The papers are describing Adam Lanza's mother as an "avid gun collector." Now, if she knew her son had mental issues — and it appears she did — why weren't her guns locked up where he couldn't get at them?
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Could the mother have prevented this tragedy?
- Thread starter Rob893
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Because maybe they were and he snag the key/combo. Maybe she was killed because she tried to stop him.
umd0808
NES Member
I'm guessing it's kind of hard to keep your guns locked up when you are killed (I haven't had to try it yet).
You really need to STOP blaming the victim of a crime.
usp45ct
NES Member
what Rob893 is suggesting is that she should have locked them up prior to getting killed, so perhaps she would not have gotten killed.
Look, I'm only saying that responsible gun owners are taught to keep their weapons locked up, out of the reach of children, criminals, and wackos. If I knew one of my family members had mental issues, you can be damn sure they wouldn't have the combinations to my safes.
The tragedy happened because the wrong person had illegal access to lawful weapons. Not because someone had lawful weapons. That's all I'm saying.
They haven't said if they were locked up or not. They also have not said if he showed violent tendencies. As burgers disease can show as simple tremendous immaturity and lack of social acceptance. It doesn't mean the kid was violent.
June4th
NES Member
Mothers tend to see their sons in the best possible light, so she most likely wouldn't perceive such things remotely possible. Also, she might have given him the safe combo so that he could use guns for self defense if needed. I know if I have a 16-yr old son with an FID, I'd give him the safe combo (I be the judge of his character deem this suitable, of course).
umd0808
NES Member
You're assuming that he had free access to the guns. I think that's a bold assumption to make. I suppose I am assuming that like every other gun owner I know, she took the steps to properly store her guns. Who knows maybe I'm wrong.
The bottom line is, regardless of how the guns were stored, a safe is not going to keep someone from getting their hands on your stuff. It only delays them/makes them work a little harder for it.
yeah but he also killed her, whether he knew the combo or had keys, etc.--he could have utilized violence or the threat of violence to gain access to the firearms anyway.
shooter is solely responsible. the mother should not have been punished by not being able to own guns because her son was a crazy ****.
She had 5 guns. Even I'm not an "avid gun collector" and I have many more than that. The guns used in the crime were run of the mill. Certainly not collector grade.
I ponder the reasoning of teaching your mentally ill child how to get at the guns in the event of a collapse of society.
Excuse me, Umd0808, I think that Rob893 has a legitimate question.
Based on the reporting that has been done so far, the mother clearly realized the condition her son was in and, if it were me with a child like him, I would have had the firearms out of the house for the time being. That's not to say the kid wouldn't have found some other way to obtain them or some other destructive device but in this case she made herself the victim if she didn't do everything in her power to disable the firearms and lock up ammo with an unstable adult child living with her so she did pay the ultimate price for her lapse. How can I say that? Because no matter what effort she may have taken to lock things up the kid got into them anyway so it wasn't enough and now the entire country has placed a magnifying glass on the entire firearms industry. If you had an alcoholic child you wouldn't leave booze around, either so they can't go out and kill innocents with the family car.
We still don't know any of the real details yet. Frankly, I'm not convinced that she bought the rifle or the pistols. They just aren't what a woman would nornally buy but a man, yes. So, is it possible that the handguns and rifle belong to the father but were left behind at the house for some reason? We don't know. We don't know anything yet. There is still a lot to tell here and only then will we able to see where the facts take us. It's enough to say now that if the rifle and handguns had been unavailable, they wouldn't have perpetrated such an evil crime on their own.
Rome
Based on the reporting that has been done so far, the mother clearly realized the condition her son was in and, if it were me with a child like him, I would have had the firearms out of the house for the time being. That's not to say the kid wouldn't have found some other way to obtain them or some other destructive device but in this case she made herself the victim if she didn't do everything in her power to disable the firearms and lock up ammo with an unstable adult child living with her so she did pay the ultimate price for her lapse. How can I say that? Because no matter what effort she may have taken to lock things up the kid got into them anyway so it wasn't enough and now the entire country has placed a magnifying glass on the entire firearms industry. If you had an alcoholic child you wouldn't leave booze around, either so they can't go out and kill innocents with the family car.
We still don't know any of the real details yet. Frankly, I'm not convinced that she bought the rifle or the pistols. They just aren't what a woman would nornally buy but a man, yes. So, is it possible that the handguns and rifle belong to the father but were left behind at the house for some reason? We don't know. We don't know anything yet. There is still a lot to tell here and only then will we able to see where the facts take us. It's enough to say now that if the rifle and handguns had been unavailable, they wouldn't have perpetrated such an evil crime on their own.
Rome
I had to turn away my own brother who needed a place to live when he got out of jail on house arrest. Because even with a safe, containing the firearms, I refused to put him in my home with 24 hours a day access to figure out how to get it open if he ever wanted to.
Common sense. And I dont want my stuff stolen.
Common sense. And I dont want my stuff stolen.
2 things come to mind. one practical and the other one, sure to piss people off but I give up.
- safes only keep honest people honest - for all we know, she thought to give her kid the combination, fearing doomsday. I dont know.
- secondly could she have prevented the tragedy? yeah, its called abortion. Proactive or retroactive, this pile of miswired goo should never have been among the general population. Im only sad that someone didn't take his sorry ass out before he went and massacred the kids.
seriously, you have to be ****ing charlie carrots to for one, murder your own mother (who knows, maybe an oedipal thing going on too) but to kill kids? seriously? kids? ****ing demented subhuman.
There's a lot to be said about the old days and the fact that we can't institutionalize people only leads to more tragedy or just the homeless guy rubbing his meatstick against your wife on the orange line. Some people are too miswired for the public good.
bring back the sanitarium.
rant mode off. Hate helmet on.
- safes only keep honest people honest - for all we know, she thought to give her kid the combination, fearing doomsday. I dont know.
- secondly could she have prevented the tragedy? yeah, its called abortion. Proactive or retroactive, this pile of miswired goo should never have been among the general population. Im only sad that someone didn't take his sorry ass out before he went and massacred the kids.
seriously, you have to be ****ing charlie carrots to for one, murder your own mother (who knows, maybe an oedipal thing going on too) but to kill kids? seriously? kids? ****ing demented subhuman.
There's a lot to be said about the old days and the fact that we can't institutionalize people only leads to more tragedy or just the homeless guy rubbing his meatstick against your wife on the orange line. Some people are too miswired for the public good.
bring back the sanitarium.
rant mode off. Hate helmet on.
You don't know what the circumstances were, so don't assume that they were or weren't locked up. You also don't know the facts about this kids mental illness, either.
Also, the guy was an adult with access to a whole ton of info on the internet from how to break into safes and locks to how to build a bomb with a trunk full of fertilizer. Unliess Home Depot starts doing background checks, determined mass-murderers are going to find a way to commit mass-murder.
This kind of BS about blaming the victim (She was killed too, remember), atleast until the facts indicate that she did something deliberately wrong, has got to stop.
It should go back to basic commen sense - was it reasonable to have the guns (or any other weapon) in the house based on her son's behavioral problems? I don't know the answer, but trying to arrive at a concrete rule is an exercise in futility. The answer will always change based on the particular set of facts.
All of these threads related to the CT shooting go to one fundamental human flaw - the desire to be in control and create predictable situations that we can wrap our minds around. People do not want to (or maybe can't) accept that human behavior is unpredictable. Passing laws or rules will never change that. Time to accept that we have little to no control of others and move on. Let the entropy continue to increase!
All of these threads related to the CT shooting go to one fundamental human flaw - the desire to be in control and create predictable situations that we can wrap our minds around. People do not want to (or maybe can't) accept that human behavior is unpredictable. Passing laws or rules will never change that. Time to accept that we have little to no control of others and move on. Let the entropy continue to increase!
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TZCHRIS
NES Member
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Not gonna lie... That's some sexist shit. >.> Please tell me what kind of rifle would be more suitable for women?
AK: "just the homeless guy rubbing his meatstick against your wife on the orange line."
Dude I just spit my coffee on my keyboard![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
On a serious note I'm with Rob on this one. Moving past how he got them or where they were. Somewhere in this media mess it was said the mother took him to the range in an attempt to, "Bond". Really ? WTF She know's full well the kids has, "Issues". How about ****ing bowling or fishing. I'm all about finding common ground with a loved one but you need to use a little common sense.
Dude I just spit my coffee on my keyboard
On a serious note I'm with Rob on this one. Moving past how he got them or where they were. Somewhere in this media mess it was said the mother took him to the range in an attempt to, "Bond". Really ? WTF She know's full well the kids has, "Issues". How about ****ing bowling or fishing. I'm all about finding common ground with a loved one but you need to use a little common sense.
If you want to blame the mother for the child she raised, I think you need to ignore firearms and look to much deeper issues.
That is not to say that mental illness is all "nurture" there are definitely disorders that are defects of development or a result of injury and I have no idea what proportion of each this case involves, but one way or another parents are responsible for their children and ensuring that they do not become a threat to society.
That is not to say that mental illness is all "nurture" there are definitely disorders that are defects of development or a result of injury and I have no idea what proportion of each this case involves, but one way or another parents are responsible for their children and ensuring that they do not become a threat to society.
She was after all dead so I guess she couldn't protect the key. If someone broke into your house and stole your guns can we blame an prosocute you?
Were also just assuming that wasn't the case,the only two people that knew how he got the weapons was Adam and his mother. And there both dead!
Take a nutter kid with high IQ, all it takes is one shoulder surf to get a combo to get into the best safe money can buy.
If we take this to the logical extreme, someone will be saying gun owners need safes with retinal and fingerprint scans, including a heartbeat monitor to insure the legal owner is still alive.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
-Mike
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In between all the leg humping around here and this, this is why there are only a handful of women who participate here on a regular basis.
Seriously?
-Mike
Right now, we have no idea as to the security of the guns in that house. If there was a safe, chances are it could have been opened by an intelligent and determined 20 year-old. There are countless YouTube videos describing how to defeat safes. In fact, there's an underground movement which has spawned from computer hacking that treats safecracking as a hobby. It appeals to their "expose flaws in the system to bring praise on yourself" mentality. Truth be told, I've learned a lot from some of the videos and it has really helped me in selecting a safe.
first let me say...only five firearms?? ![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
And fine choices for a woman too. ![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
I find it suspect that it is not yet publicly known if they were locked up in some fashion. This makes me believe they were. Because if they weren't, I think the authorities would have said so right away to further the gun-grabbing agenda.![[tinfoil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/tinfoilhatsmile.gif "Tinfoil Hat [tinfoil]")
And fine choices for a woman too. I find it suspect that it is not yet publicly known if they were locked up in some fashion. This makes me believe they were. Because if they weren't, I think the authorities would have said so right away to further the gun-grabbing agenda.
So he got the key after he killed her? That's what you're saying?
Bullchit, if one of my sons turns out to be mentally ill and violent, I will NOT store any guns in the house. It is her fault and she received fitting punishment.
Chris
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Exactly, firearms are not the issue here, poor judgement is.
Chris
Whoa, jump back. That's not what I'm saying at all, so don't leap to conclusions and don't put words in my mouth. I'm not blaming the mother for the child she raised, I'm asking whether she might have been negligent in allowing him, in some way, access to those weapons. Two things seem clear:
1. The mother was at the school.
2. The son got the weapons from her home.
The questions I'm asking are
1. How did he get them?
2. Were they locked up?
3. Did he have a key or a combination?
4. If so, why?
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