Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

[Behind Enemy Lines]

On the phone so I don't have the ruling handy, is an appointment tied to a certain number of people? If a family of four comes in is that one appointment? If 6 guys from my local gun club come in as a group is that one appointment?

 

[Atlantis]

On the phone so I don't have the ruling handy, is an appointment tied to a certain number of people? If a family of four comes in is that one appointment? If 6 guys from my local gun club come in as a group is that one appointment?

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that you are free to interpret it that way, as it is not spelled out. So long as you ensure all of those people stay 6 feet apart, you would be reasonable complying with the law in my court. It's up to you and your lawyer how you feel it would fly in the real court. Personally I say you are good to go.

 

[Dadstoys]

Thank you Comm2A.
It might not be everything we all wanted , but it's a damn sight better than what the other side wanted.
I'm not going to suck up an appointment that some one in need might be able to use.
I've got more guns than they could bury me with and enough ammo to outlast the siege at the Alamo.

PLEASE guys and gals be very aware that this will not sit well at all with Heir Healy and she is dispatching the flying monkeys as we speak.
Don't give her any ammo while you try and get yours.
Just assume that every store is being watched as will this forum.
Sociopaths tend to go off the deep end when challenged .

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Thanks, searching for the official regulation, If anyone has the URL handy, please let me know.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/march-23-2020-essential-services-and-revised-gatherings-order/download

Alinski Rule #4:

“The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

 

[VetteGirlMA]

In Mass, I can walk into my insurance agents office and leave with a registration and plates (and I think register to vote.)
Mass Residents should be able to walk into a gun shop and after MIRCs, leave with a firearm, ammo and a GOAL membership...
(I know MIRCs don't work that way... but it should.)

So I guess half a second amendment is better than no second amendment at all. I guess I could say nyaa nyaa I got my LTC to the newbs walking into a gun shop but you know, grownup responsibilities and all that stuff.

 

[Lank]

https://www.mass.gov/doc/march-23-2020-essential-services-and-revised-gatherings-order/download

Alinski Rule #4:

“The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

I also use ridicule as a weapon

 

[Lank]

On the phone so I don't have the ruling handy, is an appointment tied to a certain number of people? If a family of four comes in is that one appointment? If 6 guys from my local gun club come in as a group is that one appointment?
[/QUOTE
Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[RG Sports]

Great work by NRA-ILA and GOAL and whoever else was responsible for this! Now maybe I can buy my pump action shotgun, just in time to catch one day of turkey season.
Assuming I can get an "appointment" before May 23
Anyway, I can start practicing up for fall turkey, and for deer shotgun.

You can go to NH for that.

 

[PappyM3]

After the ruling, ice cream parlors are still more essential in MA than a constitutionally protected civil right.

 

[mousegunfan]

Will the state appeal and seek a stay?

 

[powerman]

I see a huge loop hole in the order to our advantage.
I mention it earlier in this tread.
not sure I should repeat it.
anyways I think I'll make an a appointment for myself, wife,kids, brother inlaw, and whoever wants to come along

 

[Waher]

Odds are the AG will look at the sales portal for all FFL transactions and flag any store which has more than 4 transactions to different people in an hour. Then they'll send in a local friendly PD or MSP to investigate. No way the Jim Crow loving shitheads give up their f***ery regardless of what a federal judge says.

 

[xtry51]

While the winnis good in the short term, if you can't hold the Governor personally financially and criminally responsible for civil rights violations, the win is completely meaningless as future governors will just continue to issue violations and make citizens spend money fighting them in court.

 

[Dennis in MA]

There are ~1.5 million LTC holders in MA. Let's say there's 100 firearms stores in MA, open 7 days a week for 12 hours a day at 4 transactions per hour. It would take 45 weeks for every LTC holder to be able to get an appointment. Nope no infringement here.

I misread the article - there are 433,000 licensed gun holders.

I’m not agreeing with it, but there are limited RMV offices open by appointment only. 7 business day wait. So there is precedent for it.

Of course grocery stores can be open and set the customer #’s based on their own sizes.

 

[Individualist]

Thanks Comm2A. Keep fighting the fight!
Another donation inbound.

 

[pinefd]

I’m not agreeing with it, but there are limited RMV offices open by appointment only. 7 business day wait. So there is precedent for it.

Of course grocery stores can be open and set the customer #’s based on their own sizes.

And for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get a damn appointment for my daughter, for a transaction that must be done in person! If anyone has any tips, please PM me. And sorry for the thread de-rail.


Frank

 

[terraformer]

What case is this? Just searched google and got :

No results found for "Wesson v. Woods" woodlock

Found a Wasson v. Woods 100 years ago. Interested to see what the case you are referencing is.

Sorry. Brain fart. Wesson was the pot case. It’s Fletcher v Haas.

Fletcher v. Haas - Commonwealth Second Amendment

Challenge to a Massachusetts law that denied firearms licenses to non-citizens. United States District Court — District of Massachusetts (Boston) Filed: April 15, 2011 Status: Win!! The federal court struck down the law as applied to lawful permanent residents (i.e. green card holders)...

comm2a.org

 

[terraformer]

This order is pretty bullshit, and frankly I'm disappointed that nobody fought the 4 appointments/hr.

I'm trying to imagine 4 seasons with 4 appointments an hour...

Who said nobody fought that???

 

[Lank]

Odds are the AG will look at the sales portal for all FFL transactions and flag any store which has more than 4 transactions to different people in an hour. Then they'll send in a local friendly PD or MSP to investigate. No way the Jim Crow loving shitheads give up their f***ery regardless of what a federal judge says.

 

[EJFudd]

Odds are the AG will look at the sales portal for all FFL transactions and flag any store which has more than 4 transactions to different people in an hour.

No odds about it. I guarantee she will be doing that and probably more. Maura has got to be super-pissed that her tyranny was shot down, at least in part, by a Federal judge.

 

[mpd61]

OK,
Good Morning all. Now we have had a chance to sleep on it. First some humor. Anybody ever buy a firearm at Cabela's? Those guys couldn't possibly do four appointments per hour at their gun counter if they had someone standing behind them with whips LOL!!!

Remember God loves Fudds, Cops, and all the others y'all blame for everything. Except Maura............Pretty sure he's disappointed in her

 

[zork51]

While the winnis good in the short term, if you can't hold the Governor personally financially and criminally responsible for civil rights violations, the win is completely meaningless as future governors will just continue to issue violations and make citizens spend money fighting them in court.

Where's the ACLU on behalf of citizens and gun shops getting screwed over being denied financial aid?

 

[xero2099]

Who said nobody fought that???

I know right, people flipping out like this is permanent, for all we know baker could open things up full go next month. would people rather have gone almost 2 months with out gun shops? or work with what we got now

 

[headednorth]

Who said nobody fought that???

My apologies if its been addressed already or if the answer should be obvious but are there any other businesses being limited to X number of customers per hour? If not, what is the states excuse for wanting to place this burden on gun shops? I know other businesses are limited to the number of customers in the store at any one time but afaik there isnt a time aspect attached to it the way it is with gun shops.

Seems it wouldve been logical to say that each shop can allow X number of customers in at any one time according to the square footage of each shop. Shop A is 1000sf so they can let in X customers, shop B is 10000sf so they can let in Xx10 customers. Im assuming thats how others businesses are operating and dont see why gun shops are being treated differently.

What is the justification for the "customer per hour" limitation being placed solely on businesses that sell guns?

 

[Junior314]

Nothing I have seen as restrictive as 4 per hour by appointment only.

My company has restricted based on size of our store to 25-50 customers. Which is silly because we don’t have nearly that many people visiting most of our locations.

 

[nstassel]

People should recognize this decision as a big victory for the 2A community. A judge told the governor and AG that firearm ownership is too important a right to be arbitrarily shut down. That principal is all that matters.

 

[Yazz]

People should recognize this decision as a big victory for the 2A community. A judge told the governor and AG that firearm ownership is too important a right to be arbitrarily shut down. That principal is all that matters.

That may be true.
But the fact that we had to even argue about it the first place is the problem.

 

[Jason Flare]

People should recognize this decision as a big victory for the 2A community. A judge told the governor and AG that firearm ownership is too important a right to be arbitrarily shut down. That principal is all that matters.

I think the judge asked the state under what restrictions they’d be willing to allow gun shops to open, the state responded and the judge agreed.

I don’t see this as the judge telling the AG and governor anything.

I do see it as a victory that the state conceded to allow gun shops to open with restrictions.

 

[Atlantis]

I think the judge asked the state under what restrictions they’d be willing to allow gun shops to open, the state responded and the judge agreed.

I don’t see this as the judge telling the AG and governor anything.

I do see it as a victory that the state conceded to allow gun shops to open with restrictions.

To be fair, the states attorney was like a broken record stating that in no way does their proposed order mean they think it should be ordered. I.e. they did not concede anything, they were ordered by the court to draft something, and they did, but took every chance to say "you should not enact this draft, what we did was already good to go".

The judge did tell them, in pretty plain english, that no, they could not do that.

 

[soam]

To be fair, the states attorney was like a broken record stating that in no way does their proposed order mean they think it should be ordered. I.e. they did not concede anything, they were ordered by the court to draft something, and they did, but took every chance to say "you should not enact this draft, what we did was already good to go".

The judge did tell them, in pretty plain english, that no, they could not do that.

Yeah, it was clear listening to the hearing that the judge had already made the decision that he was going to order that shops were allowed to open, the main purpose of the hearing was to establish the restrictions under which the opening would be allowed.