Cops lie, excersized the hell out of those rights tonight, and learned!

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So for the first time in forever I get pulled over, apparently I made the mistake of picking up a friend from a apartment building that's known for heavy drugs late at night. I pulled away and 30 seconds later blue flashy lights. And like a dumbass I got out when I was asked because I had no clue, seat belt was on, made full stop at stop sign, wasn't speeding, turn signal used. I thought he was going to show me a tail light out or I was dragging a body or something, that's when I noticed the one cop was actually a herd of them.

Ok confused but still in a friendly mood instantly I'm hit with lie #1. I was told one "saw me stuffing drugs into my pocket as they pulled up"! mmmmmm NO! Unless you can see thru a tailgate and front of bed wall and rear cab wall AND still a seat too. That would be pretty magical! I took that as he thought I was completely stupid. Friendly mode shifted into dick mode in a nanosecond. Challenge ACCEPTED!

They tried everything to get to search me and the car, mind games to try to trick me into agreeing to a search. The question of "do you mind if I search you real quick" is frigging designed to give permission on a no OR a yes. I said yeah as in 'yeah I do mind'. Instantly realized that could be taken as "yeah go ahead", blurted out 'no', quarter second later I'm realizing that could be taken as 'no I don't mind'. Luckily I manged to cough out "I'm not giving you permission to search anything" as the closest cop starting moving in for the search. Quick argument about you just gave permission was settled with making it very clear I'm not interested in being touched. Then off to the separating me and the passenger to try to get different "story's" but that was easily countered after I realized what was happening with "ask her" a few times. Seeing that's destined to fail they move on to some major lying. I was informed they do not need any permission to search me or my vehicle because the street I came from was well known for drugs, apparently as if that's probable cause now. And one said something along the lines of my refusal of a search constitutes probable cause because only people who have something to hide would say that, or some crap along those lines, I was distracted with one poking around the windows with a flashlight and reinforcing the "I dont consent to a search" so that part is fuzzy, but that's what he was getting at. Looooong story short, I stood out in the rain for 20+ minutes, they told me 20 ways of how they don't need my permission and "YOU ARE going to be searched" but in the end I didn't get searched nor did the vehicle. Passenger however is another story but she's never been known for being able to say no to men in any capacity at all so that wasnt a shock...

Some things I learned...
  • I don't think they encounter people who know they have rights very often if even ever. The main cop seemed almost stunned I declined on his first request to search my pockets, it was like that never happened to him before.
  • They absolutely bank on people being either stupid, gullible, or intimidated! They seem almost confused on what to do if they come across someone who doesn't fit into one of those categories.
  • Using the phrase "Enough of this shit. Arrest me and get me a lawyer" pretty much puts a stop to the process, they stepped down off my balls instantly after that. Not sure why, maybe under the law right there they have to stop without a lawyer present? I thought that was only after an arrest though? Or possibly it's just a realization that even if they invent something to arrest me for I'm instantly demanding a lawyer and not chatting my way into a real charge when I get into a interrogation room. Hrm, wish I knew.

To their credit once they realized they weren't getting anywhere they did stop treating me like a suspect/drug lord/liar and tried to explain what and why they were doing it but at that point of 20+ minutes of standing there thinking "do these guys really think I'm that stupid" and feeling like I'm a meth head who has no rights over and over I was so aggravated I was a complete a-hole and trying to push any of their buttons about anything I could. Looking back I should have went with "Am I free to go" after I was told "You're not going to get very far with your attitude" instead of "it got me the F* out of here without being searched now didnt it", but they handled that well too. I kind of felt bad about a few minutes later driving down the road after I calmed down a bit.

Post game notes: Nothing illegal on me or in the car at all, I really was just picking up a friend from her friends apt. After I got back home I realized I should have emptied my pockets in front of them after I was "free'd" just to make a point. Oh well.
 
Good job by you. How's your dog? What town did this happen in?

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 
I've been the opposite side of that coin, I was illegally searched because I was shooting on a piece of public land in NH. It's a long story but I was cuffed and searched, had broken no law and was accused of no crime.

It's difficult to say no to a search when you're held at gunpoint and placed in cuffs. I had a very strong 4A case against them but didn't end up pushing it too far as I was buying a business in the town. I was also less firm in my beliefs and understanding of the law then.

But yes, they rely on intimidation, threats and lack of knowledge of the law in order to get their way.
 
Good job by you. How's your dog? What town did this happen in?

Didn't bring my dog, no idea why, any other time I would when just giving someone a ride. Greenfield Ma, I'm sure I'd be targeted for a while until that faded out of their memory, one pretty much said something like we'll see how this goes next time we meet as I was walking away. Thankfully I'm rarely in that city and the chances it will happen again on their shift anytime soon are even rarer.
 
I was also less firm in my beliefs and understanding of the law then.
Yeah, 20 years ago I would have just let them search it. But then the internet happened, then the endless supply of cops gone wild videos started flowing and I started learning about what my rights are. They can blame themselves for tonight's failure, if it wasn't for the 17,483 out of control cop videos I've seen on youtube I never would have bothered learning I even have any rights.
 
Look at the response of the sheeple aftr two two nitwit bombers were caught. They turned areas into police states and the sheeple were fine with it, then gave them an ovation after the one was dead and the other caught. MA is one of the only states who vote down tax cut ballot questions. Ask people why they voted for an override or against the income tax cut, etc? Because the gov't needs the money. MA is full of idiots.
 
The whole ordeal would have been a nice recording.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 
Any legal peeps know if there are any state laws stand out when it comes to these situations? It seems that every other video you see involving this has someone referring to state law wherever they are. Anything special in New England that people should be aware of? Precedents, laws about producing identification, giving your full name, etc.
 
Post game notes: Nothing illegal on me or in the car at all, I really was just picking up a friend from her friends apt. After I got back home I realized I should have emptied my pockets in front of them after I was "free'd" just to make a point. Oh well.


Disagree. Because you were doing nothing wrong. This is EVEN more reasoned stand firm.
 
I had a very strong 4A case against them but didn't end up pushing it too far

The problem with a 4A "case" is that unless you have measurable damages, you'll get nothing.

There was a little publicized case in Worcester last month where the police were found to have used excessive force. The plaintiff was awarded $15,000. See http://www.telegram.com/article/20140329/NEWS/303299895/1246

Unless you can get the ACLU to fund the case, or can afford to roll the dice on a six figure legal bill, you'll never beat them. If you win a civil rights lawsuit, the loser pays you legal bill.
 
I had a cop pull me over and insist that I was high on marijuana....(I've never touched the stuff in my entire life). After he realized there was no evidence he asked to search the car "just to be safe"...

NES isn't anti cop for the sake of it...but because there are so many negative experiences to draw on....yes there are good guys, but the militarization of police and the "war on freedom" is an escalating situation. Make your voice heard.
 
Excellent post. I had a similar experience coming home from the 5th Alarm(strip club) in Springfield 5 years ago.

No officer, I'm not answering your bull**** questions. Not telling you where I work or where I am coming from or going to. Am I free to go?

Nope you cant search my vehicle, am I free to go?

I dont give a rats ass if they're "just trying to do their job", All I wanted to do was go to the dirtiest strip club in town and enjoy myself. It is my natural right to travel freely and not present papers or answer questions because I am a white male in a high crime and drug area
 
Excellent post. I had a similar experience coming home from the 5th Alarm(strip club) in Springfield 5 years ago.

No officer, I'm not answering your bull**** questions. Not telling you where I work or where I am coming from or going to. Am I free to go?

Nope you cant search my vehicle, am I free to go?

I dont give a rats ass if they're "just trying to do their job", All I wanted to do was go to the dirtiest strip club in town and enjoy myself. It is my natural right to travel freely and not present papers or answer questions because I am a white male in a high crime and drug area


That at was you?

Kidding.
 
Post game notes: Nothing illegal on me or in the car at all, I really was just picking up a friend from her friends apt. After I got back home I realized I should have emptied my pockets in front of them after I was "free'd" just to make a point. Oh well.


No, you should not have. That would have probably enough to start the game all over again.
 
Didn't bring my dog, no idea why, any other time I would when just giving someone a ride. Greenfield Ma, I'm sure I'd be targeted for a while until that faded out of their memory, one pretty much said something like we'll see how this goes next time we meet as I was walking away. Thankfully I'm rarely in that city and the chances it will happen again on their shift anytime soon are even rarer.

Gotta stay away from the Woods , Oak Court , or the Gardens LOL . GPD has always had JBT's even back in the 70's/ 80's
 
I've been the opposite side of that coin, I was illegally searched because I was shooting on a piece of public land in NH. It's a long story but I was cuffed and searched, had broken no law and was accused of no crime.

It's difficult to say no to a search when you're held at gunpoint and placed in cuffs. I had a very strong 4A case against them but didn't end up pushing it too far as I was buying a business in the town. I was also less firm in my beliefs and understanding of the law then.

But yes, they rely on intimidation, threats and lack of knowledge of the law in order to get their way.

Where in NH?
 
Is it wrong that I actually got sick to my stomach and cried a little when all that happened? I have friends in the area and when I voiced my concern about the 4th amendment being violated, they told me "you're not from Boston, you just don't get what the bombings did to us."

Not from Boston? I grew up in Hyde Park, you bastards!?

Look at the response of the sheeple aftr two two nitwit bombers were caught. They turned areas into police states and the sheeple were fine with it, then gave them an ovation after the one was dead and the other caught. MA is one of the only states who vote down tax cut ballot questions. Ask people why they voted for an override or against the income tax cut, etc? Because the gov't needs the money. MA is full of idiots.
 
Look at the response of the sheeple aftr two two nitwit bombers were caught. They turned areas into police states and the sheeple were fine with it, then gave them an ovation after the one was dead and the other caught. MA is one of the only states who vote down tax cut ballot questions. Ask people why they voted for an override or against the income tax cut, etc? Because the gov't needs the money. MA is full of idiots.

Very true sadly
 
Is it wrong that I actually got sick to my stomach and cried a little when all that happened? I have friends in the area and when I voiced my concern about the 4th amendment being violated, they told me "you're not from Boston, you just don't get what the bombings did to us."

Not from Boston? I grew up in Hyde Park, you bastards!?

This is the new and improved Boston area version of "It's for the children"

now just give up all your freedoms like a good little sheeple.
 
I don't get it. These are people who I grew up with and they act as if I take the bombings as a joke. My parents were supposed to be in the grandstand that day, my father was invited to it as a gift for his ongoing consultancy post retirement. The only reason they weren't there was that my mom was in the beginning phases of getting very sick.

but they tell me Im ridiculous for criticizing the response and the whole mindless "boston strong" mantra. Im sorry, nothing was "strong" about a bunch of hipsters cowering under their Ikea furniture, clutching iPads as if they were security blankets.

Yet Im ridiculous because I think depending on government to protect us is signing our own death warrants. Im ridiculous because I carry a loaded weapon and have started studying disaster preparedness. Will it be ridiculous when I help someone because I was prepared and kept medical supplies in my truck as I've done many times in the past?

Am I ridiculous when I say the Boston bombings and the response will lead to interruptions of civil liberties that they aren't going to be so supportive of next time? GODDAMNIT I need a drink.


This is the new and improved Boston area version of "It's for the children"

now just give up all your freedoms like a good little sheeple.
 
To their credit once they realized they weren't getting anywhere they did stop treating me like a suspect/drug lord/liar and tried to explain what and why they were doing it but at that point of 20+ minutes of standing there thinking "do these guys really think I'm that stupid" and feeling like I'm a meth head who has no rights over and over I was so aggravated I was a complete a-hole and trying to push any of their buttons about anything I could. Looking back I should have went with "Am I free to go" after I was told "You're not going to get very far with your attitude" instead of "it got me the F* out of here without being searched now didnt it", but they handled that well too. I kind of felt bad about a few minutes later driving down the road after I calmed down a bit. ....

This part stuck out for me. I do believe that most cops in this state are very well aware of where the line is. They get lots of practice getting up to that line without going over. You don't have to know that line as well as they do, but just the fact that you know it's out there and assert yourself let's them know you're not an easy mark.
 
Sniper (+) said:
Post game notes: Nothing illegal on me or in the car at all, I really was just picking up a friend from her friends apt. After I got back home I realized I should have emptied my pockets in front of them after I was "free'd" just to make a point. Oh well.

No, you should not have. That would have probably enough to start the game all over again.

Especially if emptying the pockets would have included placing the carry gun on top of the pile :)
 
There is a huge disconnect between the 5th and the 4th. The police must specifically tell you that you have the right to remain silent, however, they are under no obligation to inform you that you do not have to consent to a search. The approach to "consent searches" is not unlike that to suspect questioning prior to Miranda.
 
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