Court rules Student debt is dischargeable in Bankruptcy

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
15,824
Likes
8,018
Location
North Shore, MA
There is no ethical or socially beneficial reason that student loans can not be discharged by bankruptcy, that was entirely the product of some kind of bribery and lobbying
of congress-scumbags to give a gift to the college loan industry. It should never have happened, and was a multi-trillion dollar disaster of a wealth transfer from vulnerable people to bankers and the finance 'industry'. I have not heard of any other kind of loan that has that kind of backing by the government to collect on.
very true, but there are many other examples. Take the repo market program - the Federal Reserve is using billions in taxpayer-backed loans to keep hedge funds afloat, by offering them cheap overnight lending when banks won't do it.
 

The5thDentist

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
7   0   0
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Messages
11,018
Likes
23,825
Location
The Karenwealth of Assachusetts
The student loan situtation is proof positive that the overwhelming majority of young people of college entrance age are incapable of making sound decisions......

No, they're not. The mind isn't fully developed until you are in your early 20s, and the way the education system is set up, I truly believe that sitting in class for at least 6 hrs/day stunts mental development. That plus a lack of real-world experience, and how can we expect 99% of 17-18 year olds to make sound decisions?

Of course people are taking on huge debts.

Plus, nobody talks about the consequences.

I remember the mantra when I was a teen in the 80s.
"Gotta go to a good high school to get into a good college. Gotta go to a good college to get into a good grad school or get a good job.". What a crock.

The reality is I would have been better off either not going to college and start a landscaping company, or learn a trade at the voke.

Yea, I enjoy what I do, but the cost to do what I do was very high 20 years ago, and now it's more than double what I paid.

Plus, the HVAC guy doesn't have to devote resources to getting paid from the air conditioning insurance.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
56
Likes
61
I went to college for free......100% free.

Got an A.S., B.S., and a MBA all paid for the companies I worked for.

Books were included - I paid for transportation and put in the time.

No loans.
My son got a free ride, academic based, books included. Quit after 4 days, joined the Marines, got extensive training in...what he does...then got his degree at a mil.oriented college, in Md. Started off well into 6 figures at the fort he was last stationed at. He laughs at people "thanking him for his service" as he got paid to get trained doing what he loves, and got the experience under his belt quicker as a Marine than a college kid.
My sister went to Tufts, Univ. of London and George Washington school of law. Scholarships early on plus loans, Navy picked up her law degree. She paid $700/month for 30 freaking years paying off those loans, but now as a Navy Capt. and partner in a law firm, as well as part time judge, those bills are a distant memory. I still laugh calling her "the girl who needs 3 jobs to make ends meet"...then I look at her Navy pension, and hope she remembers big brother while spending some of it.
Personally, after bouncing around at Uconn, I ended up in a cert. program in a field that's treated me pretty well for 37 years now. Got into my field the day of my first class when my shop saw my interest, then they picked up the tab.
 

TLB

Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
6,145
Likes
4,705
Location
Heading for greener pastures
Do it...seriously. If more people take out loans and then later file bankruptcy, it will make loans harder to get because they will be a lot more picky on to whom they loan money. This will also shrink the market for candidates who try and go to school which will cause the schools to lower tuition.

The .gov also needs to get out of the loan business as well.
Your conversion sounds almost complete!
Welcome to the dark side Blindfire!
 

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
37,747
Likes
15,844
The worse are the ones that give out a scholarship but force students to pay for a dorm which costs almost as much as the scholarship they received.
"Scholarships" good at only one school that are less than 100% aren't. (Scholarships, that it). They are "discounts off retail to close the sale".

Nobody calls it "financial aid" when they loan you money to buy a car from them, or offer you a discount off retail to close the deal. If they did, the FTC would shut that down right quick. Notice how stealerships NEVER use the word "sale" to avoid deceptive advertising charges, they are always "events" or "saleathons", never just "sales".
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
11,498
Likes
4,258
The student loan situtation is proof positive that the overwhelming majority of young people of college entrance age are incapable of making sound decisions......
I point that out any time someone argues that we should lower the voting age. The college debt problem is the epitome of what you get when you give young people such power without the appropriate education and information to go along with it.
 

quincy

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
2,343
Likes
743
Location
Quincy MA
In the end, all that will happen is it will be harder to get student loans and people without the savings to pay for college won't be able to go.
Then maybe we won’t have to pay $500 an hour for someone to fix our toilets or install a light switch.
 

quincy

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
2,343
Likes
743
Location
Quincy MA
From the Herald

Newly released state payroll records for 2019 also show 16,599 employees in the University of Massachusetts system and throughout state government pulled down $100,000 or more — a 20% jump from the previous year driven in part by overtime work.
If ZooMass was a tit, we would be building an ark for all the milk.
 

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
37,747
Likes
15,844
IIRC, student loan debt was made so it couldn't be discharged in bankruptcy in exchange for the government backing loans, making them available to everyone.
It was also in in response to strategic bankruptcies. Many new grads worked the numbers and figured out they were better off in the long term not paying the loan and waiting for the bankruptcy to roll off the credit report in a decade than being a debt slave for several decades. 10 years after filing, the bankrupt student was far better off than the one who paid his bills.
 

NickLeduc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
65   0   0
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
1,621
Likes
2,194
Location
Inman, SC
I'm a pilot. I care a lot about CB's.
That's the problem. We are teaching everyone to be a pilot. Instead of teaching them its OK to be the fuel guy or the mechanic. The education system is broken. Im all for more vocational schools. I would also go as far as removing all arts/gym/music from schools. But that's a whole new topic. I honestly couldn't think of many careers that needed clouds, completely forgot about pilots to be honest. Maybe they would have taught me that if I went to college.
 

GaryO

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
13,012
Likes
5,414
Location
Franklin
So my daughters are foolish for actually working hard and paying off their college loans. I'm guessing that most people who will use bankruptcy don't really have a work ethic.
My Dad got his electrical license by driving for coca cola during the day, going to school at night and working overnight as a gas station attendant, he would see my mother and his kids on the weekends until he graduated.
I instilled that ethic into my kids.
 
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
12,172
Likes
3,042
Location
NH
This won't "open the floodgates" at all. He represented himself, which he was easily able to do because of his law background. This meant it was essentially free (minus court fees). He also filed an "adversary proceeding" which are not cheap for an attorney to follow through on. I saw in a different article that such work can cost $5K to $10K in attorneys fees. For someone making $38K/year, that is an insurmountable amount to have to pay up front.

Rosenberg began by looking into the different tests that judges use to identify whether a debtor is deserving of a discharge, identifying the Brunner test as an important one. He also decided to pursue the case as his own legal counsel.

“When I was looking at hiring a lawyer to do it for me, I was getting quotes of around $40,000 because the lawyers see it as this really hard, arduous process,” he explained. “Maybe with this myth shattered, they'll lower what they charge. They were looking at it like it's an endless thing. And it's going to be lots of work and appeals and all this stuff.”

Rosenberg filed for bankruptcy under chapter 7 in 2018. He also filed an adversary proceeding, which is essentially a civil lawsuit, against the New York State Higher Education Services Corporation. He said he was called to court five or six times for hearings on top of a deposition and an expert witness interview. Documents were produced and read. And both sides filed a summary judgement.

On January 7, 2020, Chief U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Cecelia G. Morris made her decision: Rosenberg’s summary judgment asking the court to declare his student debt dischargeable was granted.
 

NickLeduc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
65   0   0
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
1,621
Likes
2,194
Location
Inman, SC
So my daughters are foolish for actually working hard and paying off their college loans. I'm guessing that most people who will use bankruptcy don't really have a work ethic.
My Dad got his electrical license by driving for coca cola during the day, going to school at night and working overnight as a gas station attendant, he would see my mother and his kids on the weekends until he graduated.
I instilled that ethic into my kids.
Your father probably also bought a house for pennies on the dollar compared to today's dollar and his schooling was a fraction of today's cost. Not to mention, your father probably could support his whole family on a single income.
 

Picton

NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
12,899
Likes
13,719
Location
MA
Your father probably also bought a house for pennies on the dollar compared to today's dollar and his schooling was a fraction of today's cost. Not to mention, your father probably could support his whole family on a single income.
I was gonna say.

My grandpa paid his way through UCLA in the 1930s... by doing a paper route.

Good luck with that today.
 

42!

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,599
Likes
5,293
That loud popping noise we should hear soon is going to be the explosion of the tuition loan bubble.
Unlikely, the loans are guaranteed by the Gov. The bankruptcy may let the borrower off, but then the Gov is on the hook to the loan company. So the overpriced education that resulted from Gov guaranteed loans will continue, but now the student can walk away.
 

Boris

Son of Kalashnikov
NES Member
Rating - 100%
21   0   0
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
19,804
Likes
17,554
Location
Back from Motherland
I went to college for free......100% free.
Got an A.S., B.S., and a MBA all paid for the companies I worked for.
Books were included - I paid for transportation and put in the time.
No loans.
Those days are gone. A lot more companies used to offer great benefits including continued education and training. That's not the trend now.

Fuque college! It's great for enrichment, enlightenment, and some knowledge if you stay away from psychology, sociology, ethnic studies, and lesbian studies (unless they're really hot). I was in the 2nd tier of history-great, important topic, but not for indebtedness for 4 generations. My doctor, who's over 60, paid off his loans for med school only 10 years ago.
I had some great profs in college. Humanities wasn't my major and I would not take those voluntarily, but in retrospect they were the most enjoyed courses. Do they add value? Does a well rounded person makes more or enjoys his life more?


The other problem is that middleclass in this country is f***ed and it looks like the orange man has no desire to fix it. I'm not sure that tradesmen will fare any better, they are just slimmer piece of the pie to be consumed and stolen from, but it's coming alright.
 

MisterHappy

NES Member
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
22,356
Likes
7,607
Location
On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
The truly sad part is that it's not just here. A couple of weeks back, on NPR, they were in in (IIRC) Lagos, Nigeria, interviewing a young man that was going to college, to get an engineering degree. The interviewer thought that was pretty good.

"No. It is not good. I am only getting this degree to make money. I am not able to follow my dreams."

It's not just Americans that are entitled.
 

blindfire

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
16,001
Likes
4,371
Your conversion sounds almost complete!
Welcome to the dark side Blindfire!
Heh...thanks. Don't worry...I still think gay marriage is ok and legal. Can't have you thinking I've completely left the liberal side! lol
 

blindfire

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
16,001
Likes
4,371
The truly sad part is that it's not just here. A couple of weeks back, on NPR, they were in in (IIRC) Lagos, Nigeria, interviewing a young man that was going to college, to get an engineering degree. The interviewer thought that was pretty good.

"No. It is not good. I am only getting this degree to make money. I am not able to follow my dreams."

It's not just Americans that are entitled.
Funny you say that. My 15 year old daughter still doesn't know what she wants to do after high school. (Yeah...I know...a lot of kids are this way and I shouldn't panic too much, but I do).

Anyway, at one point she said she wanted to teach but moved away from that. Then she said she like library sciences. I told her unless she got a job with a private company, she should just get used to being poor. :) Is it good to have a job you love? Yes...but is it good to make money to support your lifestyle? Most definitely YES!
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
4,704
Likes
4,653
Location
NC defending a beach
Why do you say That?
Because it would have been better if he had just gone bankrupt. Instead, he served and was paid less than he deserved, but in exchange he got money or loans for school.

now, just go to school, and then declare bankruptcy. You’ll own a home and be free and clear by age 30.

playing by their rules hurts you. Use their rules.
 

Varmint

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
15,824
Likes
8,018
Location
North Shore, MA
You and I will pay that debt, not the bloated colleges.
This is pre 2009 thinking. The government learned around 2009 that it no longer needs to increase taxes to have all the spending it wants. It simply has the Federal Reserve print the money to pay for its spending, via QE, TARP, REPO, whatever - the name changes but it's just monetization of the federal deficits.

This has the added effect of devaluing the massive debt it already has on the books by devaluing the dollar. The Fed doctors the official inflation numbers so the public doesn't notice, or at least they don't understand why they're living paycheck to paycheck - they will blame corporations and the 1% rather than the government that is focking them in the behind.

So no, we won't pay that debt, not with taxes anyway.
 
Top Bottom