Abnormal for a bank officer to travel to another location, or to have estate planning document executed at a bank. Without the notary being present at the time of the signing, the value of the notarization is zero.
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Contesting a Will
- Thread starter kman
- Start date
He is an attorney and probably notarizes things himself, which I'm betting is the case for the vast majority of estate planning docs. IANAL
ThePreBanMan
NES Member
The suicide might be evidence of such mental incapacity. Thw will having been changed immediately prior to. That seems suspect. Was the will notarized? Does any evidence exist that is an official and enforceable document?
Dennis in MA
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Ain't that the truth!
In the life insurance industry, there used to be this book they sold. It had all these celebrities and a one-page pic and synopsis of the estate disaster they encountered. People like Elvis and J Paul Getty and such.
The real issue with Probate is that the whole POINT of it is to ensure that EVERYONE that has a claim can be heard.
So if you've got nudgy relatives that you think are going to give you a hard time, maybe a will isn't the best solution for you. It's a RARE thing - so don't get too hung up. But you have to be careful.
I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, but in 33. . . 34 years of doing this, I've seen a lot.
I saw a woman become estranged from her mom for several years. As mom was dying, they reconciled. After the death, it was discovered that the client's schoolyard friend who grew up down the street became a lawyer and helped "mom" draft her will and such. Wanna guess who was made beneficiary???? Any guesses??????
Of course, said "friend" didn't "draft" the documents - even though Mom said it was all her when talking to the daughter (who would think to even document that???) - her busines partner did.
Did we fight it? Believe it or not, no. We didn't. This was 15-18 years ago. I asked my client if she was prepared for a few years of ugly court dates, worrying about this and having to deal with it if she possibly DIDN'T win. She was reluctant. I then asked if she'd rather have the money or those last 3-4 months with her mom. She's never second-guessed it again.
And yeah, the law finally caught up with the now-disbarred scumbag atty. What goes around comes around.
Sheriff Justice
NES Member
Very sorry about your uncle, may he be at peace.
My friend’s aunt became seriously ill a few years ago. Nobody in the family (2 sisters, nieces and nephews) could take care of her 12+ hours each day so she had her friend’s unemployed daughter help for about a year. Several weeks before she passed the aunt changed her Will without the families knowledge to leave “everything” - assets, property and valuables to this caregiver.
Beach front home mortgage paid off, vehicle, $37K cash in bank account and zero credit card debt. A basic $25K life insurance policy the beneficiary caregiver used to direct pay funeral arrangements, cemetery plot and a headstone.
The sisters felt betrayed, but were told by lawyer’s it would cost thousands to fight and you will most likely walk away with nothing (unless the caregiver wants to give something, not legally forced).
My friend’s aunt became seriously ill a few years ago. Nobody in the family (2 sisters, nieces and nephews) could take care of her 12+ hours each day so she had her friend’s unemployed daughter help for about a year. Several weeks before she passed the aunt changed her Will without the families knowledge to leave “everything” - assets, property and valuables to this caregiver.
Beach front home mortgage paid off, vehicle, $37K cash in bank account and zero credit card debt. A basic $25K life insurance policy the beneficiary caregiver used to direct pay funeral arrangements, cemetery plot and a headstone.
The sisters felt betrayed, but were told by lawyer’s it would cost thousands to fight and you will most likely walk away with nothing (unless the caregiver wants to give something, not legally forced).
Is there any 'sure' way to secure where your money goes when you pass? Is a solid will good enough? Good lawyer, not an ambulance chaser, multiple witnesses, what process generally guarantees no problems with you passing assets downstream?
VTski4x4
NES Member
Irrevocable Trust - and even then, some things can be changed.
Will contests are rare. Usually a professionally written will, properly executed with two disinterested witnesses and a notary (not required, but very helpful) is sufficient to make sure your stuff goes where it is supposed to.
Can you imagine, the last year's of your life and no family comes around.
I'd leave it to whoever was there when I needed them, Family isn't OWED anything
Dennis in MA
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On the flipside, do you give the MVP award to the guy that did zero all season, slept for 3/4 of the game and then came off the bench to score the winning touchdown????
"When you needed them" could be a lifetime reflection.
"When you needed them" could be a lifetime reflection.
Sheriff Justice
NES Member
Him and his family did visit while she was sick, they could not provide long term care she needed (work schedule, travel distance, etc). The caregiver had her own apt but helped everyday and most overnights.
The sisters contested the Will saying she was medicated on pain scripts and was unsure at the time. On lawyer’s advice, they decided not to proceed:
1) the aunt created the Will plus some other doc’s.
2) cost was too expensive with very low success rate.
3) the Will was notarized with confirmed witness signatures by a close friend and a credit union rep.
The caregiver had the updated Will and provided copies to the family. His family had what they thought was the original from years earlier giving them the beach front house (not Malibu, just overlooking bay). In the end they got nothing but photo albums, jewelry and misc items the caregiver offered.
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Maybe true but the deceased may have gotten the document from his lawyer and then taken it to the bank. Notary's are required to keep a log of their activity so it shouldn't be something that's hard to figure out. A lot of us Real Estate agents are notaries and I only know one person who has ever had to produce the log. True story... Several years ago one of my colleagues was in the office and a guy came in asking if a notary was available. My colleague helped him and notarized this guys will. A week or so later some people came knocking asking if the signature was legit and all of that. Turns out this guy got his docs signed and then went home and ended his life. Sad.
Rob Boudrie
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Use a mechanism that works outside of protest, like storing your money in a pod. (Payable Upon Death account, fancyspeak for a beneficiary).
