Coonan 1911 357 mag double charge...PICS

[Whiskeywon]

$80/200. How stupid do you have to be???? Golden Sabers would run $4 more for the 200. Factory, nickel cased Golden Sabers. Wow. (Practice ammo from TSA would run about $76 SHIPPED!)

But, but if I can save $4 per box of 200 then every 4000 rounds I can buy another box of 200. Goddamn some people are stupid and/or stupidly cheap. At least if your gun blew up shooting Golden Sabers, Remington would basically be buying you a new gun if it was their fault and not a faulty product. I'd almost consider that warranty money.

 

[whacko]

It's ridiculous, of course, but I think I know where he got the idea. With black powder one loads flush or compressed. This is my understanding (which might be wrong). Black powder is super fast-burning compared to smokeless powder. When you load flush, the charge ignites from the rear and burns forward very quickly, creating gas as it goes. Eventually it starts to move the bullet and remaining powder down the barrel as it burns. That's why an overcharge with black powder is just inefficient, not dangerous. If you have an air gap, however, the flash can travel over the entire charge and ignite it all at once, which is bad because there's no time to bleed off pressure by moving the bullet and remaining powder charge down the barrel. Boom.

This condition is called "detonation". There is a camp of reloaders that believe that small volume powders in 38 and 357 are dangerous and they avoid that recipe altogether. The theory is that the low volume of fast burning powder spreads out and lays flat on the side of the case (because the gun is obviously level to the ground when firing). When this happens a rare condition can occur where the primer ignition travels over the powder (which is laying on the flat part of the case) and does not ignite the charge.....the primer pressure can start the projectile down the barrel before ignition of the powder charge and when the powder does ignite....kaboom.

My opinion is this "detonation" theory came from reloaders that blew up their gun and can't admit they f***ed up and made a double charge.....and are blaming it in the powder recipe.

I've had many spirited debates about this.......I don't subscribe to it. Bullseye is a fast burning low volume powder.....literal mountains of bullseye have been loaded under 38 wadcutters and semi wadcutters by bullseye shooters for decades.....2.7 to 3 grains at a time. It was and is one of most popular bullseye recipes.

 

[DW357]

$80/200. How stupid do you have to be???? Golden Sabers would run $4 more for the 200. Factory, nickel cased Golden Sabers. Wow. (Practice ammo from TSA would run about $76 SHIPPED!)

I know!!! I was cringing. Just insanely dumb. Being a skinflint on ammo but shooting a ~$1500 gun???? JFC dude

 

[DW357]

Hm, the original photos from a couple years ago aren't posting. But that being said damn to that second set of photos from the other person.

Yeah those older photos must have somehow got lost/deleted over the years. I'm sure I could find those if I searched on the facebook group.

 

[DW357]

But, but if I can save $4 per box of 200 then every 4000 rounds I can buy another box of 200. Goddamn some people are stupid and/or stupidly cheap. At least if your gun blew up shooting Golden Sabers, Remington would basically be buying you a new gun if it was their fault and not a faulty product. I'd almost consider that warranty money.

This!
And with Coonan possibly going belly up, it wouldn't even have mattered if he used factory ammo and had a kaboom. He said he emailed Coonan but apparently he's been living under a rock. He's SOL regardless if reloads or factory. He just burned $1500 - ouch! All the while overpaying on random reloads from a gun show. Just painful to see....

 

[DW357]

This condition is called "detonation". There is a camp of reloaders that believe that small volume powders in 38 and 357 are dangerous and they avoid that recipe altogether. The theory is that the low volume of fast burning powder spreads out and lays flat on the side of the case (because the gun is obviously level to the ground when firing). When this happens a rare condition can occur where the primer ignition travels over the powder (which is laying on the flat part of the case) and does not ignite the charge.....the primer pressure can start the projectile down the barrel before ignition of the powder charge and when the powder does ignite....kaboom.

My opinion is this "detonation" theory came from reloaders that blew up their gun and can't admit they f***ed up and made a double charge.....and are blaming it in the powder recipe.

I've had many spirited debates about this.......I don't subscribe to it. Bullseye is a fast burning low volume powder.....literal mountains of bullseye have been loaded under 38 wadcutters and semi wadcutters by bullseye shooters for decades.....2.7 to 3 grains at a time. It was and is one of most popular bullseye recipes.

Ahh yes detonation. I don't really buy that either. I've shot thousands of light 357 mag loads using 4 gr of bullseye with no kabooms!

 

[whacko]

This condition is called "detonation". There is a camp of reloaders that believe that small volume powders in 38 and 357 are dangerous and they avoid that recipe altogether. The theory is that the low volume of fast burning powder spreads out and lays flat on the side of the case (because the gun is obviously level to the ground when firing). When this happens a rare condition can occur where the primer ignition travels over the powder (which is laying on the flat part of the case) and does not ignite the charge.....the primer pressure can start the projectile down the barrel before ignition of the powder charge and when the powder does ignite....kaboom.

My opinion is this "detonation" theory came from reloaders that blew up their gun and can't admit they f***ed up and made a double charge.....and are blaming it in the powder recipe.

I've had many spirited debates about this.......I don't subscribe to it. Bullseye is a fast burning low volume powder.....literal mountains of bullseye have been loaded under 38 wadcutters and semi wadcutters by bullseye shooters for decades.....2.7 to 3 grains at a time. It was and is one of most popular bullseye recipes.

Ahh yes detonation. I don't really buy that either. I've shot thousands of light 357 mag loads using 4 gr of bullseye with no kabooms!

6.4 grains of 700x under a 125 grain berry plated. Hundreds of em and 700x is faster burning than bullseye.....

That's actually a crappy 357 mag recipe by the way.....I just happened to have a pound of 700x sitting around that i wanted to use up.

As far as bullseye powder goes.....love it. 148 grain wadcutters over 2.8 grains of bullseye makes a great target load for fun or target scoring. A pound lasts forever making those and the smallest dipper in my lee set throws 2.8 grains of bullseye perfectly. I don't even have to test weigh anymore.....fast and easy charging.

 

[meh]

My opinion is this "detonation" theory came from reloaders that blew up their gun and can't admit they f***ed up and made a double charge.....and are blaming it in the powder recipe.

I agree with you here. With smokeless powder it is so demonstrably false that it hardly merits debate. The only detonation issue I know of with smokeless powders is when a slower-burning powder (I'm thinking of H110) "pops the cork" before building up enough pressure and then subsequently not enough of the remaining powder burns to force the bullet out of the bore. Obviously that problem doesn't blow up the gun. It doesn't even hurt the gun. Now, the shooter might change that by pulling the trigger again with the squib stuck in the bore, but that's a different issue.

The phenomenon with black powder is sometimes called a "short start". As far as I know, the danger of short starts with BP is not a myth.

 

[whacko]

I know!!! I was cringing. Just insanely dumb. Being a skinflint on ammo but shooting a ~$1500 gun???? JFC dude

lots of cheapskates out there with high dollar guns using crap ammo. At a club open house we had a guy show up to "zero" his m1a.....brand new. He was using steel case shitty 308 and complaining that his groups sucked and he was having too many malfunctions for such an expensive rifle.

 

[DW357]

lots of cheapskates out there with high dollar guns using crap ammo. At a club open house we had a guy show up to "zero" his m1a.....brand new. He was using steel case shitty 308 and complaining that his groups sucked and he was having too many malfunctions for such an expensive rifle.

Wow

 

[Larry Gentile]

This is why when I reload I start off with low to medium book proven powder loads with proven powder config's. Then work up the load in small tenths increments looking for pressure signs each time. i'm actually more confident that the ammo I make is better quality and consistency than any boxed factory ammo.
I reload 6.5CM, 5.56 and 10mm Auto so far.

 

[DW357]

This is why when I reload I start off with low to medium book proven powder loads with proven powder config's. Then work up the load in small tenths increments looking for pressure signs each time. i'm actually more confident that the ammo I make is better quality and consistency than any boxed factory ammo.
I reload 6.5CM, 5.56 and 10mm Auto so far.

Same

 

[45collector]

View attachment 276545

"Practice ammo"... As in whoever loaded that shit was "practicing" reloading because they don't know WTF they're doing.

 

[45collector]

I reload 6.5CM, 5.56 and 10mm Auto so far.

Dang, that's all? I'm up to:
.380
9x18
9x19
.38spl
.45acp
.45colt
.30carbine
.308win

 

[DW357]

"Practice ammo"... As in whoever loaded that shit was "practicing" reloading because they don't know WTF they're doing.

Exactly. Shame on the dealer/seller at the gun show for selling someone's shitty reloads. But shame on the coonan owner for spending $80 on 200 rounds of shitty reloads to feed his $1500+ gun.....

 

[45collector]

Exactly. Shame on the dealer/seller at the gun show for selling someone's shitty reloads. But shame on the coonan owner for spending $80 on 200 rounds of shitty reloads to feed his $1500+ gun.....

Before I started reloading my own, I used to buy from the guy that would frequent the MA gunshows with those nicely packaged boxes of reloads. Those were good and I never had issues. But nowadays I wouldn't trust anyone's but my own.

 

[Whiskeywon]

Exactly. Shame on the dealer/seller at the gun show for selling someone's shitty reloads. But shame on the coonan owner for spending $80 on 200 rounds of shitty reloads to feed his $1500+ gun.....

With how you're banging your head on this I can't imagine you don't have a nice dent or a fractured skull yet.
That being said I hope the next post we hear about it somebody with a Guncrafter .50GI 1911 shooting retail priced reloads and blowing up their gun.

 

[DW357]

With how you're banging your head on this I can't imagine you don't have a nice dent or a fractured skull yet.
That being said I hope the next post we hear about it somebody with a Guncrafter .50GI 1911 shooting retail priced reloads and blowing up their gun.

Now that would be interesting and painful.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I know!!! I was cringing. Just insanely dumb. Being a skinflint on ammo but shooting a ~$1500 gun???? JFC dude

But he paid MORE for reloads than factory range ammo. Crazy!

 

[DW357]

But he paid MORE for reloads than factory range ammo. Crazy!

Right! I sent the guy a link to TSUSA where he could have saved money and bought brand new ammo. I just don't understand some people.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

For 30+ years I've been using the Winchester data for .357 in the Python and lever gun. Magnum primer, 18.5 gr 296 or 110, 125 gr JHP and HEAVY roll crimp. Never a issue (knocks on wood). Never felt the need to load "light" for .357 mag. I load light for .38 spl. with 231 and cast lead. Jack.

 

[DW357]

Never felt the need to load "light" for .357 mag. I load light for .38 spl. with 231 and cast lead. Jack.

I use 357 brass but load to 38 spl velocities. 4.2 gr of bullseye or sport pistol under a coated 158 gr SWC.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I use 357 brass but load to 38 spl velocities. 4.2 gr of bullseye or sport pistol under a coated 158 gr SWC.

That's a good load. I just happen to have a boatload of .38 spl brass, so I just use that. Jack.