Dear Second Amendment Foundation,

[milktree]

Please stop sending me stuff. I don't want a belt buckle. I don't want a plaque thanking me for my donation. I want you to spend the money I gave you paying court fees and lawyers and doing what you're really good at. That's why I give you money.

But most of all, don't send me "free" DVDs with a guilt letter that I should really give you $12.95 for it, and sign up for the rest of the series. You're not Publishers Clearing House, you're a professional organization dedicated to preserving and restoring our Second Amendment rights. Pick some [strike]less[/strike] non sleazy, more professional way of raising money. When you do stuff like that I feel like you think I'm a sucker, an idiot, or both.

I'm not sending your DVD back, and I'm not going to pay for it.

I'll give you money when you ask for money in a way that doesn't feel like a scam, and only as long as you continue to do the work you've dedicated yourself to do. Don't turn into a money raising organization like the NRA.

Thanks,

-Milktree

 

[MassMark]

Sounds like they're going to the 'NRA School Of Member Pissing Off'... If their cheap junk is made in China, then they've graduated at the top of their class...

 

[twogunwilly]

Take a hard look at what SAF has achieved for you. Anyway they can raise funds is just a positive for us all. Keep your $12.95 or use it for a crying towel. FWIW all contributions to SAF are tax deductible meaning a whole bunch of folks get an additional bang for their bucks.

 

[MassMark]

Take a hard look at what SAF has achieved for you. Anyway they can raise funds is just a positive for us all. Keep your $12.95 or use it for a crying towel. FWIW all contributions to SAF are tax deductible meaning a whole bunch of folks get an additional bang for their bucks.

There's fund raising, (for) and then there's shilling crap to your members, (against)... I'll admit, that the SAF has not reached the NRA level, but hope they never do....

 

[yanici]

I think that the way that GOAL handles the extra fund raisers is in good taste and surely much more economical.

 

[drgrant]

Let's also bear in mind that some of that junk may not necessarily be paid for with SAF member funds, but gun junk marketers use SAF and the NRA as conduits to push their crap through. SAF is probably getting some sort of a kickback for it, but I don't know what the exact deals would be.

-Mike

 

[milktree]

Take a hard look at what SAF has achieved for you. Anyway they can raise funds is just a positive for us all. Keep your $12.95 or use it for a crying towel. FWIW all contributions to SAF are tax deductible meaning a whole bunch of folks get an additional bang for their bucks.

You're missing my point entirely.

I'm happy to give SAF money for the work they do; and I do give them money.

But it seriously chaps my ass when I get stupid crap in the mail they're hawking with guilt trips.

When I first gave them money I did the "lifetime member" thing, it wasn't that much money and I wanted to help fund their work. But when I got a bunch of stuff in the mail (including a belt buckle and a plaque) I wondered if they were spending the money wisely. I don't need a plaque to show how much of an enthusiast I am. Where would I mount it? I certainly don't need a big brass belt buckle without a belt (buy your own belt for the free buckle!). I'd rather they sent a nice letter that is also the "your donation is tax deductible" note, and spend whatever those chotchkies cost on pursuing 2nd amendment court cases.

I also don't care if they sell SAF swag in an online store, I'm sure someone wants a belt buckle.

However, unsolicited stuff with a request for payment, is ridiculous. I'm not going to reward that behavior.

 

[milktree]

Let's also bear in mind that some of that junk may not necessarily be paid for with SAF member funds, but gun junk marketers use SAF and the NRA as conduits to push their crap through. SAF is probably getting some sort of a kickback for it, but I don't know what the exact deals would be.

This doesn't appear to be a third party thing. It's got 2AF branding all over it, it has my member number in multiple places, and no indication that it's from anywhere other than 2AF

It's especially bad/sleazy because it's filled with danger-phrases like, "no obligation", and "cancel any time"

There's lots of language to suggest that I have to either sign up for the DVD of the month club or send the unwanted and un-asked for DVD back. There's a single line that says in a somewhat misleading way that because I didn't ask for it, I can consider it a gift, as if they're doing me some big favor by letting me keep the thing I didn't want and didn't order. Never mind that Federal laws makes it illegal to send something to someone and then demand payment. If you didn't order it, it's a gift. Period.

I'm irritated at them for stooping to a level of misleading and somewhat coercive marketing and fundraising. They're not selling amazing kitchen gadgets at low low prices on late night television that can be had for only seven easy payments of $19.95 (plus shipping and handling). They are not Billy Mays or Ron Popeil. They shouldn't use those tactics.

 

[strangenh]

Dude, 2AF is doing great work. But the founder also owns a couple of direct marketing businesses. What did you expect?

 

[Lignum Vitea]

Been a SAF member for a while now, haven't heard a peep from them since the initial welcome packet. My pile of NRA junk mail is feeling lonely WTF.

 

[richc]

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I try to donate anonymously. I hate it when the organizations come back begging for more in sleazy ways.

If you want to politely remind me of the good you're doing that'll get me far more motivated than making offers that make me feel like I'm being played.

 

[Sputa Arms]

Take a hard look at what SAF has achieved for you. Anyway they can raise funds is just a positive for us all. Keep your $12.95 or use it for a crying towel. FWIW all contributions to SAF are tax deductible meaning a whole bunch of folks get an additional bang for their bucks.

Wow!! TWOgun did you even read his post?!?!..

He DIDN'T say anything about what SAF does for us..

I agree with MILK.. No one Wants a belt Buckle or a Patch or a sniffle rag that says 2a on it..

We give them money to fight for us.. Not for Propaganda..

Tax deductible?? Where did that come from? What does that have to do with the price of TEA in china?

Now Unbunch your panties Please

 

[MST_2009]

Dear NRA,
Please see the above note.

 

[milktree]

Dude, 2AF is doing great work. But the founder also owns a couple of direct marketing businesses. What did you expect?

Really? You think direct mail marketing and 2A legal challenges have a lot of overlap?

I expect that the founder would keep the two separate.

 

[twogunwilly]

Wow!! TWOgun did you even read his post?

Sure did. A couple of times actually. I read it as discouragement for anyone considering joining. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[JimB]

there isn't much time between mailings from the NRA, extend your membership,

sign up a friend or family member, enclosed are petitions to your legislators,

donate 12 22 or 45 bucks..... i guess they do what works otherwise they

wouldn't do it.

 

[Lip]

Not a dime until they focus only on citizens.

 

[Ink]

Why not call or write to them and tell them your position? They won't hear about it here. If enough people voiced their opinion......

 

[strangenh]

Really? You think direct mail marketing and 2A legal challenges have a lot of overlap?

I expect that the founder would keep the two separate.

Why don't you try googling the founder...

 

[xtry51]

Dear NRA,
Please see the above note.

What the OP said and this.

Spend the money getting our rights back.

 

[crak]

Why not call or write to them and tell them your position? They won't hear about it here. If enough people voiced their opinion......

The NRA stops sending crap if you take 30 seconds to call them and have the following conversation.

"Hi. My name is X and my member number is Y. Can you guys please stop sending me crap?"
"Sure thing, no problem. Thank you for your continued membership."

I'm sure SAF will do the same.

 

[milktree]

Why don't you try googling the founder...

It's not that I don't believe you, I do. I still expect a professional to keep his businesses separate.

It honestly never occurred to me to google the founder to see what other businesses he's in, it shouldn't matter.

 

[drgrant]

This doesn't appear to be a third party thing. It's got 2AF branding all over it, it has my member number in multiple places, and no indication that it's from anywhere other than 2AF

Yes, that's the whole point of the branding is to push crap.

I agree that it looks bad, and it's obnoxious to the members, though. I think it deters membership, even if you can make the argument that SAF member funds are not paying for the crap in question.

-Mike

 

[RadiCS]

They actually called my house to solicit more money from me...

 

[milktree]

They actually called my house to solicit more money from me...

Mine too. I told the woman, "I don't give away money, or promise to give away money, over the phone. Period, full stop. If you send me something in the mail I'll consider it." Which they did. I'll be writing a check, with a note that says something like, "stop sending me crap, don't call me." but in more polite language.

 

[Broc]

Mine too. I told the woman, "I don't give away money, or promise to give away money, over the phone. Period, full stop. If you send me something in the mail I'll consider it." Which they did. I'll be writing a check, with a note that says something like, "stop sending me crap, don't call me." but in more polite language.

so, you tell her to mail you crap, then you complain that they mail you crap? WTF dude.


about the NRA: isnt everyone a member of the NRA just for the gun insurance? i know i am.
They ddont even fight for MA, all the crap i get on the mail is about other states. When GOAL starts offering gun insurance like the NRA, i will cancel my NRA membership.

I renew, and a month later they start asking me to renew again. then they send me a letter saying that if i renew today, my gun insurance will go up to $3000, then i see online that you dont need to renew, you just call them and thats what i did.

 

[joeendris]

When GOAL starts offering gun insurance like the NRA, i will cancel my NRA membership.

+1

 

[CLMN]

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I try to donate anonymously. I hate it when the organizations come back begging for more in sleazy ways.

Exactly right! It's a lesson I learned long ago!

Whether the donation is to the NRA, GOAL, SAF, the politician of your choice or to the charity of your choice... ALWAYS make it anonymous. To do otherwise is to invite endless begging mailings and e-mails... the cost of which does nothing but dilute your donation(s).

One more interesting point: I recently contacted GOAL to ask if it was possible to re-establish my GOAL membership without my name and address subsequently being released to other organizations (especially the NRA). Apparently it could not be done as I wished since they never bothered to call me back. If anyone here knows different or has been able to do that, please post or PM me the details.

CLMN

 

[Tara]

Exactly right! It's a lesson I learned long ago!

Whether the donation is to the NRA, GOAL, SAF, the politician of your choice or to the charity of your choice... ALWAYS make it anonymous. To do otherwise is to invite endless begging mailings and e-mails... the cost of which does nothing but dilute your donation(s).

One more interesting point: I recently contacted GOAL to ask if it was possible to re-establish my GOAL membership without my name and address subsequently being released to other organizations (especially the NRA). Apparently it could not be done as I wished since they never bothered to call me back. If anyone here knows different or has been able to do that, please post or PM me the details.

CLMN

Who did you leave that message for? I'd be the one to handle that and I definitely did not get a message regarding your issue.

To answer your question, we don't share your info with the NRA or anyone else. So yes, it's possible.
The only way the NRA would get your info through us would be if you were to take the Basic Pistol course or the Reloading course and you personally filled in your address on the NRA course report when you signed in for the class. We make it a point to let the students know that if they put their address on there, the NRA will send you stuff. If someone forgets to sign in, I just put their name and leave the address field blank.

 

[CLMN]

Who did you leave that message for? I'd be the one to handle that and I definitely did not get a message regarding your issue.

To answer your question, we don't share your info with the NRA or anyone else. So yes, it's possible.
The only way the NRA would get your info through us would be if you were to take the Basic Pistol course or the Reloading course and you personally filled in your address on the NRA course report when you signed in for the class. We make it a point to let the students know that if they put their address on there, the NRA will send you stuff. If someone forgets to sign in, I just put their name and leave the address field blank.

Fair enough. I'll be calling you shortly.

CLMN