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Comm2A Wins in Federal Court - Mass Alienage Ban Overturned

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I just got another email from a green card holder in northeast MA. They told him two weeks tell he gets his LTC.

Why is it that some departments can issue licenses in a few weeks and others take months to do it??????[hmmm]
 

jar

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Why is it that some departments can issue licenses in a few weeks and others take months to do it??????[hmmm]

Sounds like a question for the federal courts, eventually. It's looking like Fletcher may be a much better strategic move than I originally thought.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2
 
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... two weeks tell he gets his LTC.

Why is it that some departments can issue licenses in a few weeks and others take months to do it??????[hmmm]

A-Right-Delayed-is-a-Right-Denied.gif


(from: http://punsnotgunspeaceblog.com/2007/12/ )
 
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M1911

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Boston is all set. I guess there was kind of oversight, but now they're 'eager' to accept applications from green card holders. At least that's what their lawyer told our lawyer.[smile]

I would have loved to have been in the room when their lawyer the powers that be that they can't keep doing what they are doing.
 

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Boston is all set. I guess there was kind of oversight, but now they're 'eager' to accept applications from green card holders. At least that's what their lawyer told our lawyer.[smile]

Crap, I was hoping that Boston would fight it and argue in court that they are ABOVE any Fed Court ruling! [rofl] [rofl] [rofl]
 
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Some of these departments just need someone they recognize as an authority figure to tell them what they should be doing.

Welcome to my world. Police leaders are afraid to change on their own intitative because they think they'll screw something up and get in trouble or be sued.
 
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The to best of my knowledge we're not aware of any green card holders in Braintree. If you are one get out there an apply and let us know if they give you and $hit.

Sure.

But it's going to take a while to get the membership of the BRP and 5 reference letters done before I could submit the application. [thinking]
 

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Sure.

But it's going to take a while to get the membership of the BRP and 5 reference letters done before I could submit the application. [thinking]

Sadly green-card holders are not going to be able to join Braintree R&P Club. BR&P (like another club I belonged to for a very long time) have a membership requirement in their Bylaws that require US Citizenship. I made mention of perhaps re-thinking this to our club president (BR&P) and it was "not well received"! I also remember probably 25-30 years ago a similar discussion at my prior club wrt a Greek Native who wanted membership in said club and the club decided not to change their Bylaws either. The gentleman in that case was well-known to club members as he shot skeet and trap weekly as a guest for a number of years.

Having tried to get a Bylaw changed at BR&P is damn near impossible, especially if the BOD doesn't support it. I once did that "tilting at windmills" routine with an attempt to require GOAL membership of all new members (only, it wouldn't have effected current members) and I got absolutely nowhere with it. I won't be trying that again!

To any green-card holders reading this thread . . . check the bylaws of any club that interests you carefully to see if they allow non-Citizens. I suspect that many won't, but hopefully some will change their rules eventually.
 

drgrant

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Sadly green-card holders are not going to be able to join Braintree R&P Club. BR&P (like another club I belonged to for a very long time) have a membership requirement in their Bylaws that require US Citizenship. I made mention of perhaps re-thinking this to our club president (BR&P) and it was "not well received"! I also remember probably 25-30 years ago a similar discussion at my prior club wrt a Greek Native who wanted membership in said club and the club decided not to change their Bylaws either. The gentleman in that case was well-known to club members as he shot skeet and trap weekly as a guest for a number of years.

Having tried to get a Bylaw changed at BR&P is damn near impossible, especially if the BOD doesn't support it. I once did that "tilting at windmills" routine with an attempt to require GOAL membership of all new members (only, it wouldn't have effected current members) and I got absolutely nowhere with it. I won't be trying that again!

To any green-card holders reading this thread . . . check the bylaws of any club that interests you carefully to see if they allow non-Citizens. I suspect that many won't, but hopefully some will change their rules eventually.

I would hope one would be able to get them to change their standpoint at this stage of the game, particularly considering that even the state (reluctantly, of course, lol ) now recognizes how brain dead it is to restrict lawful aliens from having anything to do with firearms. I mean, how does that make the club look when even the state (one of the worst for owning guns in the entire nation) doesn't restrict it anymore?

Course I realize this is all a pipe dream of course. A lot of these clubs have the "smoke filled back room" type of management going on and it's difficult to get them to
change anything fundamental, even if one DOES get involved. (I know lots of people who volunteer time etc for gun clubs, staff positions, etc, but getting anything meaningful changed is often impossible at a lot of these places due to burned in/entrenched legacy culture. )

-Mike
 

M1911

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Course I realize this is all a pipe dream of course. A lot of these clubs have the "smoke filled back room" type of management going on and it's difficult to get them to change anything fundamental, even if one DOES get involved. (I know lots of people who volunteer time etc for gun clubs, staff positions, etc, but getting anything meaningful changed is often impossible at a lot of these places due to burned in/entrenched legacy culture. )

It can take a very long time. There was one rule at our club that I was only able to get passed after a certain member left the board. That was after several tries over about a 10 year period.

People don't like change.
 

Len-2A Training

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It can take a very long time. There was one rule at our club that I was only able to get passed after a certain member left the board. That was after several tries over about a 10 year period.

People don't like change.


Yup, I'm done playing "Don Quixote" at the club, I'll let others pick up the slack. The reaction I got when I asked if the BOD might consider it tells me all I need to know about any possibility of making that change from "outside the BOD".
It's a great club and I'll just continue to enjoy it as a paying member and leave management to manage it (they do a damn good job overall).
 
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Sadly green-card holders are not going to be able to join Braintree R&P Club. BR&P (like another club I belonged to for a very long time) have a membership requirement in their Bylaws that require US Citizenship. I made mention of perhaps re-thinking this to our club president (BR&P) and it was "not well received"! I also remember probably 25-30 years ago a similar discussion at my prior club wrt a Greek Native who wanted membership in said club and the club decided not to change their Bylaws either. The gentleman in that case was well-known to club members as he shot skeet and trap weekly as a guest for a number of years.

Having tried to get a Bylaw changed at BR&P is damn near impossible, especially if the BOD doesn't support it. I once did that "tilting at windmills" routine with an attempt to require GOAL membership of all new members (only, it wouldn't have effected current members) and I got absolutely nowhere with it. I won't be trying that again!

To any green-card holders reading this thread . . . check the bylaws of any club that interests you carefully to see if they allow non-Citizens. I suspect that many won't, but hopefully some will change their rules eventually.

Ooooops...

This is going to be really sad. Now it's another dead end.
 
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One thing to consider with BR&P is the possible history of the club's alien ban. It's quote possible that the ban was enacted because aliens couldn't own handguns.

There was a group of monkeys with a stairway with food at the top. Every time a monkey walked up the stairs to get the food, he was sprayed with water. Eventually, all the monkeys learned this and would not go up. A new monkey was introduced and when he tried to go up, the other monkeys knew about the problem and stopped him. The monkeys were replaced one by one until there were no monkeys left who had ever seen or experienced the water spray. Even so, all of these monkeys, who had no idea why, would stop any new monkey who tried to go for the food ... simply because it had always been done that way.
 

Len-2A Training

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One thing to consider with BR&P is the possible history of the club's alien ban. It's quote possible that the ban was enacted because aliens couldn't own handguns.

Well BR&P has been around since the late 1800s, so I have no idea the history of this requirement.

At my first gun club I seem to remember (25-30 yrs ago so fuzzy memory) that the discussion centered around the club requirement on the application that you swore allegiance to the US and that if you aren't a citizen you can't have any allegiance to a foreign (to you) country and thus such oath is meaningless. That club was formed in the 1930s and only men (no Jews allowed) were allowed to join. With the run-up of Germany preparing for war, I suspect that the citizenship requirement was intended to prevent allowing a "potential enemy" from learning shooting skills.
 

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According to my club's bylaws US citizenship is required too.

I think that if one looks carefully, they will find that many/most clubs in MA have this requirement. I'm sure that the history of such a requirement would be interesting to know.
 

M1911

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LenS said:
Yup, I'm done playing "Don Quixote" at the club, I'll let others pick up the slack. The reaction I got when I asked if the BOD might consider it tells me all I need to know about any possibility of making that change from "outside the BOD".
It's a great club and I'll just continue to enjoy it as a paying member and leave management to manage it (they do a damn good job overall).

I was inside the BOD when I helped make changes to the bylaws. Yet is best to get a director to lead the charge on changes like this.
 

M1911

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wormsoldier said:
Ooooops...

This is going to be really sad. Now it's another dead end.

There are plenty of other clubs than Braintree and not all of them require citizenship. Don't give up because the BOD of Braintree is misguided.
 

M1911

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LenS said:
I think that if one looks carefully, they will find that many/most clubs in MA have this requirement. I'm sure that the history of such a requirement would be interesting to know.

Many, but I doubt that most do.
 

Len-2A Training

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Many, but I doubt that most do.

Review of the Bylaws for Mansfield F&G shows that US Citizenship is NOT required.

For wormsoldier - - There are clubs at Weymouth and Holbrook. I have no idea what their requirements are (you can't get to Holbrook's Bylaws on the web unless you are a member there, never looked for the Weymouth club).
 
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Review of the Bylaws for Mansfield F&G shows that US Citizenship is NOT required.

For wormsoldier - - There are clubs at Weymouth and Holbrook. I have no idea what their requirements are (you can't get to Holbrook's Bylaws on the web unless you are a member there, never looked for the Weymouth club).

Thank you, LenS! I'll check out other clubs around area.

But I already reserved the seat for the next coming orientation in BR&P next week. Do you think I should go and see if the BOD could give any alternatives?
 

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Sorry, but you'll just be wasting your time. The BOD does not change Bylaws at BR&P, it is done only at the Annual Meeting in December each year. I also know that without BOD support, any changes to the Bylaws have ZERO chance of passage and I sensed no support for such a change when I mentioned this case and the change in law. I wish that I had hopes of such a change, but 13 years as an active member tell me otherwise. And with 4000 members, there is no sense that we need to change to gain/bring in new members.

Read the application form, top line or two specifies that one must be a US Citizen. I don't have my Bylaws handy, but I'm sure that it is in there (IIRC the club president mentioned that it would require a Bylaw change).
 
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