Crack Copley Mall EOD Team

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I admit that I've become somewhat of a "country bumpkin" since moving to central MA.

In regards to firearms, hunting, and in general people being respectful of each other; it's about as free as you can get and still be in the state.

But, I do have to make the occasional visit to clients in Boston. Yesterday was such a day.

Since my client is close to Copley, I decided to go in and look for a jacket, and grab some food. On the way into the Copley Place Garage, the crack 17 or 18 year old "EOD specialist" was checking every trunk for, presumably, explosives.

Two thoughts occured to me 1) How many rights have we given up in this country just so we can have a false sense of security, 2) This is really violating my constitutional rights, and I don't like it, 3) I'm in a friggin' Volvo wagon - look in the back if you want and leave me the hell alone - and "NO, I'm not opening the back for you", 4) If I were a "T" the secondary switch is rigged to go when the ass clown in mall security opens my trunk!!

Also - in the mall - what's with the "mall commandos" in their black BDUs tucked into their "duty" boots?

Oh, and, there's a Swarovski crystal store? I looked at the sign for the store and got excited thinking there were scopes in the Prudential, but it only led to crushing disappointment!

All in all, I can safely avoid Boston for the next few months - or years for that matter. (No offense menat to any actually city folk).
 
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I've wondered why they bother with the stupid trunk searches in Boston. What a waste...
Just like gun buybacks, it makes the sheep feel like the higher-ups are looking out for us and keeping us safe.

Why actually DO something when you can make people feel just as good by only LOOKING like you're doing something...?
 
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So here's a question...

What is their legal right to search your vehicle? And, if you refuse, can they refuse you entry?

Also, if they try to get tough with me, and take physical action, how much trouble would I be in, when the police showed up, and I was standing there with a pile of mall commando's all beaten up in front of me!
 

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So here's a question...

What is their legal right to search your vehicle? And, if you refuse, can they refuse you entry?

Also, if they try to get tough with me, and take physical action, how much trouble would I be in, when the police showed up, and I was standing there with a pile of mall commando's all beaten up in front of me!
If it's private property they should be able to refuse entry if you don't consent.

But I also believe that a private business owner should be allowed to make his or her own rules on their property.
 

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Agreed. Putting aside the efficacy of trunk searches, which, by the way, have been going on at the Pru for 5 years, the owner of private property has (and should have) the right to impose any conditions (aside from statutorily prohibited class discrimination) he chooses upon entry onto his property. What constitutional rights have you surrendered? None. What constitutional rights would be taken from the landowner if the government required him to let people onto his property? Quite a few.

Distinguish in your mind the difference between not thinking that someone is exercising his rights in a wise way from claiming that he doesn't have the right in the first place.
 
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I think we surrender just a little bit more very day.

Every time we say, "Oh this is OK, open my trunk" or we walk by a security camera in NYC, or we take off our shoes at the airport metal detectors, or any number of other things we do for "security" post 9/11. We ARE surrendering our rights.

It is their property. They may have the right to refuse you entry. They have NO right to search vehicles unless you bend over for them.
 

M1911

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What is their legal right to search your vehicle? And, if you refuse, can they refuse you entry?
It's their private property. If you don't like their rules, you can go somewhere else.

Given what happened at the first attack against the World Trade Center, I'm rather surprised that people here are upset at having security peek into the trunk of their car. Are the guards at these places mindless, minimum-wage drones? Sure they are. But they still might be able to spot a dozen propane tanks tied together.
 

Len-2A Training

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It's their private property. If you don't like their rules, you can go somewhere else.

Given what happened at the first attack against the World Trade Center, I'm rather surprised that people here are upset at having security peek into the trunk of their car. Are the guards at these places mindless, minimum-wage drones? Sure they are. But they still might be able to spot a dozen propane tanks tied together.

Yes, but would they know what they are looking at??? [rolleyes]
 
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I think we surrender just a little bit more very day.

Every time we say, "Oh this is OK, open my trunk" or we walk by a security camera in NYC, or we take off our shoes at the airport metal detectors, or any number of other things we do for "security" post 9/11. We ARE surrendering our rights.

It is their property. They may have the right to refuse you entry. They have NO right to search vehicles unless you bend over for them.
As far as trunk searchs/shoes off at airports...What rights have you lost? You have chosen to do business there, with those "rules", and you have other options...don't want your trunk searched, park somewhere else...don't want to take your shoes off, don't fly commercially...

Don't ask businesses/owners to give up thier rights just because you don't like that business's policy...if anything just don't do business with them anymore...

As far as cameras in NYC go...never been to NYC but I would say it depends where these cameras are...if they are "watching" you in public, whats the problem, you are in public...
 

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As far as trunk searchs/shoes off at airports...What rights have you lost? You have chosen to do business there, with those "rules", and you have other options...don't want your trunk searched, park somewhere else...don't want to take your shoes off, don't fly commercially...
I can understand the private property argument, but with the airlines
this simply doesn't fly. The TSA has "authority" in that regard
now. Whatever they say goes, or doesnt go. And the TSA is a federal
organization. If southwest airlines thought it was okay for CCWs to carry
guns on their plane, they have little to no say in the matter, because they're
governed by the rules of "commercial" air travel.

That, and saying that you have "other options" to avoid such searches
is pretty laughable. They're everywhere now. Being able to
"opt out" of invasive searches still exists, but after a point there
will be no way to avoid them. The damn subway in NYC has random
bag searches as it is. (That's on fuggin PUBLIC TRANSIT, hello?!!? anyone
home? Public Resource? I guess nobody cares.) At the current
trend there will be "gun/bomb sniffer" things installed at supermarkets and malls
in couple of decades or so. If we're lucky we'll only be detained
and harassed for 20 minutes or so before we get told to leave, despite it being
perfectly legal for us to carry a gun into the mall. This "brave
new world" is going to be really fun. [rolleyes]

-Mike
 

drgrant

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It's their private property. If you don't like their rules, you can go somewhere else.

Given what happened at the first attack against the World Trade Center, I'm rather surprised that people here are upset at having security peek into the trunk of their car. Are the guards at these places mindless, minimum-wage drones? Sure they are. But they still might be able to spot a dozen propane tanks tied together.
Yes, and just as they were realizing what they were, they'd get a few
fatal gunshot wounds from the terrorists, or lacking guns, the terrorists
could set off the bomb right there. Obviously not its intended
target, but guess what- It'll still show up on the news, with a bunch of
liberal harpie newscasters whining about it, and the terrorists will
still win, because even a failed attack will still lead to more "pseudo
security". The terrorists do this stuff because they want to punish
us, and they're winning because we're changing the way we live due to
their actions. Essentially with all this fake security, we've capitulated
to their first set of demands. Only more comes next. The terrorists
will keep making us turn up the "security" knob until the country implodes
on itself because it's become suffocated by being obsessed with "security".


-Mike
 

KMaurer

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As far as trunk searchs/shoes off at airports...What rights have you lost? You have chosen to do business there, with those "rules", and you have other options...don't want your trunk searched, park somewhere else...don't want to take your shoes off, don't fly commercially...

Don't ask businesses/owners to give up thier rights just because you don't like that business's policy...if anything just don't do business with them anymore...
The only problem that I have with the airline restrictions is that it's hardly as if it were a private business deciding to impose some rules. If you're going to run a commercial airline, then you have to follow all the rules that the government sets. The business owner has no choice (other than to shut down and go into some other business) and the passenger has no choice (other than do drive, buy or charter a private plane or stay home). Get it out of your head that the restrictions, searches, ID requirements, and other crap one has to undergo in order to fly these days have anything at all to do with the airlines making decisions; they're all government mandates. Even Major Strasser never demanded to see your papers, as long as you never left your house.

Ken
 
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Oh, please, don't start stretching. No one came remotely close to insinuating that.
Not insinuating you did.

Just trying to test M1911's absolute private property rights theory against other scenarios. It came up short in this one.
 
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Well Agusta doesn't allow women members and that was upheld in court.
You're talking about the private golf course? Don't private clubs have more leeway than a "public" store (even though privately owned)?
 
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gotcha, good test. Forgot about that case, hi profile corp women were miffed they couldn't hang with the boys.
 
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