initial article, but in the follow-up comments.

 

[Jeremiah]

I work with a guy from England and he says the general criminal element over there just stab and beat poeple with knives and baseball bats instead to compensate.

That's just the thing. Gun control has completely failed to stop crime, and now they're criminalizing "knife culture". Obviously, gun control didn't Fail, it's just that it turns out that knives ALSO cause crime.

And, if they succeed with that, they'll criminalize "pointed-stick culture" and "club-like objects" and eventually be forced to outlaw tools of any sort...

 

[Ray P]

days of old

In decades past, I went in & out of Holy Loch Scotland on a regular basis; living on a US ship moored in UK waters. When we sailors would go ashore, we faced a mandatory search by MoD rent-a-cops. For some reason, they always missed finding my old Buck 110.

In retrospect, they could not have been that blind.

 

[mark056]

"And, if they succeed with that, they'll criminalize "pointed-stick culture" and "club-like objects" " J.

Well that is probably coming down the pike. Look at Australia as another example.

What happened in the UK clearly demonstrates what happens when decent, law abiding gun-owners went along with various proposals (referred to as "schemes" in British parlance) by the Home Secretary and law enforcement authorities. The sad story of British gun control goes back now almost 100 years. Although any paper constitution can be worth only the paper it is printed on, we, in America ought to get down on our knees every night and pray to whatever version of God we worship, and give thanks for a written bill of rights and a second amendment. (athiests can shout "Huzzah" or something equally joyous and declarative) Decade by decade, gun rights in Britain eroded under Britain's unwritten constitution.

In my opinion, our mission here in the United States is educating and general public about the lawful posession of firearms. Let us always remember too, that collectively the police are not our friends, remember, they have their weapons and isn't interesting now, how many more British Police Officers are now armed on a regular basis? To me that is both a sign and symptom: a sign of empowerment over the "proles" oops I mean the average subject, and a symptom that things are getting worse on that island-nation.

It is no accident that 1984 is set in Britain.

It can happen here too, maybe not today or tommorrow or even the next decade....but to reiterate, it took Britain almost one hundred years to get to where it is now.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Lynne]

I deleted your dupilcate post Mark.

Mother Mod

 

[Ray P]

That's just the thing. Gun control has completely failed to stop crime... Jeremiah

And gun crime in the UK is growing. It is almost frightening to quote the Sun, but they report the following:

an armed offence committed EVERY HOUR.
The number of firearms incidents has doubled in England and Wales since 1997.
Cases of attempted murder with firearms have also doubled to over 1,200 annually — more than three every day.
In the year up to June, 11,160 gun crimes were recorded, up five per cent on 2004.

 

[Lynne]

That's just the thing. Gun control has completely failed to stop crime... Jeremiah

And gun crime in the UK is growing. It is almost frightening to quote the Sun, but they report the following:

an armed offence committed EVERY HOUR.
The number of firearms incidents has doubled in England and Wales since 1997.
Cases of attempted murder with firearms have also doubled to over 1,200 annually — more than three every day.
In the year up to June, 11,160 gun crimes were recorded, up five per cent on 2004.

But heaven forbid they won't repeal the gun laws to allow people to defend themselves. I mean crime and murder rates just might go down. [roll]

 

[SnakeEye]

look at what happened to the Japanese after the end of the Samurai era, they prohibited swords and forbade the teachings of martial arts so that only the imperial army would be able to hold power and impose their will..
so the people disquised and adapted their techniques into folk dance, and their weapons were converted/disquised to be simple farm tools..

 

[Ray P]

But heaven forbid they won't repeal the gun laws to allow people to defend themselves. I mean crime and murder rates just might go down.

Right now, it LOOKS like the Brits are trying recover their lapsed common-law rights to self-defense within their own homes. BBC ran a poll/contest in which a member of parliament promised to sponsor whichever bill was voted most popular by the readers. Turns out they disgusted their MP by requesting the right to self defense within their own homes.

 

[Lynne]

look at what happened to the Japanese after the end of the Samurai era, they prohibited swords and forbade the teachings of martial arts so that only the imperial army would be able to hold power and impose their will..
so the people disquised and adapted their techniques into folk dance, and their weapons were converted/disquised to be simple farm tools..

That's how Tai Chi started.

 

[KMaurer]

Yeah, but remember that professional with that well coreographed sword display in "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? Didn't do much against a Webley, so I wouldn't want to be the one relegated to using clever moves against a Nambu or Arisaka (even if the guy holding it was dumb enough to get really close).

The move against firearms, and the restriction of arms to a class dedicated to serving the rulers goes back much earlier in Japanese history: "The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, short swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of unnecessary implements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to foment uprisings."
Toyotomi Hideyoshi (1536-1598), Shogun, Tensho 16, Seventh Month, 8th Day [August 29?, 1588] quoted in Sources of Japanese Tradition, Ryusaku Tsunoda, ed. (Columbia University Press, 1958), p.329


Alaistar Cook, were he still with us, would most like apply one of his early-70's observations to his own home country today: "I myself think I recognize here several of the symptoms that Edward Gibbons maintained were signs of the decline of Rome, and which arose not from external enemies but from inside the country itself. A mounting love of show and luxury. A widening gap between the very rich and the very poor. An obsession with sex. Freakishness in the arts masquerading as originality, and enthusiasm pretending to creativeness..."

Ken

 

[dwarven1]

Yeah, but remember that professional with that well coreographed sword display in "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? Didn't do much against a Webley

Actually, that scene was originally supposed to be a fight between sword and Indiana's whip. Harrison Ford was dealing with dysentery, and really had to go to the bathroom... so on one retake, he just hauls out his pistol and fires it. Director loved it so much that that's what made it into the film.

At least, that's the version I heard.

 

[Lynne]

Actually, that scene was originally supposed to be a fight between sword and Indiana's whip. Harrison Ford was dealing with dysentery, and really had to go to the bathroom... so on one retake, he just hauls out his pistol and fires it. Director loved it so much that that's what made it into the film.

At least, that's the version I heard.

I heard that too, that he went off script. Great scene.