CZ Bren 805 S1 Thoughts & Changes

Whiskeywon

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Brace yourself this is a long one.
I noticed that I have seen a number of questions on the forum regarding this rifle in comparison to other AR15 alternatives and of course the AR/AK platforms. So as titled I have a CZ 805 that I picked up over a Scar-L (just doesn't have the same pull as the H) This is just a post covering a bit of thoughts, experiences that I have had, access to parts others are working on, & changes I have made or shall be making. I do plan on updating any larger changes or new products that become available. Beginning photo of mostly stock configuration:
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I'll start by saying that after about a thousand rounds through Scars (really not much) and about 3000~ rounds through my Bren so far as my weekly rifle that gets brought out for actual practice. (Hoping to run it through some 2G at some point) I think both rifles are great, while they aren't exactly improvements as much as lateral options to AR-15s they are both great alternatives which has been pretty well established. I'll be drawing comparisons to both platforms naturally and maybe a few others (ACR, SL8, and such)

Getting into the rifle though the basic pros and cons are pretty simple.
Pros:
Build Quality
Durability
Reliability
Accurate
Trigger
Ease of disassembly
Modular
Weight*
Ergonomics*
Price*
Cons:
Weight*
Ergonomics*
Price*
Currently lacking in third party support

So just to delve briefly into the details specifically listed.
This rifle seems as though CZ built it with love and care. All joking aside the build quality in many ways matches or exceeds that of the Scar and comparable ARs.
In the few thousand rounds that I have put through the rifle so far I have yet to experience a single failure running p-mags, GI, and steel FN FNC magazines with ammo ranging from Wolf 55gr to 75gr HPBT Hornady. The barrel is 16.2" chrome-lined with the 1:7" twist for those wishing to shoot the heavier bullets. It uses the gas system derived from the AR-18, just like pretty much all multi-lug rotating bolt short-stroke gas systems. Being a Massachusetts resident I cannot really comment on this rifle being suppressed, but I imagine that it suppresses just like any other pistol rifle, which is pretty well. It does come with the factory muzzle brake on 1/2x28 muzzle thread. Finding that as far as brakes go it isn't the most offensive for concussive blast.
The trigger out of the box requires nothing to be done to it to satisfy most shooters. It is a smooth stage up with a clean and deliberate break with my rifle registering after a few weight tests at 4.75-5lbs Don't get me wrong it isn't Timney or Elftmann, but it is better than any pretty much any AR out of box or any other modern military rifle out of box. Accuracy really so far has ranged as much as well. I've gotten between 1 1/2 & 2 MOA out of good ammo leaning more towards 2 with higher quality 62gr and 3 to 4 out of junk ammo. I'll post some targets from my next range trip since the thought completely evaded me before thinking about making this post. It''ll vary from what you throw through it and you as the shooter naturally. So far I've run iron sights for the first couple hundred rounds, then switched over to an ACOG w/ RMR donated from another rifle (which has gone back to that rifle) and now I'm playing around with the Luepold LCO/DEVO that I picked up last second before they discontinued it so a little variation, but for the immediate future I have the LCO on it just to test some weight ideas. At the end of the day this isn't a purpose built precision rifle, it's a combat rifle with a pencil barrel and a excellent factory mil-spec 2-stage trigger.
The durability of this rifle stems from both the excessive nature of it's frame and choice of materials. This was a rifle that was clearly made for a larger caliber (much in the same vain as the Scar) seeing as there were lines setup for a 308 model and 7.62x39 available to other countries' military forces. Since all these rifles sharing the same chassis, it's no wonder it's a bit overbuilt for 5.56, but not cripplingly so. The rifle weighs in at 8.7~ lbs with a loaded GI magazine (used two different scales that averaged 8.7) which is a bit on the hefty side. This also includes the factory iron sights and no sling. It's not milled AK weight by any means, but it definitely isn't quite as light AR15 by any means either. The factory rifle is the slightest bit front heavy, but IMO is negligible and balances exactly like the Scar. The ACR, in comparison, with it's gas system and monstrous barrel, is front heavy. That being said we'll be going far more in-depth on weight and balance later.
Being a rifle that was designed to be multi-caliber it does have a modular* (we'll come back to that *) chassis. The lower receiver is two separate pieces that held together with square joints in the material and a retaining pin that has zero play in the system. So that is good. It allows you to replace the magwell and pistol grip assembly. As more caliber conversions (which are already made for other country service groups) become market available you'll be able to swap that out. Alternatively even at 5.56 you can swap the magwell out for the European style of magazine well. Which uses a rock back and seat method with a paddle release for magazine release. I do have one on order and it should be arriving sometime in the next week or two if all goes right. As for the pistol grip it does house the trigger assembly and has replaceable back straps. *Yes, unfortunately this gun does not have an immediately replaceable pistol grip apart from the back strap. The rifle takes down from two disassembly pins (Personally I replaced them with the push button pins that KNS offers)
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though that allow you to break the rifle down for basic cleaning as fast as an AR, but takes an additional 2-3 minutes to completely disassemble as pictured below.
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Cleaning this rifle is about as easy as you'll ever expect from a modern rifle. Which it should be.
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I suppose that's one way to make sure morons don't lose their pins?
 
The ergonomics on this rifle are both a plus and minus in the sense that if you like the AR15 you'll mostly like this gun. But at the same time if you like the AR15, you'll also dislike this gun. I'll start with the fact that despite having the bolt hold open built into the lower receiver, the rifle does not have a bolt release. The issue has been addressed with the second iteration of the rifle, but may be a deal breaker for some. I find you barely even need to apply pressure to the charging handle to release so it doesn't bother me since I have experience with other rifles that don't have it either. The magazine release itself is easy to actuate with either your offhand or your trigger finger on your right hand. Though I'd like to see them release the magwell as a replacement part on their website with the bolt release included and being that it's CZ they very well might. The rifle is nearly completely ambidextrous. The only components that are not are the charging handle, which still can be swapped to the preferred side and the bolt hold open is only on the left side. With the prominent brass deflector there weren't any issues shooting left handed vs right apart from slight changes in manipulation of the gun. I found the factory safety to be a bit short. Which seems to be a pretty general consensus that you have to adjust your hand to engage the safety. I could disengage with no issues there.
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I did pick up Manticore Arms extended safety paddles and they work perfectly fine though I realized later that CZ offers factory extended safety paddles which I might try some time. I also replaced the charging handle with a larger knurled one from the same company. I thought of getting KNS bent charging handle, but with the exception of the DEVO/LCO combo there hasn't even been a risk of knocking my knuckle. I haven't really messed with alternate rail options yet such as M-Lok.
Price is something that is a bit restrictive on this rifle. But it really depends on the time at which you get it, and a number of other conditions as we are all familiar with in Massachusetts.
I personally got my rifle BNIB for 1400$ after tax and compliance in Mass, which is a great price in my opinion. But I've seen them going for 1200$ to 1900$ so it really varies in that case. Either way this is viewed as an alternate to the Scar which at my price point is nearly double the price so take that for what it's worth especially considering the build quality offered.
That being said I've also spent money (this is honestly NOT required, but for experimentation and personalizing is worth it to me) that has brought total cost up higher.
The rifle does have little third party support so far, but as with anything that's newer it's still waiting to catch on. I'm finding it to be a combination of increasing popularity driving the development we do see. Then on the other end somewhat prohibitive price & honestly there isn't much on this rifle that needs changing hold back development commercially. That being said it is definitely a bit lacking so far, yet things are improving. There is definitely room for user level changes to be made such as the pistol grip and bolt release, but these things are actually being addressed by CZ unlike the competition like Remington/Bushmaster. Given that the ACR after a decade still doesn't have answers to promises they made and are terrible at the answers and solutions they have provided I have zero complaints about this rifles service so far. Drop in barrels with appropriately adjusted gas system run 400-450$ while complying with 922R and import restrictions and yet somehow the ACR barrels cost 600$. That's ignoring the other problems that rifle has. I do appreciate some of the community responses to the few shortcomings this rifle has such as the pistol grip (which is incredibly minor if we're honest)
I do have a second pistol grip assembly (only 40$ shipped) coming from CZ that I plan on doing a little work on to recreate a post I saw on AR15.com replacing the grip and very cleanly using JB weld to apply a new grip. I thought it sounded a bit bubba from the start, but given his end result and I know I can do something similar. I'd say he did a great job with that modification given how cheap an additional grip assembly is. I'll post photos of mine as the project goes along as well. (Photo belongs to Katzma over at AR15 with link provided if you'd like more information on his dremel job ha: Consensus on CZ Bren - Page 15 - AR15.COM)
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I'll be adding more to that portion as I go since I also plan on making a few other things with either molding or 3D printing to replace just to experiment.
In the meantime I want to lastly get more into the weight and some things I have been trying.
The rifle has been noted to be a little heavier while not being unusually heavy. Which is odd because upon diving a bit into it while yes, the milled aluminum upper is heavier than some alternatives (not really when you consider an upper receiver and handguard to an AR in combination) most of the additions of weight are in accessory areas that are just overbuilt. After seeing a post weighing out some parts I followed it up and did a few more parts given our state restrictions.
Individual part weights:
Bottom Rail - 2.499 ounces
Side Rails - 1.342 ounces / let's say 2.68 ounces for the pair
Front Rail Mount - 1.190 ounces
Ambidextrous Front Sling Mount: 1.438 ounces
Ambidextrous Rear Sling Mount 0.917 ounces
This rifle does come with factory iron sights with a two position peep and ghost ring rear sight, but damn these things are overbuilt even compared to some Troy BUIS that I had lying around.
The two sights come in at 3.66 ounces as a pair.
Realizing I live in no folding stock Massachusetts I also weighed that since while it is very sturdy it is incredibly overbuilt as a fixed stock that I'm forced to use it for. This monster weighs in 23-24 ounces depending which scale I used. The stock is very well made though.
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I added .23 ounces to the rifle adding the larger charging handle and safety levers but that is still over 12 ounces of weight from components that can be easily removed (some have structural use though) from the rifle and an over-engineered fixed stock that weighs too much for what I can use it for. I'm pretty sure we can do something about that. For the bottom rail there aren't any lighter options available yet unfortunately since I'm not running any grips or bipod on this rifle I don't need picatinny rail or the 33% heavier M-Lok rail available from Manticore, Midwest Industries or KNS. The side rails actually protrude out from the rifle about 1/4" in some parts and 3/32 in others. Apart from being a place holder for those who want M-Lok or 3 & 9 position rails there is no reason they cannot be flush. The reason I say flush is because they can't be eliminated as much as I'd do that if I could. They serve to set the barrel in the proper position. I am going to be working on making a pair of those for myself in the near future as time allows. The front and rear sling mounts are solid steel, but are intended for HK hooks as well. They make sense in that guise, but I am not using HK hooks so they are incredibly overbuilt. I managed to save nearly an ounce off of the rifle by eliminating the rear sling mount with a 3D printed cap (not pictured at the moment) that weighs .12 ounces. Shaving off nearly .8 ounces off of a part that (if you are not using it) serves no purpose but to cover a screw port.
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I did remove the BUIS from the rifle when using the ACOG/RMR combo and haven't added them back on still. Not entirely sure I will because even with just the LCO on the rifle that thing is solid as a rock and reliable as long as I've had it. Moving lastly for the moment to the stock, this is the single largest point of weight savings that I have made so far. Adding the (weights from manufacturer in this case) KNS M4 tube adapter (5 ounces), VLTOR A5 Receiver (4.3 ounces), and the MFT minimalist stock (5.7 ounces) for a total of 15 ounces which shaves 8 to 9 ounces alone in the stock since I don't have to include any of the internals to the receiver tube.
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Now when testing the rifle on scale it comes in at 8.45 lbs. Now that isn't significant weight reduction from starting point, but that allowed me to reallocate that weight very simply without negatively impacting the balance. That now includes a LCO (just over 9 ounces), 30 round magazine and two point sling. The rifle comes in at 8.7 pounds again with the ACOG (TA31) back on it and 8.9 with ACOG/RMR all competitive weights with not intentionally ultralight weight AR15s. This is a rifle I intend on getting a tax stamp for and bringing down to size, but I'm not entirely sold yet as I have other projects that I think should get it more (HK USC/UMP)

I will say I do enjoy this rifle every bit as any other higher quality rifle and while it doesn't redefine the wheel by any means CZ goes out of their way to provide a high quality product to the US market that let's be honest is pretty much a gift since their primary focus for it was development for military service. It's definitely something worth having in the safe and of the AR18 derivatives it is by far at the top of the list compared to any of the alternatives in that regards. Yet, if you have something comparable (MCX/Scar) it isn't entirely worth your attention unless you just enjoy having nice rifles and supporting the market since they are all pretty much the same thing at the end of the day. If you want a rifle that feels like you could run it over with a tank, run reliably through whatever junk you throw through it and still have a buttery smooth action with far more than acceptable accuracy. Then this is your gun.
All in all just wanted to share thoughts on the rifle, and see any other comparable thoughts. Feel free to ask any questions.
 
Nice write ups, I was looking at the Bren the other day actually, I’m thinking about getting another Rifle to mix it up a bit with my AR’s
I’m kinda done with the AK thing and might pick one of these up
 
nice write up. I considered one for a while but am holding out for the 806.
 
Nice write ups, I was looking at the Bren the other day actually, I’m thinking about getting another Rifle to mix it up a bit with my AR’s
I’m kinda done with the AK thing and might pick one of these up
Yeah it's definitely worth the money especially compared to contemporaries that aren't the AR.
nice write up. I considered one for a while but am holding out for the 806.
I was going to, but I found a couple videos of people handling the newer ones overseas and while definitely lighter with the receiver (which I do appreciate) the stock turns into a scar issue with durability. The only thing I'm missing out on are lightened receiver and bolt release. Edit: forgot the most important part... managed to get the weight down to a more than manageable point with optic. Which I mess around with enough guns without and the charging handle is so easy to release I don't even care. It worked into the manual of arms just fine for this gun.
 
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Keep updating us. They are a cool rifle

Plan on it, just getting side tracked with my USC and SL8 projects. A bit miffed though because I waited so long to do the pistol grip and as the parts came in I realize Dan Haga releases a lower receiver that can attach whatever grip you want.
https://www.danhagadesigns.com/ Will actually be posting an update soon though.
 
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