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Damn 17 Center mass and 22 total? WTF I can't believe he didn't go down
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Cops should carry .500's !!!
- Thread starter Pilgrim
- Start date
Bill Nance
Banned
Smith & Wesson 1076. My carry gun for a while but I stopped using it since I was worried about blow-through hitting an innocent. -Now I cry every time I think about the day I sold it. It was a sweet gun.
Bill Nance
Banned
I'll never carry anything smaller than a .40 and I prefer .45 ACP. 9mm stopped being an option for me about 5 minutes after the North Hollywood BOA shootout.
But still, this guy was a freak of nature. 17 rds to center mass and he wasn't dead? That's just...well, time to start practicing headshots I guess.
Wow! 17 center mass shots and still moving is incredible. Regardless of the caliber you carry this is a perfect example of why to practice the Mozambique drill. Two shots center mass, One shot head, repeat as necessary.
Mass-diver
NES Member
Just curious, are the average patrol cops trained to take headshots? I don't recall any mention of "going upstairs" in the analysis presented by the article.
I also have to say, I think it's amazing that the cop hit the guy so many times! This shooting definitely represents an outlier, but it's still very interesting.
I also have to say, I think it's amazing that the cop hit the guy so many times! This shooting definitely represents an outlier, but it's still very interesting.
J
Jose
If you are not going to carry any pistol in 9x19, at least try to find some justification that makes a little bit of sense.
Damning 9 mm Luger for failing to stop perps covered in body armor and sometimes over 50 yards away does not show good judgement. More like living in a fantasy.
I will bet my left nut that your beloved 45 ACP would not have done a better job in this instance.
Buy the setup to reload for it, before you even buy the gun. You will do a LOT better in the long run. FMJ practice ammo for 10mm Auto is northward of $23 a box in the few places that sell it. Might even be worse than that now. I cannot state/stress this enough.
The guns themselves are easy enough to come by. I can get one of those virtually whenever- because there is always "that guy" that bought one, didn't 'realize how expensive it was to feed with commercial ammo, then turned around and sold it.
-Mike
Why not practice with the same gun in 9mm and carry the 10? People say all the time to train with a .22, or even use a .22 conversion to get the feel for the same gun. If these Glocks are all so utilitarian and similar, I can't imagine the two calibers would feel any different until you pulled the trigger.
DickWanner
Banned
M&M FMJ reloads are $15.75/50rds at Match Shot.Buy the setup to reload for it, before you even buy the gun. You will do a LOT better in the long run. FMJ practice ammo for 10mm Auto is northward of $23 a box in the few places that sell it. Might even be worse than that now. I cannot state/stress this enough.
The guns themselves are easy enough to come by. I can get one of those virtually whenever- because there is always "that guy" that bought one, didn't 'realize how expensive it was to feed with commercial ammo, then turned around and sold it.
-Mike
hit him in the head.he had time to place his shot.that happened to the FBI in florida.heart shot and still killed FBI agents.![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
Mabey it's a poor use of grammatical emphasis on your part, or did I miss out on something funny about that?
Yeah, but you know as well as I do that M+M doesn't even load to anything approaching 10mm commercial spec (and even that is weak, compared to the original "Norma Spec" 10mm..) unless they've changed the recipe recently Their loads were so weak that I could rapid fire my G20 at literally twice the rate with their ammo as factory. . The cases just dribble out of the ejection port. If I still had my G20 I would chrono the stuff, I think I still have a few boxes of it around. I bet its well under 1050 FPS, I would be surprised if it broke 950 actually- the stuff even seems weaker to me than .40 S+W commercial ammo is.
In 10mm a reload setup will easily pay for itself. Not only that, but you'll usually be able to crank .40 S+W out with the same dies, which is kinda
nice.
-Mike
DickWanner
Banned
True, but M&M does work well for practice/plinking ammo if you don't have reloading equipment. What and where is the FMJ ammo @ $23/box, DT is now up to $33/box for their 180gr FMJ loads.
Yeah, as I suggested, it's probably way more than that. The last boxes I got were at Rileys, and they were Fed AE 180 grain FMJ loads for $23/box, but I'm sure they're more than that now.
I remember a long time ago when you could get Blazer 200 gr 10mm for about $14 a box from a few different places online... those were
the days.. That stuff was good on bowling pins, too. (bullet is actually heavy enough to do the job. )
-Mike
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drgrant,
any chance you could give me a heads up if you ever come across a glock chambered for 10mm? you mentioned being able to come across them rather easily....I want one bad.
any chance you could give me a heads up if you ever come across a glock chambered for 10mm? you mentioned being able to come across them rather easily....I want one bad.
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I wonder why the Officer did not try to enter his patrol car and create a little distance while calling for backup?I would say he was not too quick on his feet as far as making sound judgements.These actions years ago were called "Tombstone Courage".A lot of Cops die because of this.
I have exactly the same setup, but with my own handloads that put those to shame. The G29 is my favorite 10mm. It has less recoil than the G20 too.
DickWanner
Banned
I always tell people that it does, but they never believe me. What is your recipe so I can whip up a batch of good carry ammo using my Grandpa's reloading equipment next time I'm in Vermont?
If you've ever been to a car shoot, you'll know that sitting in a car just makes you a stationary target.
The car body does NOTHING to protect it's occupants.
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rephrasing
When I said getting in the patrol car and creating distance,I meant to put it in gear and driving out of the danger zone,keeping an eye on the guy,calling for help and maybe watch the guy bleed out.
I will have to be more careful in the future.![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
When I said getting in the patrol car and creating distance,I meant to put it in gear and driving out of the danger zone,keeping an eye on the guy,calling for help and maybe watch the guy bleed out.
I will have to be more careful in the future.
I found the PDF. If anyone wants it, pm me. I'd post the link but the pdf is extremely graphic.
Also the suspect took multiple hits of which 16 were .223 rounds, and still had to be wrestled to the ground afterwards.
Wow, some very interesting things there clinotus. Of particular note, the SPeer Gold Dot .40 cal rounds that only penetrated an inch or so, and expanded only slightly or not at all. Really makes you think about the relative ineffectiveness of handguns against a determined attacker who isn't too impressed by being shot.
DickWanner
Banned
The FBI did an investigation and determined that the coroners findings were false.
I personally spoke to a LEO who was involved in a shooting where his 16 center of mass .40's didn't stop the person he was shooting. Adrenaline can do funny stuff to people.
But remember it's a two way street, if a criminal can fight past death, so can you. Don't let your blood or pain deter you from winning.
All my carry guns are chambered in .357 SIG. I'm comfortable with what I carry, but I won't train to expect someone to fall down and stick their tongue out if they get shot with it. Keep shooting until they stop, even if they're laying on the ground, begging for their life or doing anything else. As long as someone is posing a threat, shoot them.
Once the shooting starts, you're in it until it stops or one of you dies. It's a nice thought, but based on what I read there he was too close to do anything but shoot or die.
But remember it's a two way street, if a criminal can fight past death, so can you. Don't let your blood or pain deter you from winning.
All my carry guns are chambered in .357 SIG. I'm comfortable with what I carry, but I won't train to expect someone to fall down and stick their tongue out if they get shot with it. Keep shooting until they stop, even if they're laying on the ground, begging for their life or doing anything else. As long as someone is posing a threat, shoot them.
When I said getting in the patrol car and creating distance,I meant to put it in gear and driving out of the danger zone,keeping an eye on the guy,calling for help and maybe watch the guy bleed out.
I will have to be more careful in the future.
Once the shooting starts, you're in it until it stops or one of you dies. It's a nice thought, but based on what I read there he was too close to do anything but shoot or die.
It's a great gun, but a little too thick for my tastes. If I lived in a free state I think a G20 would make an excellant keep-in-the-car pistol, but for now my G31, G32 and G33 will have to do the trick.
We should just hang out more often, so I can enjoy all them benefits of available 10mm firepower without any of the drawbacks.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
DickWanner
Banned
You gotta shoot some rounds through the Saiga too.It's a great gun, but a little too thick for my tastes. If I lived in a free state I think a G20 would make an excellant keep-in-the-car pistol, but for now my G31, G32 and G33 will have to do the trick.
We should just hang out more often, so I can enjoy all them benefits of available 10mm firepower without any of the drawbacks.
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I want in on that.
DickWanner
Banned
Hell yea ![[party]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/021.gif "Party [party]")
I remember a class I took a while ago when we were debaiting how close is close enough to draw a pistol if someones running at you with a large blade/chainsaw/what have you and you cant get away. The 2-4 min of living after getting shot in the heart surprised us all then. now we got confirmation... if you got the wits and the clear point of aim, two to the chest, one to the head.
