Confused. Subject of "assault weapons" again

[NeverMiss]

I was working with the GF on her LTC-A class paperwork. She had some questions I even faulted on! So here is the one we could not get a streight answer on...

We have been looking to buy a S/W M&P 15-22 ( the .22 version ). I was told by a dealer in NH that this rifle had to have at least 2 of the 3 strikes to be NOT Mass compliant. He was proud to say that his were OK for MA becuase:

There was no flash supressor
No Bayonet attachment

It did have the stock that could slide back and forth to make it longer/shorter. He mentioned that he had a few magazines for his MA customers that were only 10 rounds.

So, would this be a Mass complaint rifle? I would think that ANY dealer would need to know better about what he is selling.

Also, does the fact that it's a .22 keep it out of the "assault weapon" terminology?

What do you think? Just get one from MA???

thanks

 

[Business]

collapsible stock = Not MA OK

 

[Business]

In theory you could pin it though

 

[jasons]

collapsible stock = Not MA OK

This. The fact that it's a .22LR not relevant.

In theory you could pin it though

That depends on who you ask.

 

[strangenh]

The pistol grip is another "naughty" feature. So that's two.

See: http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/awfacts.html

 

[NeverMiss]

so, that 2 out of three thing is BS?

 

[NeverMiss]

The pistol grip is another "naughty" feature. So that's two.

See: http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/awfacts.html

yeah, but even the MA ones' have the same grip (hmmm)

 

[scouter-rick]

Understanding “Assault Weapons” and “Large Capacity Weapons”
A guideline for Massachusetts

http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/awfacts.html

 

[MisterHappy]

The problem wiht Mass Gun laws is that the more you try to figure them out, the less you actually know....

MisterHappyJr and I took the INstructor's Course at GOAL.

The 13-year-old had the highest score on the MGL quiz!

MGLs endumben the brain-meat.....

 

[Kevlar]

So, would this be a Mass complaint rifle?

No.

The collapsible stock in conjunction with the pistol grip = a post-ban assault weapon.

I would think that ANY dealer would need to know better about what he is selling.

NEVER trust them to know better. Ultimately, it's your responsibility.

Also, does the fact that it's a .22 keep it out of the "assault weapon" terminology?

No.

 

[strangenh]

so, that 2 out of three thing is BS?

Look at the FAQ that two of us have recommended. It spells it out pretty clearly.

 

[NeverMiss]

No.

The collapsible stock in conjunction with the pistol grip = a post-ban assault weapon.



NEVER trust them to know better. Ultimately, it's your responsibility.



No.

Great feedback! Thanks

 

[jasons]

so, that 2 out of three thing is BS?

I'm pretty sure there's a sticky on this, but for rifles it's actually two out of FIVE.

(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

1. a folding or telescoping stock;
2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
3. a bayonet mount;
4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
5. a grenade launcher;

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

*Text of the federal AWB referred to above:

8 U.S.C. sec. 921 (a) (30):

The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means--

(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as--

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);

(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;

(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);

(iv) Colt AR-15;

(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;

(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;

(vii) Steyr AUG;

(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and

(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) a grenade launcher;

(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Understanding “Assault Weapons” and “Large Capacity Weapons”
A guideline for Massachusetts

http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/awfacts.html

But even that doesn't address the EOPS "ruling" that you can't modify a factory-built AW to make it legal. I think this is BS, but it is info supplied to DAs/prosecutors in the hopes that they will prosecute people with it.

 

[Carnea]

The laws on "Assault Rifles" is so very clear and easy to understand...

Should be as simple as this:

If you use a rifle to assault someone, then it is an "Assault Rifle"...if not, then it is simply a "Rifle".

 

[joeendris]

But even that doesn't address the EOPS "ruling" that you can't modify a factory-built AW to make it legal. I think this is BS, but it is info supplied to DAs/prosecutors in the hopes that they will prosecute people with it.

And therein lies the problem with this state. The system, and the people who run this system, are looking for ways to prosecute you. They don't really care about right or wrong, they're looking for hash marks in their belt, nothing more. Look to that monkey Blodgett for a prime example of assclowns.

 

[herdbull]

This is all so confusing especially to newbies like me!!!! Several local shops sell the Stag Arms model 8 and that unit has a 6 position stock, pistol grip and a pressed on flash suppressor....how is this MA compliant?

 

[glide]

1.) don't take legal advice from a gun dealer
2.) S&W makes a MA compliant version of that rifle. Buy that one if you want it.

 

[jasons]

This is all so confusing especially to newbies like me!!!! Several local shops sell the Stag Arms model 8 and that unit has a 6 position stock, pistol grip and a pressed on flash suppressor....how is this MA compliant?

As you've described it, it's not. Are you sure it's really a collapsable stock or does it just look like one? Also is it actually a flash suppressor or is it really a compensator?

 

[drgrant]

But even that doesn't address the EOPS "ruling" that you can't modify a factory-built AW to make it legal. I think this is BS, but it is info supplied to DAs/prosecutors in the hopes that they will attempt to prosecute people with it.

Fixed it for you, Len. There still is the lingering issue of the that other stupid edict from EOPS, too, the other legally erroneous AW memo they sent out, that they have not retracted. Thankfully most dealers in MA have basically taken that one and put it in the shredder.

-Mike

 

[rkwjunior]

This is all so confusing especially to newbies like me!!!! Several local shops sell the Stag Arms model 8 and that unit has a 6 position stock, pistol grip and a pressed on flash suppressor....how is this MA compliant?

As far as i know, FFL dealers are allowed to have them, they just can't sell it if you live in this God awful state.

 

[maglock]

This is all so confusing especially to newbies like me!!!! Several local shops sell the Stag Arms model 8 and that unit has a 6 position stock, pistol grip and a pressed on flash suppressor....how is this MA compliant?

As said above, all MA compliant Stags have pinned stocks, but they look like collapsible stocks. They do not have flash suppressors, they are muzzle brakes. Ma FFL can carry any firearm they want to carry, even if it doesn't meet the MA requirements. The MA AG requirements only restrict what they can sell to MA residents, they can sell anything that meets Federal requirements to anyone outside of MA.