Crypto currency discussion

jasonj84

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Late to the game. Just starting to look into crypto. Where is everyone at now? Bitcoin and Ethereum still (BTC at $15k), or any newer players (Pirate Chain)?
 

connor

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Late to the game. Just starting to look into crypto. Where is everyone at now? Bitcoin and Ethereum still (BTC at $15k), or any newer players (Pirate Chain)?
What are your goals? Wanna play around and make some small change see what’s hot on Coinbase. If you just want to get some diversity, hedge against the massive collapse of all fiat currencies that crypto fanboys talk about, and possibly grow an investment long term, buy bitcoin.
Definitely sign up for coinbase earn tho. Free shitcoins are better than nothing.
 

Dench

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Late to the game. Just starting to look into crypto. Where is everyone at now? Bitcoin and Ethereum still (BTC at $15k), or any newer players (Pirate Chain)?
You should be careful. BTC's price is high for no reason other than "reasons." BTC has turned out to be bad at being an actual currency, as its slow and not exactly as private as people like to think it is. 65% of BTC is mined in China via subsidized electricity, which is a huge problem and should be the kiss of death for the coin outside of buying it only to dump for profit. The coin's basically de facto controlled by the PRC.

ETH has some uses, although after years and years no one outside of crypto kool-aide land is actually using ETH for anything other than flipping on a market.

ARRR is a privacy coin that no one seems to be using and is also only on one exchange, which is a huge problem. If you want to use a privacy based coin I'd go with Monero which has been in that niche for quite some time now.


It's impossible to say what you can make money on, which coins are good bets, etc. The market is heavily, nearly fully manipulated by large entities and holds no real value outside of the people who trade in it. I've made some pretty good money on BTC a few years ago, but to be honest it was pure luck. I had no idea that BTC was going to continue to rise, it could of dropped and I could of lost a substantial amount of money. I lucked out, and ended up making some.


The real problem with crypto is there's still no actual public demand for it. I thought for sure when Venezuela's economy imploded that BTC or another coin would end up being a de facto currency as the local one was experiencing hyperinflation. It never happened in any remarkable amounts. That was the only scenario I could see crypto gaining steam - and hell, it's a very legitimate use for it. Still went no where.

Crypto is, has been and will remain indefinitely an ultra high risk casino that's mostly rigged.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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The real problem with crypto is there's still no actual public demand for it. I thought for sure when Venezuela's economy imploded that BTC or another coin would end up being a de facto currency as the local one was experiencing hyperinflation. It never happened in any remarkable amounts. That was the only scenario I could see crypto gaining steam - and hell, it's a very legitimate use for it. Still went no where.
Venezuela is all dollars now. I was speaking with my mother in law this week, she was telling me they are having a big issue because half the gas stations will start charging in dollars, the other half will continue to charge in Bolivars and there is very little gas.

Everything she buys is purchased using dollars. Apartments and cars are purchased in dollars.

People transfer the money using PayPal, Zelle or other tools. It is hard to pay cash because no one has change. You go to the Apple store and they let you transfer the payment using Zelle.

So yeah, they are not going haedcore on crypto.
 

jasonj84

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What are your goals? Wanna play around and make some small change see what’s hot on Coinbase. If you just want to get some diversity, hedge against the massive collapse of all fiat currencies that crypto fanboys talk about, and possibly grow an investment long term, buy bitcoin.
Definitely sign up for coinbase earn tho. Free shitcoins are better than nothing.
Have been drilling down into it for the last few days. Going to throw a good chunk of cash savings into Bitcoin for long term. Will probably throw a small amount into Ethereum and gamble a little on some of the emerging ones. Will check out Coinbase earn. Ty.
 

Varmint

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Lot of hedge funds are big into bitcoin, some literally converted all their assets to bitcoin.

It's literally become a currency, you can buy gold at Apmex with bitcoin. Trust in Bitcoin keeps going up while trust in the dollar keeps going down.

I personally view it like Tesla, good investment but I don't like to chase an investment after it's gone up huge.
 

Zarathustra11

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BTC is going to take the place of gold, and this is coming from a long time PM's guy. The reason is beyond pure supply/demand- it's logistics and it's the fact all markets are rigged, but none as much as the metals markets. BTC has become a store of wealth. It's not useful for daily transactions, but with a fixed supply and some of the major companies and institutions looking to get in (Square, Microstrategies) much of this supply can potentially dry up quickly.

ETH is going to be around for a while. I do see tremendous upside, although I personally can't stand how slow and costly it is as a practical matter. They are already working on 2.0, and the creator is a brilliant guy- don't see this doing anything but getting better, faster, and more cost-effective.

Chainlink is another mainstay coin that I feel has some room to grow, you would not go wrong picking this up (although I would avoid chasing any rallies on this).

Litecoin will continue to do well, despite the challenges and continues to show promise.

As for up and comers, here are a few I am watching closely:

THETA token- has a real-world use case already being demonstrated. They leverage bandwidth from users and P2P networks and reward this with something known as THETA fuel (which can be converted to THETA tokens) and use this to provide streaming services around the world. Just by watching streaming feeds and participating, users can accumulate THETA fuel. They already have contracts with Samsung and others, look for this one to do well.

Bitcoin Black- this coin is actually completely separate and different from Bitcoin. I have been following this for some time now, they have not yet announced their IEO. The best part is, you can get it for free (3,600 coins) just for signing up to their airdrop. They have a Stage 6 pre-sale going on (100,000 tokens for $180) if you're looking to pickup more than the free air drop.
 
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Varmint

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BTC is going to take the place of gold, and this is coming from a long time PM's guy. The reason is beyond pure supply/demand- it's logistics and it's the fact all markets are rigged, but none as much as the metals markets. BTC has become a store of wealth. It's not useful for daily transactions, but with a fixed supply and some of the major companies and institutions looking to get in (Square, Microstrategies) much of this supply can potentially dry up quickly.
One thing it'll never do is replace gold. Central banks have been buying up gold at a record pace. They know that eventually they'll need something tangible to back their currency, or the future currency that replaces it. If they were going to have to use bitcoin for that purpose instead of gold, they'd have to buy up trillions in bitcoin, and that would be impossible cause it would drive up the price.

They can't really use another digital currency to back their digital currency either, cause the world will never trust a government controlled currency backed by a government controlled crypto currency.

So even if bitcoin or some other crypto becomes the world currency, it'll still need to be backed by something, most likely gold.

PS The gold market is heavily manipulated (what market isn't these days?), but it isn't rigged, that's just something some goldbugs believe. Silver is another story.
 

Zarathustra11

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One thing it'll never do is replace gold. Central banks have been buying up gold at a record pace. They know that eventually they'll need something tangible to back their currency, or the future currency that replaces it. If they were going to have to use bitcoin for that purpose instead of gold, they'd have to buy up trillions in bitcoin, and that would be impossible cause it would drive up the price.

They can't really use another digital currency to back their digital currency either, cause the world will never trust a government controlled currency backed by a government controlled crypto currency.

So even if bitcoin or some other crypto becomes the world currency, it'll still need to be backed by something, most likely gold.

PS The gold market is heavily manipulated (what market isn't these days?), but it isn't rigged, that's just something some goldbugs believe. Silver is another story.
Yes, I agree with what you're saying, but the point of decentralized finance is that central banks will no longer be needed. They can provide custodial services, hold seeds/keys, and offer staking services, etc. but largely the momentum will be the shift away from banks and third parties to more direct transactions with trust and security measures built in.

That said, I do think certain countries will consider propping up their currencies (including digital) over time using metals, as the fiat value of the dollar continues to wash out. I also don't see the dollar necessarily crashing in a black swan event, but losing steam over time as parallel tracks of finance are setup and draw increasingly larger interest (i.e. crypto's).

I still love PM's, but they are and will continue to be so rigidly controlled that there is no tremendous upside (although I can see silver go to $30-40 in the near future). As far as wealth preservation; however, these have always stood the test of time. I think having a healthy diversification at this stage is important.

What I like about the crypto's is the staking aspect, which is yielding far better and more aggressive returns than anything else I've come across. I'm not a trader, and have no use or appeal for trading options.
 

Varmint

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Yes, I agree with what you're saying, but the point of decentralized finance is that central banks will no longer be needed. They can provide custodial services, hold seeds/keys, and offer staking services, etc. but largely the momentum will be the shift away from banks and third parties to more direct transactions with trust and security measures built in.

That said, I do think certain countries will consider propping up their currencies (including digital) over time using metals, as the fiat value of the dollar continues to wash out. I also don't see the dollar necessarily crashing in a black swan event, but losing steam over time as parallel tracks of finance are setup and draw increasingly larger interest (i.e. crypto's).

I still love PM's, but they are and will continue to be so rigidly controlled that there is no tremendous upside (although I can see silver go to $30-40 in the near future). As far as wealth preservation; however, these have always stood the test of time. I think having a healthy diversification at this stage is important.

What I like about the crypto's is the staking aspect, which is yielding far better and more aggressive returns than anything else I've come across. I'm not a trader, and have no use or appeal for trading options.
I think decentralized finance is like small government - it would be great if we ever got back to that, but it's gonna take some kind of revolution to get governments to relinguish their power. Do you think bitcoin can stand up to global governments trying to eradicate or control it? Cause that's what will happen if it threatens the central banks.
 

Zarathustra11

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I think decentralized finance is like small government - it would be great if we ever got back to that, but it's gonna take some kind of revolution to get governments to relinguish their power. Do you think bitcoin can stand up to global governments trying to eradicate or control it? Cause that's what will happen if it threatens the central banks.
I agree. I think Bitcoin represents just one of many undercurrents being used to dissolve nation-states altogether. Not to bring about financial freedom, but instead provide a platform for more centralized control under the guise of it being 'organic' and 'what the people want.' It was designed to be appealing in this way, offering the illusion of choice. I don't think this is as adverse a relationship as it appears.

The chief legal officer at Coinbase was appointed by Mnuchin as our top banking regulator. CFTC recently named Coinbase general counsel Dorothy DeWitt as the agency's new director of market oversight, and the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency in July clarified that national banks and federal savings associations can act as crypto custodians.

They are clearly positioning themselves for the adoption of cryptocurrencies in a more mainstream manner (in addition to digital fiat). I'm just reading the tea leaves and seeing the writing on the wall. Bankers have always dreamed of digital currencies and transactions offering full transparency and control. This is why I resisted cryptocurrencies for so long. In principal, it just casts a far wider net of control, even as people see it as the opposite (freedom from government fiat and banking KYC requirements). How easily people forget that Facebook is DARPA's lifelog project, and still believe Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person.

I think at some point there has to be the realization that neither governments nor central banks are effective custodians or managers of money supplies. All fiat currencies must return to their original value ($0), but only after they have sufficiently squeezed and controlled populations. The general distrust of banks and fiat, combined with inflationary policies and poor yields (even negative interest rates) will force many people to look elsewhere. This is your Hegelian dialectic (problem, reaction, solution).

I realize we may be trading one form of slavery for another, but if that information allows you to better position yourself financially in the meantime, it provides an advantage. That, and the fact nothing is set in stone. Although governments and bankers each want to believe this is their new 'creature' from Jekyll Island, I don't think either have sufficient control over where this technology is leading to feel entirely confident this is the case.
 

Varmint

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I agree. I think Bitcoin represents just one of many undercurrents being used to dissolve nation-states altogether. Not to bring about financial freedom, but instead provide a platform for more centralized control under the guise of it being 'organic' and 'what the people want.' It was designed to be appealing in this way, offering the illusion of choice. I don't think this is as adverse a relationship as it appears.

The chief legal officer at Coinbase was appointed by Mnuchin as our top banking regulator. CFTC recently named Coinbase general counsel Dorothy DeWitt as the agency's new director of market oversight, and the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency in July clarified that national banks and federal savings associations can act as crypto custodians.

They are clearly positioning themselves for the adoption of cryptocurrencies in a more mainstream manner (in addition to digital fiat). I'm just reading the tea leaves and seeing the writing on the wall. Bankers have always dreamed of digital currencies and transactions offering full transparency and control. This is why I resisted cryptocurrencies for so long. In principal, it just casts a far wider net of control, even as people see it as the opposite (freedom from government fiat and banking KYC requirements). How easily people forget that Facebook is DARPA's lifelog project, and still believe Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person.

I think at some point there has to be the realization that neither governments nor central banks are effective custodians or managers of money supplies. All fiat currencies must return to their original value ($0), but only after they have sufficiently squeezed and controlled populations. The general distrust of banks and fiat, combined with inflationary policies and poor yields (even negative interest rates) will force many people to look elsewhere. This is your Hegelian dialectic (problem, reaction, solution).

I realize we may be trading one form of slavery for another, but if that information allows you to better position yourself financially in the meantime, it provides an advantage. That, and the fact nothing is set in stone. Although governments and bankers each want to believe this is their new 'creature' from Jekyll Island, I don't think either have sufficient control over where this technology is leading to feel entirely confident this is the case.
Yeah, in today's world you have to be really nimble. I'm all in on gold and silver miners with my retirement, but I'm fully aware that's only a good investment til it's not - nothing is buy and hold forever these days. You can't be dogmatic, gotta keep analyzing and not get complacent cause the government is always messing with markets.
 

richc

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Sal Romaine

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Scam? Definitely not. Will it eventually reach it's end goal of being a stable store of currency? I don't know. Right now it is certainly not stable. It can't be. It is still too early. But it is unstable in a way that is good for people that own it. Up and down but slowly moving up.

The truth is, it is already some peoples best option in countries with unstable currencies and printing presses for leaders. Take Zimbabwe or Argentina as examples.

Will Bitcoin eventually crash? I don't know. Maybe. But everyone needs to lose faith in it for that to happen. I think you can make a better case that Fiat currencies as a whole are going to crash.

Gold/Silver are definitely the safest bet, but Bitcoin has more upside. If the success continues, getting in now would still make you an early adopter.
 

jasonj84

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BTC is going to take the place of gold, and this is coming from a long time PM's guy. The reason is beyond pure supply/demand- it's logistics and it's the fact all markets are rigged, but none as much as the metals markets. BTC has become a store of wealth. It's not useful for daily transactions, but with a fixed supply and some of the major companies and institutions looking to get in (Square, Microstrategies) much of this supply can potentially dry up quickly.

ETH is going to be around for a while. I do see tremendous upside, although I personally can't stand how slow and costly it is as a practical matter. They are already working on 2.0, and the creator is a brilliant guy- don't see this doing anything but getting better, faster, and more cost-effective.

Chainlink is another mainstay coin that I feel has some room to grow, you would not go wrong picking this up (although I would avoid chasing any rallies on this).

Litecoin will continue to do well, despite the challenges and continues to show promise.

As for up and comers, here are a few I am watching closely:

THETA token- has a real-world use case already being demonstrated. They leverage bandwidth from users and P2P networks and reward this with something known as THETA fuel (which can be converted to THETA tokens) and use this to provide streaming services around the world. Just by watching streaming feeds and participating, users can accumulate THETA fuel. They already have contracts with Samsung and others, look for this one to do well.

Bitcoin Black- this coin is actually completely separate and different from Bitcoin. I have been following this for some time now, they have not yet announced their IEO. The best part is, you can get it for free (3,600 coins) just for signing up to their airdrop. They have a Stage 6 pre-sale going on (100,000 tokens for $180) if you're looking to pickup more than the free air drop.
Thank you. Lots of good info in this post.
 

Dench

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Yeah, in today's world you have to be really nimble. I'm all in on gold and silver miners with my retirement, but I'm fully aware that's only a good investment til it's not - nothing is buy and hold forever these days. You can't be dogmatic, gotta keep analyzing and not get complacent cause the government is always messing with markets.
I'm amazed by some of the stuff people are still saying about BTC specifically. Does crypto have a future? 100% for sure. Does BTC? Why would it? It's de facto run by China and it's outdated and slow. All the upgrades that have been promised over the past years have either failed completely or made little to no actual net gain for the coin in the public use. The ONLY thing BTC has going for itself is it's the 1st to the race. That's it. Besides that it has a long list of negatives for actual use as intended by the creator.

That said can people make money off BTC? Yes, for sure. I've made money off BTC. But it's a very high risk game and can take time.

Another thing about BTC that people just never seem to mention is how wildly hostile it is to the average consumer by its nature. Make a mistake sending it? Gone forever. Get robbed? Gone. Lose access to your wallet? Gone. There are endless stories of people losing insane amounts of money this way. It happens non stop, every day and it happens to people who know better also. Shit happens, people make mistakes. When you do that in BTC you can lose it all.

BTC is also not really private. This is another really big problem about BTC.


Litecoin (LTC) was also brought up. LTC isnt doing good. LTC is for lack of better term a BTC clone. I've also made money off LTC, however it's not much more useful than BTC in terms of doing anything other than buying low and selling high.


If you want to make money and are willing to literally risk it all - do it. But have NO illusions about the risk associated with it. Will you make money? Probably. Which is good news (if youre patient and a little lucky). Is it an incredible risk? Yes. Is the entire market saturated with scammers and bad actors? 100%. Does BTC have any F'ing practical use besides buying, holding for a year to avoid short term capital gains and dumping for a profit? Not a chance in hell.

One of the most insanely frustrating things about reading these convo's is it's the same shit different day. This path of thought, which is full blown kool-aide has burned so many friggen people it's unbelievable. There is nothing wrong with making money on BTC. But there is a LOT wrong with pretending BTC has an actual use besides pump and dumps and a few other niche things here and there. There are many, probably hundreds of coins out there who do what BTC does better and does not have a 65% controlling interest via the Peoples Republic of China.

And then there's always a guy who speaks to the high Heavens about how great crypto is... and said guy always seems to know of the next big release. Keep dreaming. Livecoinwatch.com has nearly 4,000 coins on it. Probably 98% of them are completely uses for all purposes at the end of the day. If that new coin happens to be say the 1 in 200 chance per year of landing in the top 50, you stand to make a lot of money. If not, flush that cash right down the toilet.

Thank you. Lots of good info in this post.
Before you make a coinbase account get a referral link. It can be from me, or anyone else here. If you want one send me a PM and you'll have it. If you want someone elses by all means. Make sure the other person is familiar with the system on coinbase around referrals. This way you'll make some free extra cash there for zero work other than clicking a few affiliate links when needed. This is a pretty solid deal. Coinbase also has some good videos about many of their coins, how they work and why they exist. These are interesting and they also pay you usually for watching them (say 5-15 for each coin, usually).

That said, DO NOT use coinbase to buy large amounts of crypto. If you want to use a US based exchange (which you'd be completely insane not to) use coinbase pro. You coinbase credentials will work there and the fee structure is significantly less. As an example, when I cashed out a while ago the fee's on coinbases end were if I remember correctly ~$400 different between coinbase (there consumer friendly front end) and coinbase pro (their 'i have at least half a clue what I'm doing and know how to read charts' side). Do not attempt to day trade crypto, either. This section of the market is basically run by bots that are very good at eating up money. If you make money on a day trade after fees, which I admit I have, it's more luck than anything else.


Governments wield a significant amount of their power through control of their currency. And said governments don't like competition...

this is one of the big problems with BTC. Can BTC be banned in the US? I suppose. I personally think it very unlikely as long as the IRS gets its cut. however, the problem remains as mentioned above is that BTC is not anonymous. And if were going to pretend we will make millions on BTC, it becomes illegal and now we have to figure out how the hell to get this BTC into something liquid and not illegal.... holy shit good luck. BTC's privacy a decade ago was stellar as it was so new and novel. However, as time rolls on a lot of accounts are on permanent watch by our pals over at the .gov, and in a lot of cases at legit crypto exchanges. Many a story of people on coinbase running into problems because their account somehow one way or another interacted with BTC that was run though a flagged wallet. What a colossal pain in the ass. Thats like going to the bank to deposit cash and the cashier saying no because at one point that cash was used to buy drugs. Dumb.

I suspect for reasons no other than legal practicality Coinbase wont run coins that are privacy coins. As they will be used by big meanies to do illegal things, and coinbase doesnt want people washing money through them as they are a legit FDIC insured bank, along with exchange, etc.
 
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Zarathustra11

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I'm amazed by some of the stuff people are still saying about BTC specifically. Does crypto have a future? 100% for sure. Does BTC? Why would it? It's de facto run by China and it's outdated and slow. All the upgrades that have been promised over the past years have either failed completely or made little to no actual net gain for the coin in the public use. The ONLY thing BTC has going for itself is it's the 1st to the race. That's it. Besides that it has a long list of negatives for actual use as intended by the creator.

That said can people make money off BTC? Yes, for sure. I've made money off BTC. But it's a very high risk game and can take time.

Another thing about BTC that people just never seem to mention is how wildly hostile it is to the average consumer by its nature. Make a mistake sending it? Gone forever. Get robbed? Gone. Lose access to your wallet? Gone. There are endless stories of people losing insane amounts of money this way. It happens non stop, every day and it happens to people who know better also. Shit happens, people make mistakes. When you do that in BTC you can lose it all.

BTC is also not really private. This is another really big problem about BTC.


Litecoin (LTC) was also brought up. LTC isnt doing good. LTC is for lack of better term a BTC clone. I've also made money off LTC, however it's not much more useful than BTC in terms of doing anything other than buying low and selling high.


If you want to make money and are willing to literally risk it all - do it. But have NO illusions about the risk associated with it. Will you make money? Probably. Which is good news (if youre patient and a little lucky). Is it an incredible risk? Yes. Is the entire market saturated with scammers and bad actors? 100%. Does BTC have any F'ing practical use besides buying, holding for a year to avoid short term capital gains and dumping for a profit? Not a chance in hell.

One of the most insanely frustrating things about reading these convo's is it's the same shit different day. This path of thought, which is full blown kool-aide has burned so many friggen people it's unbelievable. There is nothing wrong with making money on BTC. But there is a LOT wrong with pretending BTC has an actual use besides pump and dumps and a few other niche things here and there. There are many, probably hundreds of coins out there who do what BTC does better and does not have a 65% controlling interest via the Peoples Republic of China.

And then there's always a guy who speaks to the high Heavens about how great crypto is... and said guy always seems to know of the next big release. Keep dreaming. Livecoinwatch.com has nearly 4,000 coins on it. Probably 98% of them are completely uses for all purposes at the end of the day. If that new coin happens to be say the 1 in 200 chance per year of landing in the top 50, you stand to make a lot of money. If not, flush that cash right down the toilet.



Before you make a coinbase account get a referral link. It can be from me, or anyone else here. If you want one send me a PM and you'll have it. If you want someone elses by all means. Make sure the other person is familiar with the system on coinbase around referrals. This way you'll make some free extra cash there for zero work other than clicking a few affiliate links when needed. This is a pretty solid deal. Coinbase also has some good videos about many of their coins, how they work and why they exist. These are interesting and they also pay you usually for watching them (say 5-15 for each coin, usually).

That said, DO NOT use coinbase to buy large amounts of crypto. If you want to use a US based exchange (which you'd be completely insane not to) use coinbase pro. You coinbase credentials will work there and the fee structure is significantly less. As an example, when I cashed out a while ago the fee's on coinbases end were if I remember correctly ~$400 different between coinbase (there consumer friendly front end) and coinbase pro (their 'i have at least half a clue what I'm doing and know how to read charts' side). Do not attempt to day trade crypto, either. This section of the market is basically run by bots that are very good at eating up money. If you make money on a day trade after fees, which I admit I have, it's more luck than anything else.
We all have our opinions. At one stage, I probably would say I agreed with most of what you've said here. I just don't anymore. When you start seeing institutional wealth investing in Bitcoin and mainstream wealth managers like Paul Tudor Jones recommending BTC as part of a portfolio investment strategy, the winds are certainly changing and this is no longer speculative but a mainstay of the financial ecosystem.

Break down what you are saying. If BTC was outdated, it would have been left to the curb years ago by existing market forces. There was certainly poor sentiment among notable wealth managers, banks, and governments, yet it survived and even thrived. This resilience alone shows it still holds value, even if it remains slow and costly on a transaction level. The fact is, BTC has a limited supply, high demand, and becomes increasingly difficult to mine over time. This is why I compare it more to gold than to a transaction based token. This is the perfect asset to lock in, particularly where demand for appreciating assets is high, and money markets and treasury bonds are no longer yielding real returns. My concern was always hacking, but BTC has and continues to prove itself, despite several exchanges being hacked. BTC is not intended to be 'private' in the sense it is built upon a consensus blockchain, yet it still facilitates borderless payments without issue.

As I've said, I've always been a metals guy myself, and don't need much convincing to buy silver especially; however, a real attractive element about cryptos is you only need in most cases your 12 word phrase to access your funds anywhere in the world. You can have $1M in you mind memorized in a phrase you sing to yourself- nothing to declare, no physical metals to lug around or protect in a safe, and nothing more than your phone and perhaps some MFA to verify your identity.

I know a guy who recently bugged out to a foreign country when things started going south earlier this year. He was heavily invested in silver and was forced to liquidate his metals at a lower price than he would have liked because of the logistics involved with trying to take it with him. Not saying that's going to be the case for most people, but it's something to keep in mind. He's now much more weighted in cryptos, and happy about it!

This is not financial advice, since I personally don't care what people decide to do with their own money. The results speak for themselves, ask anyone who owns BTC how they're doing right now. As for Litecoin, well- let's just see how it goes. I'm not looking to turn a quick buck, if I was I would be trading options. These are longer term investments, I do my own research and recommend others do the same.
 

Dench

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If BTC was outdated, it would have been left to the curb years ago by existing market forces.
No one is saying BTC is modern or advanced. Zero people. BTC has value for one reason and that is name recognition. Next to everyone who has basic stock market / financial knowledge has been exposed to BTC one way or another, usually though the media.

The coin you mentioned as being an up and comer specifically goes out of its way to say it's not BTC (despite using the name), as this new coin addresses the laundry list of problems that BTC has as an actual practical cryptocurrency.

Again, not saying people can't make money off it. They can. But BTC is worth money for "reasons." People need to know that.



As for your last part, its real easy to talk smack about making the big bucks when the market is full blown bear. Want to take a trip down memory road post BTC crash were people bought in at 14k+ and lost insane amounts of money? It goes both ways. If one persons making money another persons losing the general equivalent in most cases at the end of the day - which is what makes it so high risk. The players want you to lose money. People need to know how the market works. It's the wild west and everyone is there to take your money.
 

Zarathustra11

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If someone decides to chase a rally, again to score a quick buck, they deserve what comes from not being patient or doing the required diligence.

I got in neither low nor high, I waited patiently and watched. I watched the price rise, fall, rise again over years before considering entering this space because of the perceived volatility. Again, to each his own, but any grown adult needs to be responsible for their own choices. Plenty of information out there, and casinos exist for a reason.

BTC has value for the reasons I've mentioned (limited supply/high demand, harder to mine). I agree it's not sophisticated, but it doesn't need to be either. When it starts being offered next year through Paypal, will it really matter to consumers?

What do you think fiat is? Do you think the USD is worth more than the paper it's printed on? It is only until people decide it's not. It's certainly not backed in anything (not even oil anymore). The fact is, everything is a confidence game and matter of public perception. Just look at the stock market, yet it doesn't make the consequences any less real.

I'm also glad you took a look at Bitcoin Black- since it does operate completely differently than BTC (which is why I also like, and prefer, the approach). At a minimum, humor me and sign yourself up for the free tokens- I hope you and everyone else who does so is able to benefit from this in the future.

I was the guy who was too poor, too uninformed, and too late to the game when it came to investing in Amazon, Google, Apple and the others. I missed that train. Right now, people are finally starting to take cryptos seriously, with Covid more governments are rapidly shifting towards digital fiat technologies. Here is the opportunity for those of us who always were a day late and dollar short to finally get ahead of the wave, if approached with appropriate discernment. Clearly, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of BS tokens out there, which is why I primarily only focus only on a few with a strong backing, good technology, and potential for genuine long term success.
 
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Dench

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If someone decides to chase a rally, again to score a quick buck, they deserve what comes from not being patient or doing the required diligence.
Heres the rub: Is this a rally? I have no idea. And if you do, please tell me [rofl].

Years ago I bought LTC here from a member for under $10 each, I cant remember the amount. I thought that was INSANE. What did LTC top off at? Like $300? Insanity, had I only knew. Same with BTC. I remember a conversation with my wife a decade ago about BTC. BTC back then was still under $.15. I was spit balling that I should throw $100 into it. Wife said go for it. Like a true idiot I didnt, as at the time it was on the difficult side to buy. Fast forward to 2012. Now BTC's gotten over $20. Insane I thought, who the F would pay $20 for 1 BTC?. That didn't age well. It wasn't till a few years later that I finally bought in. And the best part was I was ridiculed like mad by coworkers and family for it. I put a lot of money into it. But I put money into it because I felt a bull rally coming on, as it was finally getting on TV a lot. It worked, and I lucked out. Unfortunately it wasnt at the top 20k (I had no idea where it would stop), but I still made a good amount of money and paid a car off.

Just because I think BTC is a mess doesnt mean I don't think it's worth rolling the dice on. Is todays unexplainably high price of ~14k a bubble or a rush or whatever? Who knows. I thought $20 was insane. And for all I know it could be 50k. I dont think it will be, but I've been wrong before.

That's one of the issues with BTC. It goes up and down with no clear (to the public) rhyme or reason. It appears to do that via reasonably well orchestrated pump and dump whale operations.

Say the media gets big on it again, fox business just cant stop bitching about why they cant see why it's so high - time to buy and set sell stop on an exchange to protect profits.
 

mav

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BTC is 6 months into its halvening bull market. Happens every four years. Research stock2flow. It’s one model among many that view scaricity as one of the driving factors in BTC’s cycles of gains and losses. We’re talking a four year cycle with higher highs and higher lows as the technology adoption increases... again similar to the S curve.

Want to know how this plays out? BTC hits $20k, maybe it breaches and sets another new ATH, maybe it fails at reaistance. Either way, expect a 30% correction in the short term... if $20k is resistance, $14k is your target buy. If higher, adjust accordingly. Buy with both fists. Sell your kids. Mortgage your wife. Whatever you have to do to buy as much BTC as you can on this next 30% correction because this is a bull market until Dec 2021 and we will likely hit $200k+, a simple 10x off the prior high, by the end. Sell in late November early December 2021 and wait until June or July 2024, just after the next halvening, to buy again. You’ll know when to buy again when BTC comes near its 200 weekly moving average, which is rising by 4-5% per month currently. My guesstimate is buy back at $30-40k near the bottom of the current cycle sometime early 2024 and begins to recover as the halvening closes in.

It’s scarcity and tech adoption combined with investor psychology (aka greed and fear). This isn’t rocket science. And yes, I’m balls deep in BTC and playing the exact scenario above, so I am putting my money where my mouth is.

As to other cryptos, meh. Speculate sure, but granddaddy BTC is what drives the market. Money flows into BTC and out of alts. Money flows out of BTC and into alts, but it is always BTC’s market cycles that drive crypto. You can make money on alts, but it’s a crap shoot. What I laid out above about BTC’s cycles is scripture (until it isn’t).

Oh, and for $hits and giggles, as we approach $19k as of this post in Nov 2020, take a look at the posts in the beginning of this thread back in 2017 and 2018. If 2017/18 self knew we’d be back here in 2020/21, how would you play it?

To quote a famous investor and bitcoin hater: "The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient." - Warren Buffett. This applies to crypto...
 
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MarkT

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I'm jumping in. What exchanges are you guys using?
Kraken. Not the most user friendly but has the lowest rates. Whichever you choose, go through all of the necessary steps to get to the highest verification level so that you can make larger purchases and withdrawals.
 

connor

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Anyone run a hardware wallet? And what’s the advantage over a software wallet like bitpay?
 
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