Dealer won't transfer for liability reasons?

[milktree]

I won a handgun on Gunbroker, but the seller claims that he can't find a dealer that will accept it then ship it to my FFL, for "liability reasons".

??? Huh? Am I missing something stupid here? What possible liability reasons could there be to accept a gun from someone, put it into their books, then transfer&ship to another FFL? Nobody is making any claims of ... anything, other than the seller.

The seller says he'll just put it in a box and ship it to my FFL with a copy of his driver's license.

I realize that's totally, 100% legal, but I like to keep my FFL happy, and he prefers accepting things from other FFLs, so that's what I try to do.

I suspect the seller has exactly one gun dealer he works with, and that one is being a ninny who doesn't understand the laws (or liability) and the seller doesn't care to look around for another FFL.

Thoughts?

 

[davemata]

My thoughts are I would work with an FFL that respected the color of my money and worked within the law and not some perceived belief in their law education - that could be why I don't have a regular ffl.

I'd tell them to take the transfer or I'd find a competitor.

 

[jenlynn724]

I think it's kind of funny that you think his FFL is ridiculous for not shipping it, but your FFL won't accept it any other way..LOL Find yourself a local FFL that will accept it..

 

[italianppf2]

there's a guy down the cape that will get it for ya. pm me and i'll give you his number.

 

[Jose]

I won a handgun on Gunbroker, but the seller claims that he can't find a dealer that will accept it then ship it to my FFL, for "liability reasons".

??? Huh? Am I missing something stupid here? What possible liability reasons could there be to accept a gun from someone, put it into their books, then transfer&ship to another FFL? Nobody is making any claims of ... anything, other than the seller.

The seller says he'll just put it in a box and ship it to my FFL with a copy of his driver's license.

I realize that's totally, 100% legal, but I like to keep my FFL happy, and he prefers accepting things from other FFLs, so that's what I try to do.

I suspect the seller has exactly one gun dealer he works with, and that one is being a ninny who doesn't understand the laws (or liability) and the seller doesn't care to look around for another FFL.

Thoughts?

My thought is that your FFL is a tool for refusing to accept legal shipments from individuals in accordance with GCA 68.

 

[drgrant]

The seller needs to find better dealers to work with.

-Mike

 

[Underwhere]

I won a handgun on Gunbroker, but the seller claims that he can't find a dealer that will accept it then ship it to my FFL, for "liability reasons".

??? Huh? Am I missing something stupid here? What possible liability reasons could there be to accept a gun from someone, put it into their books, then transfer&ship to another FFL? Nobody is making any claims of ... anything, other than the seller.

The seller says he'll just put it in a box and ship it to my FFL with a copy of his driver's license.

I realize that's totally, 100% legal, but I like to keep my FFL happy, and he prefers accepting things from other FFLs, so that's what I try to do.

I suspect the seller has exactly one gun dealer he works with, and that one is being a ninny who doesn't understand the laws (or liability) and the seller doesn't care to look around for another FFL.

Thoughts?

You want him to take on the burden of finding an FFL to ship it, yet you aren't taking on the burden of finding another FFL to receive it?

Your FFL won't handle a perfectly legal transaction and you've passed that onto the seller. In my opinion you need to find a new FFL.

If I sold a gun and someone tried to make me look around for an FFL to ship a gun, I'd just look for a new buyer.

 

[NHDaveK]

I think it's kind of funny that you think his FFL is ridiculous for not shipping it, but your FFL won't accept it any other way..LOL Find yourself a local FFL that will accept it..

X2

There is nothing wrong legally for him to ship the gun to a FFL !

 

[piman]

Are you paying for the s&h? Local ffl charges for shipping are in the $50 range iirc so if the seller is paying, he might well be balking at that.

Did he agree to this before you bid? As per gun broker rules you are supposed to agree to all this before you bid. So this could get ugly for you as well. I ask because once I had a seller who explicitly told me he wouldn't ship using a ffl. I wasn't super motivated so I dropped it. Given how uniformly the ffls I usually work with said they only accepted shipments from ffls I thought it was based on some law. The other comments here are educating... I would find another ffl if I were you...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[piman]

The seller needs to find better dealers to work with.

-Mike

Seller is well within his rights to set terms of the sale. On gb the buyer needs to make sure he can take ownership of the item in case he wins it. So in this case the OP should have confirmed seller would use a ffl to ship prior to bidding if that was important to op imho.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[NHDaveK]

Shipping rules

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?faqid=1118

"Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]"

 

[Remsport Mfg]

Is this a compliancy issue? Is this a gun the Mass. FFL can transfer to you?

 

[davemata]

Yup, sounds like the OP needs a new FFL stat.

 

[Terminator03]

Is this a compliancy issue? Is this a gun the Mass. FFL can transfer to you?

This is a good question. OP, did you verify that the gun you purchased was "approved" for sale in MA before you bought it? Even if you find a FFL willing to accept from an individual, you may still be screwed if he can't legally transfer it to you. If this is a non issue, then I concur with what everyone else says about finding a new FFL.

 

[davemata]

This is a good question. OP, did you verify that the gun you purchased was "approved" for sale in MA before you bought it? Even if you find a FFL willing to accept from an individual, you may still be screwed if he can't legally transfer it to you. If this is a non issue, then I concur with what everyone else says about finding a new FFL.

Approved for sale has nothing to do with used arms, unless it's covered under the AWB.

(Although I could be wrong, or the OP just bought Robocop's handgun.)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Approved for sale has nothing to do with used arms, unless it's covered under the AWB.

(Although I could be wrong, or the OP just bought Robocop's handgun.)

FAIL!

Better go back and do some reading on MGLs and handgun transfers!

 

[USMA-82]

Approved for sale has nothing to do with used arms, unless it's covered under the AWB.

You're kidding, right? Wow, you almost got me there...

But please be careful - the OP may have taken you seriously.

*

 

[milktree]

I think it's kind of funny that you think his FFL is ridiculous for not shipping it, but your FFL won't accept it any other way..LOL Find yourself a local FFL that will accept it..

....

Yea, good point. That is pretty funny. I didn't even think of that.

To be clear, my guy *will* accept it, he'd just rather get it from another FFL.

 

[Acme.Armament]

What gun are you having transfered? Hanguns by law have to go from FFL to FFL when crossing state line.

ETA: Misunderstood the OP's sellers situation. The seller may ship to a FFL holder in another state a give a copy of the state licence to own the firearm in that state. FFL dealers may only ship handguns across state lines to another FFL holder.

 

[BE4TNUT]

The "liability" the FFL is probably referring to, is he is liable to not make money from just doing a transfer, and is liable to make more money to refuse to do it and hope you buy a gun from him.

+1 for finding a new FFL pronto!

 

[milktree]

You want him to take on the burden of finding an FFL to ship it, yet you aren't taking on the burden of finding another FFL to receive it?

Your FFL won't handle a perfectly legal transaction and you've passed that onto the seller. In my opinion you need to find a new FFL.

If I sold a gun and someone tried to make me look around for an FFL to ship a gun, I'd just look for a new buyer.

It never got to the "not willing to" part. I asked if he would send it through an FFL (and offered to pay for any cost difference) and he said, (paraphrased) "My FFL doesn't ship because of liability reasons." I googled and I think I found which dealer he must be using, because when I called (to try to find a shop near the seller who would) I was told the same thing, but, (and this is kinda weird too) that dealer is perfectly willing to accept shipments and transfer to individuals.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What gun are you having transfered? Hanguns by law have to go[STRIKE] from FFL [/STRIKE]to FFL when crossing state line.

FIFY

Just because many FFLs pretend that the law requires ONLY FFL to FFL transfers across state lines, BATFE has made it very clear that this is NOT required by law. Dealers are free to put whatever restrictions they want on the deal . . . just like "discretion" and "suitability" for chiefs issuing LTCs . . . but that doesn't make it "THE LAW!"

 

[Jose]

What gun are you having transfered? Hanguns by law have to go from FFL to FFL when crossing state line.

That is incorrect.

A non-licensee can ship a handgun via common carrier to a dealer in the buyer's state of residence. IF the handgun is to be mailed via USPS, then you would be correct. If the pistol is shipped via UPS, FedEx, or some other common carrier, then you are not correct so far as it pertains federal law.

 

[milktree]

Is this a compliancy issue? Is this a gun the Mass. FFL can transfer to you?

Nah, it's not that. Even if it was that, why would the seller's FFL care? They take some money, make a shipment, and it's not their problem anymore.

Let's pretended I wanted, bid on, and won a new Springfield Armory XD with [strike]high cap[/strike] full cap magazines, which would *clearly* be in violation of the MA AWB and not on any of the rosters. Then what? Well, I'd give money for the gun and shipping to the seller, who would pay the shipper/FFL, who would ship it to my FFL. My FFL can't give it to me, so he holds onto it. Then someone has to deal with it. My FFL can offer to sell it for me on consignment or on Gunbroker again (for a fee, of course), or I can try to arrange with the seller to take it back (who will charge me a restocking fee, and I'll pay shipping) But the shipping FFL doesn't have any responsibility, morally, legally, financially, or otherwise. The seller is done, he made no false claims about it, he delivered as promised, so he's in the clear too.

 

[Kevlar]

Approved for sale has nothing to do with used arms, unless it's covered under the AWB.

Huh? Not sure if serious.

What gun are you having transfered? Hanguns by law have to go from FFL to FFL when crossing state line.

No, it doesn't (18 USC (a)(2)(A)), and the fact you are a FFL, and believe this to be true, concerns me.



ETA: I see Len and Jose beat me to it.

 

[milktree]

The "liability" the FFL is probably referring to, is he is liable to not make money from just doing a transfer, and is liable to make more money to refuse to do it and hope you buy a gun from him.

+1 for finding a new FFL pronto!

No no, the FFL who's worried about liability is in another state, so I can't buy from him anyway.

 

[drgrant]

Is this a compliancy issue? Is this a gun the Mass. FFL can transfer to you?

Not relevant here, I suspect. Anyone doing GB transfers is usually smart enough to bounce it off their local before pressing the buy button, at least on a handgun.

-Mike

 

[SSShooter]

Just find another local FFL that will accept the shipment from an individual and be done with it. Way less hassle, and no need to waste money on a shipping FFL.

What area are you in? Maybe we can point you in the right direction.

 

[milktree]

Just find another local FFL that will accept the shipment from an individual and be done with it. Way less hassle, and no need to waste money on a shipping FFL.

What area are you in? Maybe we can point you in the right direction.

I'm "metro west" of Boston, but I work in New Hampshire, so northerly is also convenient.

There's more than one factor going into FFL choice though. Mostly the FFL thing isn't an issue. I like this guy, he's generally easy to deal with, and that's worth something. FFL fees are also a factor, plus the hours they're open, etc...

so, if there's a place that charges $20 for transfers, has a very flexible understanding of MA laws, accepts shipments from anyone, and is open all the time, I'd love to know about him!

 

[SSShooter]

I'm "metro west" of Boston, but I work in New Hampshire, so northerly is also convenient.

Sorry, that's not my region, but others may be able to help.

There's more than one factor going into FFL choice though. Mostly the FFL thing isn't an issue. I like this guy, he's generally easy to deal with, and that's worth something. FFL fees are also a factor, plus the hours they're open, etc...

I'm sorry, but I still don't see how not accepting a shipment from an individual is "easy to deal with". I admire your loyalty and believe strongly in supporting good local businesses, but this FFL has put up an unnecessary roadblock here. It's his business and I fully support his right to do so, but I also fully support your right to take your business elsewhere.