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CO's Considered LEO's?
- Thread starter MJL0618
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Rockrivr1
NES Member
I would say no. While the COs perform a critical function in the law enforcement process, I don't consider them LEOs. Not a slight what so ever. The training for a CO is different then a LEO and in some cases I think COs are better equiped to deal with the more dangerous elements of our society. It's the same argument between MA Sheriffs and LEOs. If Sheriffs were considered LEOs, they'd be given ticketing abilities as they are on the road in their transport vehicles.
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
My former neighbor worked as a CO at MCI-Concord. Special state police while on duty in the correctional facility itself and while escorting an inmate to and from court, hospital or other destination. Can possess/carry firearms while on prisoner escort duty outside the walls and in the guard towers (AR-15s and slug-loaded Remington 870s in the towers). Within the walls, all they can carry are keys and a radio; no firearms or other weapons because of the danger of being jumped and disarmed by inmates. No off-duty authority, like a regular police officer would have in his/her town or state. Easier to get LTC-A-ALP for carry of a personal firearm off-duty because of the nature of the job and threats against CO's family. Not as much "professional courtesy" extended during a traffic stop; cops consider CO's to be prison guards or screws, maybe a couple of small steps above a mall cop or night watchman.
they have to be sworn as LEO's. I know Suffolk County CO's have to be sworn as deputy sheriffs to do details and carry a weapon.
Same with Essex, the CO's that transport prisoners are allowed to carry guns, a guard at Middleton can't.
For the purposes of buying guns we can't, I'd say no, as far as the state retirement system goes, yes they are classified the same as a LEO, As far as LEPA, unless they have the credentials issued by the department I'd say no.
Same with Essex, the CO's that transport prisoners are allowed to carry guns, a guard at Middleton can't.
For the purposes of buying guns we can't, I'd say no, as far as the state retirement system goes, yes they are classified the same as a LEO, As far as LEPA, unless they have the credentials issued by the department I'd say no.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Yeah, that's true. There are so many different statuses a CO can fall into in MA that it's tough to make a blanket yes or no statement. I'd say that a CO acting in the function of a CO, behind the wall, is not a LEO. A CO that has deputy authority and is on the road is an entirely different matter...sorta gray area.
Sheriffs and Corrections Officers are NOT Police Officers in Massachusetts. In most other states, Sheriffs perform Police functions, and ARE Police Officers. Here, they are not. Many Police Officers in Massachusetts don't care for the fact that any hack who wants to donate $50 to the local Sheriff's political campaign can get a shiny Sheriff's badge, which they all try to flaunt at every traffic stop. I have seen guys who are plumbers, electricians, hell, even a groundskeeper at a jail can get a Sheriff's badge. Like it or not, this is the truth.
I'm not a LEO nor am I a CO, but IMO they are two completely different things. I do not consider a CO as an LEO, just like I do not consider an LEO a CO. Yes they are both called officers, yes they both deal with scumbags on a daily basis, but they are two completely different occupations with completely different duties.
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There are two questions:
1 - Are Sheriffs and CO's legally LEOs with the resulting legal impact (for example, being able to carry on school grounds without permission from the school; being able to charge someone who hits them with assault on a police officer, etc.)
2 - Are Sheriffs and CO's culturally accepted as LEOs by the police community.
The answers to #1 and #2 above may differ.
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
I did see Middlesex County deputies in Lowell, performing traffic control duties during some function (I think that it was a charity run or distance walk). The comments in the Lowell Sun from the Lowell Police officers were not good. Clearly, they looked down upon these interlopers intruding upon their turf. Sheriff DiPaola determined that he did have the authority to put his men on the street, regardless of what the Lowell cops thought. The Bristol sheriff did the same thing in New Bedford after an uptick in crime. The New Bedford PD didn't take too kindly to it and went to court to get an injunction to stop the sheriff from doing so. Apparently, the court agreed that the sheriff does, in fact, have the authority to send his sworn deputies on patrol in cities/towns within his county. Deputies do not have the authority to make traffic stops and write tickets, however.
Big Daddy 45acp
Instructor
I was read somewhere that Mass Public Safety now recognizes State COs as LEO.
I have always considered COs part of the LEO community, even though most cops will deny that they are.
The pecking order generally works like this:
FBI looks down on every other agency.
Other Fed agencies look down on each other and state agencies.
State agencies look down on the local (city, town, county).
Locals look down on the screws (State and county.)
State screws look down on County screws.
County screws look down on the hacks.
The hacks look down on everyone, including the FBI, because they have no clue and think they are Super Cops!
You will get a bunch of varying answers here, due to our diverse membership and this IS Massachusetts. Unlike California, where State COs are Peace Officers by statute, just in a different category.
I have always considered COs part of the LEO community, even though most cops will deny that they are.
The pecking order generally works like this:
FBI looks down on every other agency.
Other Fed agencies look down on each other and state agencies.
State agencies look down on the local (city, town, county).
Locals look down on the screws (State and county.)
State screws look down on County screws.
County screws look down on the hacks.
The hacks look down on everyone, including the FBI, because they have no clue and think they are Super Cops!
You will get a bunch of varying answers here, due to our diverse membership and this IS Massachusetts. Unlike California, where State COs are Peace Officers by statute, just in a different category.
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OK we have to leave the "50 Dollar Sheriff's" out of the equation, I am talking full time and or reserve Deputy Sheriffs.
My best friend was a reserve deputy in Middlesex County, which IMHO was a step above 50 dollar sheriff, but he had a MCSD sanctioned Harley police bike, with blue lights and all the toys, MCSD markings and a RMV issued blue light permit for it, compliments of Jim D. He worked Parades, Funeral Escorts, Motorcycle rides, the Democratic Convention, the Marathon, etc, in full uniform and a Glock 22 on his side.
He had to attend schools, training days, and had to qualify with his firearm.
I have another friend who works at a CO in Essex County, and he had to go through all sorts of training before he could transport prisoners to court from the Jail, because he was armed. IIRC he might have been sworn as a deputy.
I have another friend who is a full time deputy in Middlesex, he is on the team that kicks in doors at 5 AM, he IMHO is considered an LEO, where the CO's in the HOC are not.
Andrea Cabral ruffled some feathers when she took over in Suffolk, because jail guards who were also sworn as Deputies, did not get re appointed when their terms were up or something like that, and that took them out of the Big Dig detail pool, among other things. They were NOT happy.
Unless the Sheriffs Dept, or Mass Department of Corrections specifically swears you in as a police officer, including the Academy training course that is required by law to be sworn as a LEO in MA, I wouldn't consider them to be LEO for the purpose of buying firearms, or carrying a gun "on the badge" in juristictions outside of MA under Federal law.
I worked with guys that were sworn as "Specials" by the State PD, with no chapter 90 powers, no authorization to carry a gun, a once a year training session, and they were badged as " Masachusetts Street Railway Police". I don't think any of them were trying to carry guns on the badge, but the reason they all had to turn in their badges and warrants of appointment was too many of them were claiming to be cops to get out of jams, including one guy who was busted soliciting a undercover female officer, and then claimed to be T PD whenn he was busted.
P.S Sheriffs and their sworn Deputies have more Police powers than police do, and they don't mind telling you that, which is why local cops hate them, especially when the county guys are working road details.
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
Cabral got pissed off because she was responsible for paying a multi-million-dollar judgment for incidents that happened at the HOC on her predecessor's watch. A group of women filed a class-action lawsuit because they were stripped-searched, bodily-cavity-searched, perhaps finger-banged, who knows? One of the arrested women was in the HOC for selling food from a pushcart with an expired peddler's license. Federal Judge Nancy Gertner awarded them double-digit interest on top of the millions, which just about busted Cabral's annual budget. Mad as hell, she decided to make her people pay for their actions and strip them of their LE powers.
you might want to read this. the lawsuit by the de certified Deputies
http://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?n=08-1683&s=ma&d=39327
On November 29, 2002, the governor appointed the defendant as Sheriff to complete an unexpired term. Shortly thereafter, she commissioned the plaintiffs, among others, as deputy sheriffs. See Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 37, § 3. A deputy-sheriff commission is not a prerequisite for service as a jail officer. Some jail officers hold such commissions; others do not.
Starting in the spring of 2003, the defendant became embroiled in an acrimonious contractual dispute with the JOEA. That dispute spilled over into the political arena. As a result, the JOEA disseminated mass mailings and a press release soliciting support for its cause. To add insult to injury, the JOEA endorsed Stephen J. Murphy, the defendant's opponent in the 2004 Democratic primary for election as Sheriff.
The plaintiffs all participated in the campaign (albeit to varying degrees). Three of them — Grennon, Barnes, and Ellis — played key roles in the propagation of mailings and a press release calumnizing the defendant. A fourth, Moscone, raised funds for Murphy's campaign coffers, contributed money of his own, and made telephone calls to assist Murphy's bid for election. A fifth, Lynch, attended at least one Murphy fundraiser. The sixth, Bergeron, held a sign advocating Murphy's election at a polling place in West Roxbury on primary day.
Despite the plaintiffs' efforts, the defendant won the primary and ran unopposed in the November general election. Her first full term as Sheriff commenced on January 5, 2005. Approximately three months later, she rescinded the plaintiffs' commissions and transferred several of them to less desirable assignments.
http://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?n=08-1683&s=ma&d=39327
On November 29, 2002, the governor appointed the defendant as Sheriff to complete an unexpired term. Shortly thereafter, she commissioned the plaintiffs, among others, as deputy sheriffs. See Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 37, § 3. A deputy-sheriff commission is not a prerequisite for service as a jail officer. Some jail officers hold such commissions; others do not.
Starting in the spring of 2003, the defendant became embroiled in an acrimonious contractual dispute with the JOEA. That dispute spilled over into the political arena. As a result, the JOEA disseminated mass mailings and a press release soliciting support for its cause. To add insult to injury, the JOEA endorsed Stephen J. Murphy, the defendant's opponent in the 2004 Democratic primary for election as Sheriff.
The plaintiffs all participated in the campaign (albeit to varying degrees). Three of them — Grennon, Barnes, and Ellis — played key roles in the propagation of mailings and a press release calumnizing the defendant. A fourth, Moscone, raised funds for Murphy's campaign coffers, contributed money of his own, and made telephone calls to assist Murphy's bid for election. A fifth, Lynch, attended at least one Murphy fundraiser. The sixth, Bergeron, held a sign advocating Murphy's election at a polling place in West Roxbury on primary day.
Despite the plaintiffs' efforts, the defendant won the primary and ran unopposed in the November general election. Her first full term as Sheriff commenced on January 5, 2005. Approximately three months later, she rescinded the plaintiffs' commissions and transferred several of them to less desirable assignments.
Chris
NES Member
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My understanding is that because the Sheriff is an elected position, they actually have a tremendous amount of authority over their region. Not sure exactly what that authority is and what it entails, but I remember reading something about this not that long ago.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Read "The County Sheriff, America's Last Hope" by Sheriff Richard Mack
or search him on youtube.com for a video of him. He explains the powers of the sheriff, as upheld by the US Supreme Court.
^^^^^^
Couldn't have said it better myself. CO's or screws are considered LEO's we have a special state police commission and have arresting powers. Some(Cops) will still say CO's aren't LEO's but I'm not 100% positive who it was (I think it was George Bush) passed a bill stating CO's are now considered LEO''s.
LEO status requires that you take an oath, which in turn grants you certain authority. Without this, you are not legally a law enforcement officer. County sheriffs have the authority to swear in their personnel as deputy sheriffs, and some line COs take advantage of this. Policies and procedures for getting deputized vary by county, and there are some bids within the agency that require an officer to be sworn as a deputy sheriff. Just working for a law enforcement agency or sheriffs department does not make you a law enforcement officer...there are plenty of secretaries and community service personnel out there who may even have an ID card that reads "Police Department", but they have never been sworn in. If you're a CO, reserve/auxiliary officer, or similar, you're a LEO once you take the oath...keep in mind that this only gives you statutory powers and not necessarily respect.
My two cents are this:
When it comes to actual full time legit CO's either working in the jails or prisons, they can be dumbed up to special Police Officers. There is really no technical absolute for them in this state, it depends on what road there on, for what reason, in what context, who there with, what mood the govenor is in, who's a*s they've kissed and a trillion different factors which determine when and where they are considered Police Officers.
Now for what I think is the more important factor:
Should we consider them Police Officers and a member of the community?
I think we should. The fact is this, no Cop who has been doing the job for a bit wants the job the CO's have. No way. Its like their serving the time with the scuzballs. When it comes to the idealistic point of view, "good versus evil, us versus them, the good guys and the bad guys" they are an intrical part.
Do cops in the Northeast give CO's that respect, unfortunately not. I work with many who will treat a CO like any other civilian. I do not agree with it, but it is the way it is. This however is not completely on the Sworn LEO's. Correction departments around here have a reputation for,"taking anyone". It is a common joke that if you can't become a cop, then go be a CO. I have no idea he vetting process for either the Jails or Prisons, but Local and State Cops do not believe there is much of one. I have had NUMEROUS incidents with CO's who have no business being apart of the blue line and should be on the other side of the walll. These negative experiences are common among LEOs to COs but some cops paint the whole group as trouble.
I have met some great CO's and many of whom believe in what they do. They are hard workers and day in and day out show up and do their thing.
I consider them a part of the Blue Line and I treat them like Cops.......even when they get pulled over for driving like absolute a*s clowns.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
When it comes to actual full time legit CO's either working in the jails or prisons, they can be dumbed up to special Police Officers. There is really no technical absolute for them in this state, it depends on what road there on, for what reason, in what context, who there with, what mood the govenor is in, who's a*s they've kissed and a trillion different factors which determine when and where they are considered Police Officers.
Now for what I think is the more important factor:
Should we consider them Police Officers and a member of the community?
I think we should. The fact is this, no Cop who has been doing the job for a bit wants the job the CO's have. No way. Its like their serving the time with the scuzballs. When it comes to the idealistic point of view, "good versus evil, us versus them, the good guys and the bad guys" they are an intrical part.
Do cops in the Northeast give CO's that respect, unfortunately not. I work with many who will treat a CO like any other civilian. I do not agree with it, but it is the way it is. This however is not completely on the Sworn LEO's. Correction departments around here have a reputation for,"taking anyone". It is a common joke that if you can't become a cop, then go be a CO. I have no idea he vetting process for either the Jails or Prisons, but Local and State Cops do not believe there is much of one. I have had NUMEROUS incidents with CO's who have no business being apart of the blue line and should be on the other side of the walll. These negative experiences are common among LEOs to COs but some cops paint the whole group as trouble.
I have met some great CO's and many of whom believe in what they do. They are hard workers and day in and day out show up and do their thing.
I consider them a part of the Blue Line and I treat them like Cops.......even when they get pulled over for driving like absolute a*s clowns.
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1) Obviously, no.
2) In my dubious experience, yes. I have watched LEOs extend every "professional courtesy" possible to COs just as if they were brothers. And I am not just talking about coffee at Dunkin Donuts.
CLMN
n1oty
NES Member
My two cents are this:
When it comes to actual full time legit CO's either working in the jails or prisons, they can be dumbed up to special Police Officers. There is really no technical absolute for them in this state, it depends on what road there on, for what reason, in what context, who there with, what mood the govenor is in, who's a*s they've kissed and a trillion different factors which determine when and where they are considered Police Officers.
Now for what I think is the more important factor:
Should we consider them Police Officers and a member of the community?
I think we should. The fact is this, no Cop who has been doing the job for a bit wants the job the CO's have. No way. Its like their serving the time with the scuzballs. When it comes to the idealistic point of view, "good versus evil, us versus them, the good guys and the bad guys" they are an intrical part.
Do cops in the Northeast give CO's that respect, unfortunately not. I work with many who will treat a CO like any other civilian. I do not agree with it, but it is the way it is. This however is not completely on the Sworn LEO's. Correction departments around here have a reputation for,"taking anyone". It is a common joke that if you can't become a cop, then go be a CO. I have no idea he vetting process for either the Jails or Prisons, but Local and State Cops do not believe there is much of one. I have had NUMEROUS incidents with CO's who have no business being apart of the blue line and should be on the other side of the walll. These negative experiences are common among LEOs to COs but some cops paint the whole group as trouble.
I have met some great CO's and many of whom believe in what they do. They are hard workers and day in and day out show up and do their thing.
I consider them a part of the Blue Line and I treat them like Cops.......even when they get pulled over for driving like absolute a*s clowns.
I'm not sure that LEO hatred is limited just to CO's, Deputy Sheriff's, etc. To be blunt, many LEO's can't get along even amongst themselves. I can still vividly recall my father's response when I was selected for the MSP in the early 80's. He had nothing but utter loathing and contempt towards them and he was a Boston cop. He gave some shit to the trooper who came to my house to conduct an interview. He even threatened to disown me.
It's sad but so true, at least from my experiences here in MA. Just look at masscops.com for sterling examples of that.
I witnessed the car in front of me hit a bicyclist so I pulled over and waited to give a witness statement to the Stow PD when then arrived (FF/Paramedic witnessed it from a business, had PD and ambulance called and gave aid to the victim). Entire PD responded and I'm standing beside a Stow PO when a unmarked MSP Trooper drives by . . . the Stow PO uttered a profanity about the Trooper loud enough for me to hear it and he didn't know who I was.
One day a Trooper was stopped by a local Sgt and told that his daily cruise thru town (no lights and not responding to any calls) at >50mph in a 30mph zone was unacceptable and he should set a good example instead. Trooper gave him lip and the Sgt said that the next time he spotted him doing that his CO would be called. Trooper got more huffy. Next day he blasts thru town again and Sgt made a call. Trooper got an ass chewing and slowed it down from then on.
When I was a Reserve PO, we were looked upon as expendable slave labor, nothing more. Got no respect from many of our own FT POs, although some appreciated our assistance. Biggest "hater" became a Reserve PO (so that he could work details) after retiring out on a medical however!
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Wrong Co wouled not be consider LEO'S in this contexts however sworen persons from the sheriffs dept ( deputies) are able to. on question 1
I know a fellow who is an agent for ICE. He knows of a couple situations where federal agents (one was from ICE and the other from the FBI) who were stopped by MA state troopers for typical traffic violations, and were then told that they couldn't carry on their badge. In both cases, the trooper disarmed them, gave them all sorts of lip, threatened to arrest them, then eventually returned their issue handgun and let them go 1+ hour later.
Another time, a pair of ICE agents were transporting two prisoners on a highway in western MA when one of them has a seizure. The agents called for emergency services. While the firemen were treating the individual and readying him for transport to a hospital, an MSP sergeant tells the ICE officers that the prisoner will have to be taken to the infirmary in a state prison, not a hospital. Reportedly, the discussion got a little be heated, at which point one of the ICE agents told the MSP sergeant "You $#@#$!@ MDC cop! We just called you to direct traffic. Go do something useful and direct traffic!" The situation was resolved when the fire captain came over and told all involved that the prisoner was going to a hospital NOW. After the sergeant stalked away, the two other troopers asked the ICE agent: "How did you know he used to be an MDC cop?"
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Then there was the time that ICE agents transporting prisoners for deportation via Logan Airport parked their ICE van in front of the terminal and then took their prisoners inside. They parked the van where they always do. It's a US government van, with government plates, ICE shield on the side, etc. After putting the prisoners on the plane with their escorts, the ICE agents left the terminal to find that the MSP had towed their van.
Back when the federal court house used to be in Park Square, one day a Boston cop tried to tell a federal protective service agent that he couldn't park his marked federal cruiser next to the court house. Much jovial repartee ensued
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Willy-waving and urinary Olympics between police agencies is certainly not new. How often it happens is not clear to me.
J
Jose
A) Congress passes bills. The President signs bills into law.
B) The Federal government has ZERO authority to declare or not declare anyone not in federal service LEO or not.
C) Each state decides, on its own, what requirements must be met for someone to be a sworn law enforcement officer.
D) In some states, the legal, official term is still Peace Officer. Mine being one of them.
As for the Sheriff controversy, that is an issue in little New England states. Outside of there you had best believe Sheriffs and their deputies are sworn peace officers with FULL arrest and law enforcement powers.
In fact, by statute, their authority and jurisdictions encompasses their entire county and they can and will patrol and enforce law anywhere within that jurisdiction without needing the consent or approval of municipal police departments.
As a matter of fact, any county Sheriff in Ohio has more powers than the Commissioner of the Highway Patrol. We do not have a state police.
n1oty
NES Member
Very true. My in-laws live in Ross County and I thought about applying to the Ross County Sheriff's Department and the Highway Patrol back in 1980 as I came off active duty, but got hung up on residency requirements. But you are correct. Out that way, the Sheriff and his Deputy's are the big kahuna's and nobody screws with them.
mpd61
NES Member
NO
full-time DOC and County C.O.'s earn Full-tme respect from the majority of Police Officers.
conversely, they are not considered LEO by most cops or by statute.
Deputy Sheriffs do have some limited police powers for "breach of peace" offenses. Out of this common law power they have the ability to enforce some Chapter 90 civil motor vehicle laws that arise to "breach of peace" offenses.
(see Comm v. Baez)
Having established that, they have no specific STATUTORY authority to perform patrol functions. They have no established policies/procedures for 911 patrol response within their respective jurisdictions. In the two cases where sheriffs attempted to provide city patrol functions it went away quickly and quietly because they were simply NOT set up or trained properly to answer 911 calls for service.
In Massachusetts, the PRIMARY function of CO's working for the State (DOC) or County (sheriff) is the custody and care of inmates.
Riding Motorcycles in parades and diverting federal funds away from legitimate state/municipal POLICE agencies to buy Boats/ATVs/Mobile Command Centers that have nothing to do with inmate custody and care is illegal. Just ask NEMLEC and Middlesex Sheriff.
full-time DOC and County C.O.'s earn Full-tme respect from the majority of Police Officers.
conversely, they are not considered LEO by most cops or by statute.
Deputy Sheriffs do have some limited police powers for "breach of peace" offenses. Out of this common law power they have the ability to enforce some Chapter 90 civil motor vehicle laws that arise to "breach of peace" offenses.
(see Comm v. Baez)
Having established that, they have no specific STATUTORY authority to perform patrol functions. They have no established policies/procedures for 911 patrol response within their respective jurisdictions. In the two cases where sheriffs attempted to provide city patrol functions it went away quickly and quietly because they were simply NOT set up or trained properly to answer 911 calls for service.
In Massachusetts, the PRIMARY function of CO's working for the State (DOC) or County (sheriff) is the custody and care of inmates.
Riding Motorcycles in parades and diverting federal funds away from legitimate state/municipal POLICE agencies to buy Boats/ATVs/Mobile Command Centers that have nothing to do with inmate custody and care is illegal. Just ask NEMLEC and Middlesex Sheriff.
