Conceled Carry - Law Enforcement

[ken1234]

carry

since you want to go on with your silly post about not saying to a PO that you are armed..well it would come under safety and good order...under those chapters that you so kindly showed me..first there is probable cause..traffic stop,stumbbling,you fit the description of a hold-up person ect. then when confronted the PO askes if you are carying any weapons....then ..after probable cause being there he has the right to pat seach you. once he finds your gun the chief will write a letter or call your home town chief..and then that chief will revoke your LTC and weapons and you can get a lawyer...and i say silly post..if you were not doing anything and licensed..what do you have to worry about.go to logan airport ,for example and let one of the POs stop you and ask that and see what happens

 

[M1911]

since you want to go on with your silly post about not saying to a PO that you are armed..

Ken:

I really don't understand why you are responding in such a hostile manner. Please re-read my posts. I never said you were wrong. I never said there isn't such a law. I never said that if a police officer asks you whether you are carrying that you should not answer appropriately. I have not criticized you in any of my posts and there is no reason for you to respond to my polite request in a hostile manner.

Here is your post:

in mass it is the law that when a PO askes if you are carrying( or do you have any weapons on you) you must inform..otherwise you do not have to give the info...otherwise it is a crime...

All I asked is that you provide a citation for this law:

Do you have a citation for that?

well it would come under safety and good order...under those chapters that you so kindly showed me

Then would you be so kind then to point me to the chapter and section? I've looked for it but I can not find it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I can't find it.

..first there is probable cause..traffic stop,stumbbling,you fit the description of a hold-up person ect. then when confronted the PO askes if you are carying any weapons....then ..after probable cause being there he has the right to pat seach you. once he finds your gun the chief will write a letter or call your home town chief..and then that chief will revoke your LTC and weapons and you can get a lawyer...and i say silly post..if you were not doing anything and licensed..what do you have to worry about.go to logan airport ,for example and let one of the POs stop you and ask that and see what happens

Ken, I repeat again, there is a difference between what is a wise recommendation and what the law requires. Please reread my posts carefully. I never suggested that someone should not answer a police officer who asks if they are carrying.

What I am asking, again, is that you point me to the law that requires someone to answer such a question. Again, I'm not saying that such a law does not exist. I'm not in any way criticizing you. I'm admitting my ignorance and saying that I'm not aware of it. If you are aware of it, then please educate me and show me where it is.

I try my best to understand the Massachusetts gun laws, so I would be grateful if you would point me to the appropriate chapter and section in the Massachusetts General Laws.

 

[ken1234]

carry

I did ..it comes under safety and good order..if it is not understandable than you will have to consult a lawyer...

 

[jhblaze1]

 

[M1911]

I did ..it comes under safety and good order..if it is not understandable than you will have to consult a lawyer...

Which chapter and section is that? All of Chapter 140 is titled "public safety and good order", so saying it is in "safety and good order" doesn't help me find it.

 

[ken1234]

carry

that is why they have lawyers..I am retired and don't get the 250.00 a hour fee..like lawyers do..if you feel you are in the right then go into public places,such as the patriots games or logan and when asked if you have any weapons on you..then don't answer..also be aware of what is called a threshhold investigation..and the law allows a PO to frisk you for weapons for his safety..when you are in public different standards apply...that is it for me go and have yourself a good time and welcome to mass.

 

[M1911]

Ken:

Once again, you are either not reading what I wrote or you are making incorrect assumptions. Please read this carefully. I have NEVER said that a person should not answer that question appropriately. I have never advocated that. I'm not advocating that now.

You said:

in mass it is the law that when a PO askes if you are carrying( or do you have any weapons on you) you must inform..otherwise you do not have to give the info...otherwise it is a crime...

I asked you to provide a citation. You are unable to do so.

If a police officer stops you in a traffic stop and asks "are there any guns in the vehicle..." there are several ways you could answer if you are carrying. You could say "I have an LTC and I'm carrying." You could lie and hope he doesn't ask you out of the car -- if he does, then he's going to frisk you and he's probably not going to be happy when he finds your gun. You could say "there is no contraband in the car." We can have a polite discussion about which might be the best course of action.

MA gun laws are hard to understand. But we should be careful to distinguish between things that are illegal versus those that may be unwise.

For example, many people (myself included) recommend against carrying openly in MA, but it is legal. There may well be bad consequences for carrying openly -- for example, a person might call the police, the police might make a report, your police chief might pull your license due to unsuitability, etc. But that doesn't make it illegal to carry openly.

Welcome Mass? I've been here since 1984, but thanks anyways.

 

[Coyote33]

...If a police officer stops you in a traffic stop and asks "are there any guns in the vehicle..." there are several ways you could answer if you are carrying. ...You could lie and hope he doesn't ask you out of the car -- if he does, then he's going to frisk you and he's probably not going to be happy when he finds your gun. ...

Is telling this lie illegal?

 

[M1911]

Is telling this lie illegal?

I don't know. If I am understanding ken1234 correctly, he is saying that it is, but has not provided any citation to backup that assertion.

 

[Coyote33]

I don't know. If I am understanding ken1234 correctly, he is saying that it is, but has not provided any citation to backup that assertion.

I thought you were asking about whether you have to do as told when asked if you have ... hmmmm, maybe that IS the same thing.

 

[M1911]

I thought you were asking about whether you have to do as told when asked if you have ... hmmmm, maybe that IS the same thing.

Sorry, I'm not following you here.

 

[scooter]

Just doing everyday errand ect.Sometimes your carring and the kids come into the picture during the day

 

[abomb60]

Is anyone here that worried about carrying when their children are around especially when out running errands and such? I would think that's the time you'd want to be carrying. I guess my thoughts are if the gun is by my side then I know they're not gonna get to it.

 

[digitech]

I would hate to think that i could not protect them if i had to.

 

[digitech]

Oh and

From Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law 12th Edition

ENFORCEMENT GUIDELINES

Where a police officer personally observes an individual with a firearm, the following option is available:

• Demand that the person exhibit a Firearms Identification Card (FID) or License to Carry (LTC), assuming the person is outside the limits of their own property on residence. G.L. c. 140, § 129C. On failure, the person may be required to surrender the firearm, although failure is not made criminal. Com. v. Jones, 372 Mass. 403, 361 N.E.2d 1308 (1977). In Com. v. Haskell, the court suppressed the answer to the officer’s inquiry as to whether the defendant had a permit to possess the revolver he produced at the officer’s request. If the officer had simply demanded to see any license, this would have been permitted under G.L. c. 140, § 129C.
Where a police officer receives a report that a person is in possession of a firearm,
but the weapon is not visible to the officer, the following options are available:

• Asking the person if they have a firearm. (Sometimes closely approaching such persons is referred to as an “encounter”.)

• If they confirm they are in possession of a gun, the officer may:
o Insist that they hand it over if there is a reasonable belief that the safety of the officer or
public is in jeopardy, or that the person has used it in a crime or is about to do so.

• If they deny they have a firearm, or refuse to answer, and the officer does not reasonably perceive
danger to the officer or the public, the person is free to continue on their way.

• If they deny they have a firearm on them, or refuse to answer, but the officer has a reasonable
belief that the person is armed and presents a danger to the officer or public, the officer may
conduct a pat frisk of the individual. If a weapon is found, it may be held by the officer while
conducting the field inquiry. So long as the person is properly licensed, and no arrest takes place,
the gun must be returned at the conclusion of the interview.
o Ask them to voluntarily hand it over just while the interview takes place; or

• Regardless of a person’s response to whether they are in possession of a firearm, if the officer has a warrant, or has probable cause to arrest them for a crime, the officer may conduct a thorough search (not just a pat frisk) and take possession of any weapon.



• Where the person appears to be a minor, and therefore, too young to have a LTC or FID Card (without a parent or guardian present), the police may have reason to believe that a crime is being committed (unlawful carrying of a firearm) justifying a stop rather than a mere encounter.


SUMMARY

It is not illegal in all cases to possess a gun in Massachusetts. Before conducting a pat frisk, officers must have a reasonable belief that the person is armed and dangerous. The more reliable the report of the suspect’s having a firearm, the more details in the possession of the officers to correctly identify the suspect, and the more circumstances indicating that the safety of the officers and the public require positive responsive action by the police, the more likely it will be that the officers’ actions will be lawful.

 

[rogersmithiii]

got your email 1911 and I guess I was wrong...so go out tonight and have a lEO ask you if have any weapons on you and have your gun on you concealed and answer NO..and if he finds it watch what happens...that is why they make lawyers I guess..do some research on the laws of different states along with mass. You don't go out and get a gun and learn how to put bullets in..it is your responsibility to know the law...

Officer. I thought you meant "illegal guns". I never carry illegal guns. This one is legal, sir.

One explanation.