Death Penalty Opponents?

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Probably more here than you think.

I'm not opposed to killing people who are guilty of heinous crimes. I am leery of giving the government that kind of power. Although I don't lose sleep over it.
 
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The real injustice is when the victims and families of these animals have to pay taxes to house them, feed them and give them unending legal defense for the rest of their lives.
 

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Can't read the story. I tried, but had to shut it down when I got to the first mention of them strapping the kid down.

The death penalty is too quick and painless for this case.
 
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Probably more here than you think.

I'm not opposed to killing people who are guilty of heinous crimes. I am leery of giving the government that kind of power. Although I don't lose sleep over it.
Heh, I'm opposed to the state as a matter of principal. Ideal method of execution is via avenger of blood.
 
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tons on here against it. Not a lot of people in the libertarian sphere are fans of the .gov being the only ones allowed to legally murder people.

Personally I go back and forth on it. While I know it's not a deterrent, some crimes just call for the perp to be removed from the planet. On the other hand, one innocent person being executed really does cause a problem and makes the whole institution questionable.

There's also the "death is too easy" (especially with lethal injection) argument. I don't think someone who rapes/tortures/kills should get off with a sedative to peacefully put them to sleep.
 
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Can't read the story. I tried, but had to shut it down when I got to the first mention of them strapping the kid down.

The death penalty is too quick and painless for this case.
It was horrible what they did, I cannot imagine a human being looking at their child and being able to do what they did. As a parent, one of the most terrible things I can imagine is being unable to feed my kids and having to watch them starve.
 
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I am not necessarily opposed to the death penalty. I think the evidence has to be irrefutable.

In this case if they impose a sentence and it's the death penalty they need to include the administrators at the state agencies that let this go.
 
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tons on here against it. Not a lot of people in the libertarian sphere are fans of the .gov being the only ones allowed to legally murder people.

Personally I go back and forth on it. While I know it's not a deterrent, some crimes just call for the perp to be removed from the planet. On the other hand, one innocent person being executed really does cause a problem and makes the whole institution questionable.

There's also the "death is too easy" (especially with lethal injection) argument. I don't think someone who rapes/tortures/kills should get off with a sedative to peacefully put them to sleep.
You don't need to have a government to have a de facto death penalty. Let me give a possible an-cap compatible version.

No governments exist, protection corporations provide security via payments (protection as insurance more or less). When someone commits murder, their protection company expells them and no other protection companies take them on. Thus the person becomes what we used to call an "outlaw" and the family of the victim can kill them without penalty.
 

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I'm not opposed to killing people who are guilty of heinous crimes. I am leery of giving the government that kind of power. Although I don't lose sleep over it.
Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I'm sure mistakes are made, and guys who are innocent of one particular crime (but guilty of many others) get put down on occasion.
 
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You don't need to have a government to have a de facto death penalty. Let me give a possible an-cap compatible version.

No governments exist, protection corporations provide security via payments (protection as insurance more or less). When someone commits murder, their protection company expells them and no other protection companies take them on. Thus the person becomes what we used to call an "outlaw" and the family of the victim can kill them without penalty.
Wouldn't that result in open season on poor people?
 

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It was horrible what they did, I cannot imagine a human being looking at their child and being able to do what they did. As a parent, one of the most terrible things I can imagine is being unable to feed my kids and having to watch them starve.
I hadn't read that part. [sad2]
 
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Wouldn't that result in open season on poor people?
Only if protection services are that expensive. No reason to think they would cost much at all.

In particular, all the people who claim to care about the poor could also purchase protection for them.


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I don't believe that the .gov should have the power of life and death over its citizens. It breaks my heart to hear about stories like this....I have to wonder just how ****ed the state agencies have to be that this poor little boy's abuse was reported time and again and nothing was done to help him. It's a tragedy. If we are going to have a death penalty, I feel the same way as some of the other folks who have responded in this thread: let it be personal. If a person kills or seriously harms someone their family should be able to exact revenge upon them.
 
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Good God, that poor boy. That is a numbing story. I am ok with the death penalty in cases like this where there is absolutely zero doubt of who committed this atrocity.

That said, I agree that I don't trust the govt. and the justice system with that kind of power. In this day and age of electronics almost anyone can be "caught on video" doing just about anything someone with the right connections wants them to be seen doing.
 

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I'm not a fan of the death penalty for the same reasons mclina gave. But if they are caught red-handed, all bets are off. That's the key for me. You have to be caught red-handed. If so, I'm good with the ultimate penalty.
 
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I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. I'm not against the idea of a death penalty. This example is about as perfect as it comes. I'd be perfectly fine with killling then repeatedly if that was possible. They deserve the literal worse thing imaginable.

What I do have an issue with isn't the death penalty itself, but the fact it can and IS IN FACT misused by the state. I never want to see an innocent person put to death.

So that really leaves a bit of a conundrum. How can we ensure people like in this story get what they deserve, death, yet people innocent aren't mistakenly led to the gallows? Without error? I'm not sure that's possible. Which leaves me conflicted.
 

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Two names: Sal Sicari and Charles Jaynes... If THEY weren't put to death for what they did to Jeffrey Curley?.. then there shouldn't even be a death penalty...And I guess it's a good thing the Constitution prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment" cuz I'd be the first one in line to torture the scumbags...(Jeffrey's dad worked with my brother and I know this story well...Too well, actually, cuz I literally would wanna eviscerate the two maggots if you gave me the opportunity).. .
Meanwhile, I'm in work making a living and paying taxes.. for three square meals for Jaynes and Sicari. Every day.
 
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Maybe there needs to be another standard. If found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, for the death penalty to apply you must also be found guilty with absolutely no doubt, which requires some direct evidence, like video. I'm not really sure.
 

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I go back and forth also. Don't like the state having that power. The thought of someone innocent getting put down by the state is really repulsive.

However, people like this and the filth that kidnapped, raped and murdered Jeffrey Curley deserve a special treatment that is currently unconstitutional, IMO.
 

TLB

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Maybe there needs to be another standard. If found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, for the death penalty to apply you must also be found guilty with absolutely no doubt, which requires some direct evidence, like video. I'm not really sure.
This is one way to handle it, but I would not want a confession to satisfy that standard - I believe they can be coerced, especially for less intelligent defendants under serious duress.
 
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It is my belief that when these people eventually die in prison they will not be going to a happy place. They will pay for what they have done, it just may be after they die, and then it will be for all eternity and it will be worse than anything that can be done to them on earth.

As far as taxpayers paying for life in prison, that could be mitigated if we didn't give them cable tv, gyms, college education, legal help, etc. Put them in a small cell with a bed, blanket, and a toilet. Let them out to eat bread, water, some cheap protein like chicken/eggs, some vegetables and that's it. No desert, no coffee, nothing fancy. Let them outside on occasion if convenient. Give them books if they get bored, yes books still exist.

Here's a thought, if they want to eat and they are physically able make them work for their food. Like the old days of making license plates, working on railroads, etc. Not saying to be cruel but there is no reason they can't produce something of value to repay society for feeding them. Stop treating criminals better than we treat our elderly and veterans and maybe it won't cost so much.
 

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I'm guessing not too many on here are opposed to the death penalty. For those of you who are, can you at least agree that the perpetrators of this crime deserve to die? They don't deserve life in prison. They just need to be dead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-pigs-state-agencies-failed-him-says-lawsuit/
I would say I am against the Death penalty but that has no bearing on what I would do in the case that this was my child or niece/nephew. If someone does something so reprehensible that they need to no longer exist on this earth then that's something that I would have to satisfy my own standard and then answer for it if I was wrong. I don't like the government making mistakes on my behalf.

Would I sit a bunch of their fellow inmates down, pull on their heart strings about how they are in prison and not with their beloved children, and then walk them through what the people in this article did to a young child? Yep! Would I be in favor of the government doing that? Uh hell no!
 
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I would say I am against the Death penalty but that has no bearing on what I would do in the case that this was my child or niece/nephew. If someone does something so reprehensible that they need to no longer exist on this earth then that's something that I would have to satisfy my own standard and then answer for it if I was wrong. I don't like the government making mistakes on my behalf.

Would I sit a bunch of their fellow inmates down, pull on their heart strings about how they are in prison and not with their beloved children, and then walk them through what the people in this article did to a young child? Yep! Would I be in favor of the government doing that? Uh hell no!
I guess I should have worded things better. Some people are opposed to government executions, I more or less am. Some people are opposed to the idea of someone dying for their crimes, and that's what I was getting at.


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I guess I should have worded things better. Some people are opposed to government executions, I more or less am. Some people are opposed to the idea of someone dying for their crimes, and that's what I was getting at.


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Yeah I have no problem with someone dying for their crimes. These people sure as hell should.

To support the death penalty under our current system, I need certainty of guilt. My major hangup is the .gov having the power to kill people. Aside from that, assuming certainty of guilt I'd support the death penalty for kiddie diddlers, rapists, and all 1st degree murderers.
 
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