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Compromise - background checks in exchange for . . .

Federalist 46 seems to explain perfectly why 'progressives' in the early part of the 20th century - basically subsumed the REAL militia - into the National Guard.

They managed to get rid of that pesky counterforce to the 'regular army'.

Yet one more way the Republic, and liberty - were sabotaged thru governmental sleight of hand.

Great point. I think it was Arizona that recently passed a law, re-authorizing a state millitia separate from the NG

The aptly named Dick Act required states to split their millitia into the NG and a reserve force. Most states just dropped the reserve force, which would have been under only state control.

But even then the constitution in a betrayal to the idea that state millitias should be able to stand up to the army, contains the "Millitia Clause" which allows the Federal government to "provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"
 
One other thought. My resistance to compromise is because these deals are seen as a "first step" by the Antis.

If a compromise would guarantee that there would be no further attempts to abridge my rights, then I'd be more flexible. i.e. if the Anti's were negotiating in good faith, I'd be willing to negotiate. But they arent', so I'm not inclined to do so.

For years, most anti's said things like "common sense" "gun safety". Then after Newtown we saw the true colors of many of CT's politicians, with several getting on board a proposal to limit the citizens of CT to single shot muskets.

As a side note, there used to be a supposedly middle ground group (although we would consider it to be anti) called "Americans For Gun Safety" or some BS like that. AGS didn't last very long and it folded after a few years after some other charity org absorbed it. The fact that it never took off is a testament to the FACT that this isn't about "common sense" or "gun safety" etc, when only the extremist anti groups got any traction or membership. Their entire agenda is about civilian disarmament, and anyone who believes otherwise is either mentally retarded or a liar.

-Mike
 
How often do you hear "this is a good first step but more can be done."
about a million times after each law they pass.

I would trade UBC for a repeal of all gun laws including the newly passed UBC itself. Let's be reasonable antis!! At least we would be "doing something"TM
 
As a side note, there used to be a supposedly middle ground group (although we would consider it to be anti) called "Americans For Gun Safety" or some BS like that. AGS didn't last very long and it folded after a few years after some other charity org absorbed it. The fact that it never took off is a testament to the FACT that this isn't about "common sense" or "gun safety" etc, when only the extremist anti groups got any traction or membership. Their entire agenda is about civilian disarmament, and anyone who believes otherwise is either mentally retarded or a liar.

-Mike

Anyone remember the "American Hunters and Shooters Association"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Hunters_and_Shooters_Association

Same clowns... different circus.

Our dear buddy, John Rosenthal was a founding member (that alone should tell you something).

They too took the "common sense", kinder and gentler approach to gun control... aka 'Fudd think'.

Most "common sense" 2ndA advocates recognized them for what they were... a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Fast forward to 2014 - 2015, and replace them with Gabby Giffords group... "we really do support the 2ndA, and like guns, just
like you guys, but..."

Same clowns... different circus.
 
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I'm a fairly simple, and sometimes suborn, person. I will not engage in negotiating an issue that is already protected by the Constitution/Bill of Rights.
 
Re the George Washington meme.

Its cute, but not quite right.

The tea act that actually caused the Boston Tea Party did not increase the cost of tea. It gave a monopoly to the British East India company and eliminated many American merchants from the supply chain. Even with the 3% tax, the cost of tea actually decreased.

What really lead to the armed rebellion were the Intolerable Acts. These were a series of punative laws passed by the British in retaliation against the colonies AFTER the boston tea party.

Just thought I'd mention that.
 
Re the George Washington meme.

Its cute, but not quite right.

The tea act that actually caused the Boston Tea Party did not increase the cost of tea. It gave a monopoly to the British East India company and eliminated many American merchants from the supply chain. Even with the 3% tax, the cost of tea actually decreased.

What really lead to the armed rebellion were the Intolerable Acts. These were a series of punative laws passed by the British in retaliation against the colonies AFTER the boston tea party.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Yes. In fact, you bring up something that is a quite interesting facet of the American revolution - the monarchy was a yoke that weighed on the necks of rich individuals (merchants etc) in the colonies, and they wanted more say in how things were run, which the Crown didn't really give them. When the revolution was over, did they have any problem creating a state that imposed the same sort of burdens on those beneath them? Absolutely not. Hence the Whiskey rebellion and Shaw's (i think) rebellion in Western MA, two rebellions that were at least as justified as the American Revolution. All that stuff that Alexander Hamilton says about not taking guns away from people? I think he is one of the original progressive "compromise" guys. Sure, he said that people would get to keep their guns, but the guy wanted a Federal Bank! He was totally about state control. And statists gonna state.
 
Read the Declaration of Independence. I think taxes are 17th or 19th on the list of grievances. It's a good read and really short, I highly recommend it!

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
Shay's rebellion had many of the same causes: a distant, disinterested elite. While the whiskey rebellion seems to have been mostly about taxes, the reason for Shay's rebellion seems about the same as the reasons given in the declaration of independence to overthrow the crown
 
Shay's rebellion had many of the same causes: a distant, disinterested elite. While the whiskey rebellion seems to have been mostly about taxes, the reason for Shay's rebellion seems about the same as the reasons given in the declaration of independence to overthrow the crown
It would be a mistake to say that all of the influences that led to the revolution were purge from our government during the revolution. Monarchists, particularly in the North and especially in MA and NY were quite keen on recreating the abuses of power of the crown, but under their banner with them as the new nobles.
 
It would be a mistake to say that all of the influences that led to the revolution were purge from our government during the revolution. Monarchists, particularly in the North and especially in MA and NY were quite keen on recreating the abuses of power of the crown, but under their banner with them as the new nobles.
Yeah, and what I'm saying is that to a large extent the American Revolution was just a switch in who held the reins
 
Yeah, and what I'm saying is that to a large extent the American Revolution was just a switch in who held the reins
Well, it was a giant leap forward from the Magna Carta, but it, as freedom does, requires constant effort to remain free on our part.

It provided the framework, now its up to us to enforce it.
 
Well, it was a giant leap forward from the Magna Carta, but it, as freedom does, requires constant effort to remain free on our part.

It provided the framework, now its up to us to enforce it.

The magna carta was a compact between the English monarch and his nobles. It never was really a "constitution" the British constitution is now as it was then an unwritten one. If you look at Blackstone's Commentary on English Laws, many of the things that the Constitution enshrines were commonly understood at the time to be the rights of Englishmen, ie Blackstone on the right to bear arms:

“Self defense is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society.”


“In these several articles consist the rights, or, as they are frequently termed, the liberties of Englishmen. . . . So long as these remain in*violate, the subject is perfectly free; for every species of compulsive tyranny and oppression must act in opposition to one or other of these rights, having no other object upon which it can possibly be employed. . . . And, lastly, to vindicate these rights, when actually violated or attacked, the subjects of England are entitled, in the first place, to the regular administration and free course of justice in the courts of law; next, to the right of petitioning the king and parliament for redress of grievances; and, lastly, to the right of having and using arms for self-
preservation and defense.”
 
Well, it was a giant leap forward from the Magna Carta, but it, as freedom does, requires constant effort to remain free on our part.

It provided the framework, now its up to us to enforce it.

The natural tendency of states is to abrogate Natural Freedom. The state and freedom are at odds and there is no nation on earth ever that did not take away freedom and seldom is it ever given back without bloodshed.

Even the Catholic Church recognizes the right/duty of self defense:

Canon 2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow
 
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The magna carta was a compact between the English monarch and his nobles. It never was really a "constitution" the British constitution is now as it was then an unwritten one. If you look at Blackstone's Commentary on English Laws, many of the things that the Constitution enshrines were commonly understood at the time to be the rights of Englishmen, ie Blackstone on the right to bear arms:

“Self defense is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society.”


“In these several articles consist the rights, or, as they are frequently termed, the liberties of Englishmen. . . . So long as these remain in*violate, the subject is perfectly free; for every species of compulsive tyranny and oppression must act in opposition to one or other of these rights, having no other object upon which it can possibly be employed. . . . And, lastly, to vindicate these rights, when actually violated or attacked, the subjects of England are entitled, in the first place, to the regular administration and free course of justice in the courts of law; next, to the right of petitioning the king and parliament for redress of grievances; and, lastly, to the right of having and using arms for self-
preservation and defense.”
Indeed, the Magna Carta asked the King to be nicer.

The Constitution told the King he was a fraud and held no power over free men.
 
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