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Confused or overly cautious FFLs?

M

Machines

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Just had an experience I hadn't encountered before. An FFL who agreed to receive a preban (early '80s) rifle for me called me back and said they'd thought it over and wouldn't touch it. When I asked why, he started quoting the 1998 handgun laws about approved rosters and the pre-98 state registration requirements. Thought there was some confusion about it being a rifle, but no, he said because it had a folding stock he had to abide by those laws, and even if I was right he wouldn't risk it.

I've had great experiences with them in the past but it dawns on me now I've only seen them sell hunting rifles.
 
I think this behavior pre-dates Healy's BS, but 7/20 certainly didn't help. An FFL pulled the same thing with me WRT to a Pre Ban Rifle. They confused/mixed up the handgun laws and referenced that "They can't transfer a Colt by name". I wasn't about to change the guys mind, so I found another shop who was happy to help me.
 
To be a FFL in MA requires that you are also a lawyer or close to one; otherwise you have to be willing to take on risk where you are unable to assess that risk (you are not a lawyer or close to one after all).

Every FFL is able to understand the laws, CMRs, AG guidance, etc at a different level. They also are willing to take on more or less risk associated with the more difficult to understand parts.

If the FFL you have been dealing with will not execute the transaction, have him xfer the rifle to another FFL that will and give your business to that FFL.

There are a number of us FFLs that are able to understand the law, CMRs, etc (and/or have good lawyers) and know what we can and cannot do. That is no guarantee that we will not get jammed up because in MA, the law has never stopped the AG or any DA from pursuing a conviction on the "GUNS!!!!" as the overriding law.

Remember, just because it is legal, does not mean that the FFL is not taking a risk. It costs money to defend yourself from the AG or a DA even if you are "right".
 
Had almost the same thing happen but luckily it was an in state transfer so we just did a efa10 in the shops parking lot. (Preban underfolder)
 
I can't be too harsh on these guys.
I was an FFL during the Clinton years, a very scary time.
One mistake, just one and your screwed.
The dogs are waiting right outside the gate for you to mess up even one tiny bit .
If your shop is what keeps a roof over your family's head and food on the table , how far are you willing to test it?

Edited to add: We did have one guy come in that we knew damn well was either ATF or State sucking around for us to do some " Off book" stuff .
It was a case of GTFO.
 
That’s hardly a new phenomenon... I’d find another dealer... the few knowledgeable FFLs I use now will still only let your push things so far.... the whole healey decree pretty much means even if you follow the laws it may still be Illegal in the eyes of the AG.

Just ironic if it was full auto the transfer would be a none issue.
 
I don't mind if an FFL has some peculiar store policy, but getting told the handgun laws prohibit rifles kinda threw me. Anyone have an FFL in the north shore area that accepts shipments from individuals?
 
It's not just a Mass/Maura issue. It's the ATF that makes FFLs skittish. ATF also encourages FFLs to deny transfers unless they're certain that it's legal.

When I had my 03 (C&R FFL). I lost track of how many 01 FFLs had no clue what C&R even was, or who were certain they knew (but were totally wrong), or who simply wouldn't accept it for a transfer. That wasn't Mass, that was in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.
 
Sad state of affairs for both FFLs and buyers. There are a few FFLs that are still pretty knowlegeable about the pre-94 stuff out there in MA. I had a friend transfer a .308 Galil and .223 Valmet to another person through an FFL in MA recently. The seller's uncle left all the paperwork from MVP sports of all places. Dates of purchase were 86 and 87 I think...Now if we were all that lucky.
 
Last edited:
Machines said:
Just had an experience I hadn't encountered before. An FFL who agreed to receive a preban (early '80s) rifle for me called me back and said they'd thought it over and wouldn't touch it. When I asked why, he started quoting the 1998 handgun laws about approved rosters and the pre-98 state registration requirements. Thought there was some confusion about it being a rifle, but no, he said because it had a folding stock he had to abide by those laws, and even if I was right he wouldn't risk it.

I've had great experiences with them in the past but it dawns on me now I've only seen them sell hunting rifles.
Click to expand...

He's just retarded, stay away and let them go out of business....
 
KBCraig said:
It's not just a Mass/Maura issue. It's the ATF that makes FFLs skittish. ATF also encourages FFLs to deny transfers unless they're certain that it's legal.

When I had my 03 (C&R FFL). I lost track of how many 01 FFLs had no clue what C&R even was, or who were certain they knew (but were totally wrong), or who simply wouldn't accept it for a transfer. That wasn't Mass, that was in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.
Click to expand...

I agree but 95% of the FFLs in MA aren't THAT paranoid. Most of the free state fails can be chalked up to a lack of understanding of the laws, particularly with C&R....
 
A while ago, I bought a Daewoo DR-200 with paperwork showing that it was imported in 1991, and the importer of record closed in 1992. It still took me 6 FFL's to find someone willing to transfer it.
 
Time to find
Machines said:
Just had an experience I hadn't encountered before. An FFL who agreed to receive a preban (early '80s) rifle for me called me back and said they'd thought it over and wouldn't touch it. When I asked why, he started quoting the 1998 handgun laws about approved rosters and the pre-98 state registration requirements. Thought there was some confusion about it being a rifle, but no, he said because it had a folding stock he had to abide by those laws, and even if I was right he wouldn't risk it.

I've had great experiences with them in the past but it dawns on me now I've only seen them sell hunting rifles.
Click to expand...
Time to find another FFL
 
CrackPot said:
To be a FFL in MA requires that you are also a lawyer or close to one; otherwise you have to be willing to take on risk where you are unable to assess that risk (you are not a lawyer or close to one after all).

Every FFL is able to understand the laws, CMRs, AG guidance, etc at a different level. They also are willing to take on more or less risk associated with the more difficult to understand parts.

If the FFL you have been dealing with will not execute the transaction, have him xfer the rifle to another FFL that will and give your business to that FFL.

There are a number of us FFLs that are able to understand the law, CMRs, etc (and/or have good lawyers) and know what we can and cannot do. That is no guarantee that we will not get jammed up because in MA, the law has never stopped the AG or any DA from pursuing a conviction on the "GUNS!!!!" as the overriding law.

Remember, just because it is legal, does not mean that the FFL is not taking a risk. It costs money to defend yourself from the AG or a DA even if you are "right".
Click to expand...
Hell, this applies to gun owners too not just FFL’s in this state.
 
Machines said:
I don't mind if an FFL has some peculiar store policy, but getting told the handgun laws prohibit rifles kinda threw me. Anyone have an FFL in the north shore area that accepts shipments from individuals?
Click to expand...
Have you reached out to Steve at northeast arms in Peabody?
 
You know what regulation I'm tired of abiding by? The one where for every gun that has a magazine, I've got to publish how many copies of said magazine was sold every year. ZERO! Gosh! Why do I have to do this????


LOL. Folding stock = pistol. Funny stuff.

I've seen a few strange ones. I had one guy that wouldn't take in an Uzi. Uzi's stopped being imported WELL before the Ban. But the only pre-bans he will sell are ones HE acquires. Not sure if he's being safe or greedy.

Another won't touch pistol frames. Just won't do it. ???? OK.
 
Disclaimer: The below is rampant speculation and I have no simple way of confirming this...

The other possibility I just thought of, is that this FFL signed a consent decree enema with Maura Healey (or some other goon from the AGs office) and can't admit it because he got gagged by the gag order in the enema. See also, "The Gun Parlor" consent decree enema debacle. So maybe he's on double secret probation?



On the other hand I don't know how a business could possibly exist under that. Maybe he didn't get an attorney and signed his life away on the HealyFleetEnema
box...

-Mike
 

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