Creating AR15 Lowers for SHTF Time

[Noreaster]

CNC Machines: CNC Milling Machines - LittleMachineShop.com

Tormachs are nice, beyond my budget though.

 

[Yazz]

Can that thing make a good putter to help my Charity golf game?

 

[Dennis in MA]

Careful on that. There's some history that says if you rent a machine shop to someone that uses it to "manufacture" a firearm, you are in the business of manufacturing firearms. It's unclear that the GG wouldn't fall in the same category.

IIRC, it's EXACTLY this. Basically the shop had the plans. The "manufacture" was the customer pressing GO on the machine. ATF wasn't real happy with that.

Can that thing make a good putter to help my Charity golf game?

You wanna help your charity golf game? Auction off the putter.

 

[frenchman]

Let me quote Sgt Plumley: "by the time I need one, there will be plenty of them laying around". That's the reason why I don't own any guns.

 

[bmac10]

Monoprice has a 3d Printer called a IIIP for @ $300. I have used it to print a Carbon Fiber lower that has @ 350 rounds through it so far with no signs of wear. 2KG of Carbon Fiber filament is @ $26. No 80% to start with.

 

[namedpipes]

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this in the first place but unless you're a lawyer yourself I'd hesitate to jump to that conclusion. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon but I'd say you'd be putting yourself at risk in several ways - firearms manufacturing without a FFL, constructive possession and very likely more.

There is NO law against manufacturing firearms without an FFL.

What you can't do is manufacture them with the INTENT of selling them. The ATF also considers a pattern of behavior, so making a dozen rifles for your own use and then selling them off, you might get away with once. Make another dozen and sell those, you're acting like someone in the business of making and selling guns.

Having a dozen or so incomplete or even complete rifles is not illegal. The only issue, even in MA is avoid creating an assault weapon and WHEN it is capable of firing a shot, file an FA10.

IANAL

 

[namedpipes]

Monoprice has a 3d Printer called a IIIP for @ $300. I have used it to print a Carbon Fiber lower that has @ 350 rounds through it so far with no signs of wear. 2KG of Carbon Fiber filament is @ $26. No 80% to start with.

Did you add reinforcement around the rear where the buffer tube attaches?

 

[mibro]

There is NO law against manufacturing firearms without an FFL.

What you can't do is manufacture them with the INTENT of selling them.

Yes, of course, that I understand but the OP said this:

"In the mean time, a person can buy one of these GG machines and crank out hundreds of lowers."

Hundreds. Hundreds of lowers. Good luck convincing a G-man with an attitude you made hundreds of lowers for your own personal use.

 

[allen-1]

1650$ is an interesting number. If you're living from paycheck to paycheck it's probably out of your reach. If you're got money to piss away, it's no big deal. If you're somewhere in the middle - it's a number to make you think before you spend it.

My plastic fantastic Glocks cost about 500$ each.
My SS Kimber Target-II in 9mm if I remember correctly was about 1300.

So - 1650 for a limited purpose CNC machine that can finish 80% AR-15's, AR-10's, 1911's, can do engraving and has a fairly good sized enthusiast base? That enthusiast base? Yeah, there's an active community writing GCode for it, making jigs and sharing experiences. There's discussion about future projects such as 80% 1022s. Who knows where this will go?

I've got a baby milling machine and the jig for completing 80% lowers.
In a free state you can legally make as many lowers for personal use as you want.

 

[mibro]

Monoprice has a 3d Printer called a IIIP for @ $300. I have used it to print a Carbon Fiber lower that has @ 350 rounds through it so far with no signs of wear. 2KG of Carbon Fiber filament is @ $26. No 80% to start with.

Wow, that's very interesting. I just Googled a bit and this would be carbon fiber reinforced nylon, I'm guessing?

 

[kalash]

Love the star!

 

[Keop]

Tormachs are nice, beyond my budget though.

I owned and ran a Tormach for about 3 years. If all you want is to make 10 - 80%'s into 100%'s than the Ghost Gun machine is a better option. The Tormach would mill out 80%'s no problem but for any real production it sucked. It costs way too much just to mill out trigger pockets.

Now my old used Haas on the other hand cost 1/3 less than a full Tormach setup and machines 10x faster. The only problem was finding a place for it. Too big for the garage.

My 0's prototypes but everyone and their mothers makes AR stuff so not worth the machine time really.

 

[headednorth]

What SHTF plan are we even talking about here? Clearly not an end-of-the-world situation because I hope no one would be stupid enough to worry about registration at that point. Is this about a total ban and confiscation of ARs, AWs, semis, or guns in general? That's as unrealistic as when the antis propose it - you're simply not going to have SWAT teams going door-to-door with FA10 lists to confiscate your guns, that's just begging for a civil war (plus I feel like most LEOs are pro-2A anyways so I can hope that they wouldn't obey such orders).

Really in hindsight you should've bought extra finished lowers before the edict by Her Majesty. No FA10 necessary and no milling required.

Hope I'm wrong but most LEOs are more pro-pension than they are pro-2a. They will go door to door if that's what it takes to keep their pension intact.

 

[BTSDOG]

A better plan for SHTF would be to not post about your plan online.

+1000

 

[bmac10]

Did you add reinforcement around the rear where the buffer tube attaches?

Yes - The file I used has a very thick collar where the buffer tube attaches.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

What makes you think barrels are going to be readily available after go time when you are sitting with your large stock of finished lower?

 

[Golddiggie]

What makes you think barrels are going to be readily available after go time when you are sitting with your large stock of finished lower?

This is why everyone (with an AR) should have, or plan to have, multiple uppers per each lower. Caliber and barrel configuration of whatever you wish. From pistol/SBR up to long barreled uppers. I have a couple of 'spare' upper receivers that I need to complete at some point in the coming months. Of course, I also plan to pick up several more upper receivers to build into various configurations.

 

[Nick Fury]

What makes you think barrels are going to be readily available after go time when you are sitting with your large stock of finished lower?

Lol the voice of reason...

 

[Nick Fury]

It’s all about scenarios. An 80% lower really only comes into play after all your other shit got confiscated and yet you still find yourself free to go dig it up. Thats it.

 

[Mountain]

Rather than seeking what you personally need in the most direct way, this reads like one of those overly complicated Dr Evil plans.

No, this would be an overly complicated (yet welcome) Dr. Evil plan:

To Reptile's point, there's really nothing stopping anyone from stocking up. Not a firearm until assembled and capable of firing. Who knows what ban will be next, but I would count on the fact that as the bans get more silly and/or oppressive, average Joe's will ignore said bans at an increasing rate. I seriously doubt the latest bans in Cal have resulted in compliance.

 

[noxin]

$1600's a bit steep when you can get high quality jigs for much less. Personally, I'm going to wait until a system like this hits the $10-20k range. Print the less-critical components in 6061 aluminum and more critical components (including the barrel!) in 17-4 PH.

DD just announced they're moving to 2500/unit soon, if not already, due to Trump's Tariff pissing contest with everyone in the world.

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this in the first place but unless you're a lawyer yourself I'd hesitate to jump to that conclusion. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon but I'd say you'd be putting yourself at risk in several ways - firearms manufacturing without a FFL, constructive possession and very likely more.

The biggest hurdle you have to deal with is intention. The ATF is going to say that the intention was to sell them, but that's a hard one to prove without a pre-established deal in place. Manufacturing for self use is well documented as being legal, even in MA before the edict.

This machine can cut 1911s too. This makes it awesome. Split the cost of the machine with a ghostly friend. Make 20 1911s and 20 ARs. Sell the machine on ebay. Then use the recovered funds rent a boat together and sink it, with all of your completed lowers on board. The cycle of life.

If you're looking for a used one of the units, make sure it's a V2 spindle. That can be confirmed by checking what wrench fits on the spindle. 13mm is a V1 Spindle, 12mm is a V2 spindle (if I'm recalling correctly)

Careful on that. There's some history that says if you rent a machine shop to someone that uses it to "manufacture" a firearm, you are in the business of manufacturing firearms. It's unclear that the GG wouldn't fall in the same category.

True, you can't rent/loan out the equipment, but there's nothing that says you can't sell it to someone.

 

[namedpipes]

Yes, of course, that I understand but the OP said this:

"In the mean time, a person can buy one of these GG machines and crank out hundreds of lowers."

Hundreds. Hundreds of lowers. Good luck convincing a G-man with an attitude you made hundreds of lowers for your own personal use.

I guess that could be seen as a pattern, although I personally could find a practical / personal use for them. Decorations for the living room to make people jelly

Dozens, should be explainable, in particular if they were variation on a theme. Different engraving, perhaps.

As a practical matter, more than a couple dozen lowers are useless anyway, unless you happen to be outfitting a small army.

 

[weekendracer]

When I start prepping for 'what if's', it's going to be parts kits for the guns I already own. Spare springs and firing pins are probably more on my list than a bunch of lowers, that are useless without said parts.

 

[01906]

Ammo

I'm with you there. If SHTF I'd rather 20000 rounds of ammo then 20 lowers.

 

[namedpipes]

I'm with you there. If SHTF I'd rather 20000 rounds of ammo then 20 lowers.

Have both.

 

[01906]

Have both.

The thing is unless you have the parts to finish them. They're worthless. If you looking for trade value. You're better off with a high point carbine or Savage 308 and a 1000 rounds to go with it. I know a lot of people that shoot. In my eyes they don't keep enough ammo on hand. So if SHTF I think ammo would be more valuable than lowers.

 

[babygorilla]

Hope I'm wrong but most LEOs are more pro-pension than they are pro-2a. They will go door to door if that's what it takes to keep their pension intact.

Yeah, but THEY want to spend THEIR pension. Hard to do if you ain't breathing because you kicked down the wrong door.

 

[Varmint]

I'm with you there. If SHTF I'd rather 20000 rounds of ammo then 20 lowers.

What are the odds you’re gonna fire off 20,000 rounds in SHTF without taking one in the gut and dying of sepsis?

The government is likely to be the biggest danger in SHTF, so planning to arm your neighbors might be a good idea.

 

[Keop]

Yeah, but THEY want to spend THEIR pension. Hard to do if you ain't breathing because you kicked down the wrong door.

Couldn't agree more, just look at the "School Resource Officer's" reaction to the Florida school shooting.

 

[01906]

What are the odds you’re gonna fire off 20,000 rounds in SHTF without taking one in the gut and dying of sepsis?

The government is likely to be the biggest danger in SHTF, so planning to arm your neighbors might be a good idea.

I agree. But without the parts to finish them. They're just a hunk of useless aluminum