Comm2A files Amicus in Important Safe Storage Case

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[rockon]

Incoming donation. Hightower was tough from the get-go, this seems solid, kick them in the face with it.

I think it's about time for another donation to Comm2A

This type of thing is exactly why I think Comm2A is worth it.
Thanks everyone.

It's precisely because of our generous donors that we're able to move on something like this as quickly as we did. We had very little notice about this case and terraformer worked his butt off last week to get this out the door. And although he did much of the work saving us a ton of money, these things are still not cheap and we've done two of them recently (more on that latter [wink]). In addition to paying the attorney to complete and file the brief we also have to pay a professional service to proof and format it. Without our modest war chest we would not have the financial flexibility to jump in on something like this when it really counts.

So, just a little reminder... and remember, we now offer secure credit card processing which is considerably less expensive to the organization than is PayPal.
 

Rob Boudrie

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So, just a little reminder... and remember, we now offer secure credit card processing which is considerably less expensive to the organization than is PayPal.

We don't yet have recurring payments on the non-PayPal system yet, but we will (I'll be at the Lee show Sat so probably won't have time this weekend to do it).

Also, it's worth noting that the Comm2A staff is 100.00% volunteer. We pay for some professional services (Legal, brief formatting, accounting, etc.) but nobody on the board takes any salary or stipend, nor do any of us own or run any companies that sells products or services to Comm2A. In short, it's a chicanery free operation. As treasurer, I meet with the Comm2A president a couple of times a year so he can review the books, confirm the money is in the accounts where it is supposed to be, etc.

It is ONLY because of the $$ in the bank that we could act so quickly on this without placing other in-progress projects (for example, the bonded warehouse case) at risk.
 
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We don't yet have recurring payments on the non-PayPal system yet, but we will (I'll be at the Lee show Sat so probably won't have time this weekend to do it).

I was just going to ask about that -- how to switch current recurring payments from paypal to credit card. One small suggestion: add some larger options for monthly contributors.
 

mlaboss

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I especially love the footnote:

Matryoshka Dolls are the dolls of Russian origin where each doll is nested inside the next.

Just in case you didn't know what a Matryoshka doll was.

Just finished reading the brief - I'm very happy to see this getting challenged. Our storage and transportation laws are already asinine as written - the Commonwealth's interpretation of them in this case makes them infinitely worse!
 
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Lets hope. And also, for folks who read Section I, realize the supreme court has already stated that a CT style safe storage law is OK. What they didn't say is OK is what we have in MA as it is applied. It is our hope we can scope §131L down to what CT has which only applies when children are in the home.

Also, one last thing. Check out this dog here http://www.ma-appellatecourts.org/search_number.php?dno=sjc-11076. This is going to screw us and make it harder to get the law down to where it needs to be. We did not file an amicus here because we didn't know about the case and frankly the woman sounds disturbed. It would not have made a great case.

I have little exposure to legal writing, but in comparison to Gura's briefs, the McGowan brief is scatterbrained, unpersuasive and muddied with repetitive, emotional assertions. The need for top-tier legal counsel is very obvious, and I'm glad that my modest monthly donations to Comm2A are being well spent.
 

jasons

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I have little exposure to legal writing, but in comparison to Gura's briefs, the McGowan brief is scatterbrained, unpersuasive and muddied with repetitive, emotional assertions. The need for top-tier legal counsel is very obvious, and I'm glad that my modest monthly donations to Comm2A are being well spent.

McGowan is a shit show that's going to work against us. His lawyer is a moron.
 

jar

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I was just going to ask about that -- how to switch current recurring payments from paypal to credit card. One small suggestion: add some larger options for monthly contributors.

My recurring donation is set up via my bank's bill pay service. They print and mail a check to Comm2A automatically every month. That way, Comm2A doesn't pay credit card processing fees, and I can make the donation any amount that I want.
 
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My recurring donation is set up via my bank's bill pay service. They print and mail a check to Comm2A automatically every month. That way, Comm2A doesn't pay credit card processing fees, and I can make the donation any amount that I want.

This is what I do as well. Although, I wonder how much more work it makes for Rob.
 

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My recurring donation is set up via my bank's bill pay service. They print and mail a check to Comm2A automatically every month. That way, Comm2A doesn't pay credit card processing fees, and I can make the donation any amount that I want.

I did the same but my bank doesn't have recurring payments setup (that I could find) so I had to set it up for each month separately, a nuisance.
 
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'm struck by a couple things with this case. First, the SJC took the case sua sponte rather than waiting for it to progress naturally through the lower courts. Ostensible they do this when they recognize that an important issue of law will create confusion and inconsistent results in the lower courts. A less charitable view of this practice is that the SJC is interested in creating specific outcomes and pro-actively tailoring case law to their liking.

Also, the state has not intervened as they generally do when there's a challenge to the constitutionality of a state law. That makes sense as the SJC can invoke the doctrine of constitutional avoidance and legitimately (and properly) sidestep the whole constitutional issue (vagueness, not 2A) and remand this case back to the district for a new trial.

This is what I do as well. Although, I wonder how much more work it makes for Rob.

Zero work for Rob, I'm the one that goes to the PO and the bank. But both are within walking distance and although I don't go often, some days it's my only excuse for getting out of the house!
 

jasons

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'm struck by a couple things with this case. First, the SJC took the case sua sponte rather than waiting for it to progress naturally through the lower courts.

Perhaps they were looking to time it so that it came near the McGowan case?
 
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Perhaps they were looking to time it so that it came near the McGowan case?
They tend to hear like type cases at the same time I've noticed. Murder appeals on the same day, civil suits on the same day, etc. The could be a couple of reasons for this including creating consistent rulings and consolidating the schedules of people appearing before the court. If there's more than one case involving the state, the same AGA will argue some or all of them.
 

jasons

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They tend to hear like type cases at the same time I've noticed. Murder appeals on the same day, civil suits on the same day, etc. The could be a couple of reasons for this including creating consistent rulings and consolidating the schedules of people appearing before the court. If there's more than one case involving the state, the same AGA will argue some or all of them.

Just seems weird that they've kept McGowan on the back burner for over a year and now they're jumping on it and Reyes at the same time. I smell a fish with McGowan.
 

jasons

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Perhaps??? [wink]

Maybe it was a bit of a leading question. [grin]

I'm basically trying to understand how this game is played, and looking for commentary from those who know. Sounds like this may just be a routine scheduling decision that I'm reading too much into, but I tend to err on the side of skepticism when it involves our benevolent overlords.
 

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Maybe it was a bit of a leading question. [grin]

I'm basically trying to understand how this game is played, and looking for commentary from those who know. Sounds like this may just be a routine scheduling decision that I'm reading too much into, but I tend to err on the side of skepticism when it involves our benevolent overlords.

How the game is played:
First: Deny it's a game to all outsiders (read: non lawyers). This is serious business.
Second: Use any precedent to your advantage regardless of it's absurdity. Precedent = authority.
Third: Obfuscate as much as possible. Trash the case and make it a mess while denying the petitioner, ensuring that superior courts (ie; SCOTUS) are loath to take it because the case doesn't provide a clean, clear path for a finding of law.
 

jasons

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How the game is played:
First: Deny it's a game to all outsiders (read: non lawyers). This is serious business.
Second: Use any precedent to your advantage regardless of it's absurdity. Precedent = authority.
Third: Obfuscate as much as possible. Trash the case and make it a mess while denying the petitioner, ensuring that superior courts (ie; SCOTUS) are loath to take it because the case doesn't provide a clean, clear path for a finding of law.

This is why I give you guys money. [grin]

Follow-up question: How can us outsiders help influence a positive outcome, besides just opening our wallets? Is activism of some sort appropriate? Showing up to show support in some way? What can we do?
 

terraformer

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This is why I give you guys money. [grin]

Follow-up question: How can us outsiders help influence a positive outcome, besides just opening our wallets? Is activism of some sort appropriate? Showing up to show support in some way? What can we do?

What you can do:
opening our wallets? Yes, I hate to sound crass but this is important to do. It enables the lawyers (the tip of the sphere) to do their thing.
Is activism of some sort appropriate? Yes, at the legislature, in news op eds, write your local news editors, get out there and spread the 2A word. These are important things as judges of all levels read the paper. Get the news to address our issues fairly. Call out the newspapers for getting the stories wrong. I can't stress enough that Comm2A was conceived of and designed to be a one trick pony so support GOAL as well.
Showing up to show support in some way? Do not show up in court. They don't care and you will be thrown out if you make yourself seen/heard. The courts don't work like the legislature. They are not voted in. They don't care about numbers.
What else can we do? Spread the word about us, especially to lawyers who do criminal defense. Too many are showing up in appeals with no game. Those cases will screw you all if they are improperly briefed. See McGowan. Even if we can't pay an attorney's way, we help them get their clients off by pointing out case law and providing valuable research. I have personally given lawyers precedent that ended up in criminal §131L charges being dropped for two different people. And that's before the lawyers we work with get involved to give actual legal advice for in court shenanigans and better briefing.
 
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This is why I give you guys money. [grin]

Follow-up question: How can us outsiders help influence a positive outcome, besides just opening our wallets? Is activism of some sort appropriate? Showing up to show support in some way? What can we do?
There are a few things we need to do and things with which we could use help. We haven't had time to do is outreach and haven't figure out how to 'crowd source' and effectively use volunteers. Two areas where folks from NES can help us are with outreach and referrals.

We need to get our message out far beyond NES. We need to have visibility with instructors, sportsmen's clubs, and shooters who don't visit here. If there's an event where you think we should be represented or if your club ever has speakers let us know, we'd like to participate. There are a number of relevant topics from the status of 2A litigation to trends in MA firearms law that we can discuss. We also now have cards and brochures available that can be posted in club houses or on the counters at your favorite FFL. Just ask - [email protected].

We also need to know about problems. If you know someone whose been denied a license, had a license revoked or suspended, or a firearm seized - have them contact us. We'll have a special email address active for this next week.

Data is really important. If you're an instructor, or know people who have recently* received a new or renewal license, have them complete our survey. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Comm2ALic The data we collect here is invaluable.

*we're only interested in recent licensing experiences. Data for licenses received before 2012 doesn't help us and gets deleted.
 
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Dench

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Where can I buy some Comm2A swag? Hoodies? stickers? t shirts?

I don't think you guys have that, any plans on making some?
 
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the SJC took the case sua sponte rather than waiting for it to progress naturally through the lower courts. Ostensible they do this when they recognize that an important issue of law will create confusion and inconsistent results in the lower courts. A less charitable view of this practice is that the SJC is interested in creating specific outcomes and pro-actively tailoring case law to their liking...

OK, I had to look this one up (no, it isn't Italian ice cream!). Here is what I found:
One situation in which a party might encourage a judge to move sua sponte occurs when that party is preserving a special appearance (usually to challenge jurisdiction), and therefore cannot make motions on its own behalf without making a general appearance. Common reasons for an action taken sua sponte are when the judge determines that the court does not have subject-matter jurisdiction or that the case should be moved to another judge because of a conflict of interest, even if all parties disagree.



What you can do:
... write your local news editors, get out there and spread the 2A word. ...
What else can we do? Spread the word about us, ...


I just sent the press release and info to our club newsletter person, asking it to go under the heading "2nd Amendment News". This will get it to >500 club members if they do it.



There are a few things we need to do and things with which we could use help. We haven't had time to do is outreach and haven't figure out how to 'crowd source' and effectively use volunteers. Two areas where folks from NES can help us are with outreach and referrals.

We need to get our message out far beyond NES. We need to have visibility with instructors, sportsmen's clubs, and shooters who don't visit here. If there's an event where you think we should be represented or if your club ever has speakers let us know, we'd like to participate. There are a number of relevant topics from the status of 2A litigation to trends in MA firearms law that we can discuss. We also now have cards and brochures available that can be posted in club houses or on the counters at your favorite FFL. Just ask - [email protected].

We also need to know about problems. If you know someone whose been denied a license, had a license revoked or suspended, or a firearm seized - have them contact us. We'll have a special email address active for this next week.

Data is really important. If you're an instructor, or know people who have recently* received a new or renewal license, have them complete our survey. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Comm2ALic The data we collect here is invaluable.

*we're only interested in recent licensing experiences. Data for licenses received before 2012 doesn't help us and gets deleted.

Good stuff. See answer above. Where can I get these brochures, to leave at the club? Thank you.
 
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So, just a little reminder... and remember, we now offer secure credit card processing which is considerably less expensive to the organization than is PayPal.

We don't yet have recurring payments on the non-PayPal system yet, but we will (I'll be at the Lee show Sat so probably won't have time this weekend to do it).

When a cheaper (to Comm2A) recurring option is available, let us know, eh? I have a small recurring contribution now via PayPal.
 

terraformer

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OK, I had to look this one up (no, it isn't Italian ice cream!). Here is what I found:

One situation in which a party might encourage a judge to move sua sponte occurs when that party is preserving a special appearance (usually to challenge jurisdiction), and therefore cannot make motions on its own behalf without making a general appearance. Common reasons for an action taken sua sponte are when the judge determines that the court does not have subject-matter jurisdiction or that the case should be moved to another judge because of a conflict of interest, even if all parties disagree.

This assumes one of the parties wanted it to be taken that way. But in reality, the SJC uses sua sponte pickups of cases to bypass the appeals courts which are 70% R appointees, in sharp contrast to the SJC which is 70% D appointees.
 

terraformer

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Where can I buy some Comm2A swag? Hoodies? stickers? t shirts?

I don't think you guys have that, any plans on making some?

We will eventually. We have a plan on "branding" and we just printed tri-folds, we have general business cards as well as magnets (stop by our booth at Lee this weekend and pick one up for a small $5 donation), and we will eventually be filling out the stocks with more cool stuff. We are in this for the long haul.

i take back every thing bad i've ever said about you.

Awww... You two are so cute together. [devil2][laugh]
 

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I finished reading the Comm2A Amicus Brief on this case. It is an absolutely brilliant piece of work!

According to Keith Langer, he says it was Tom (terraformer) who wrote this brief. Pretty damn good for a non-lawyer! [wink] [There are nay-sayers on NES who claim that only lawyers can know something about laws and that the rest of us who study it and try to understand the nuances have no idea what we are talking about since we lack a JD after our name. Reading this Brief really buries that idea!]

I suggest that all of you read it. What is laid out here is a perfect Hobson's Choice for the court to deal with!!

- Accept the ideas in the Brief (on face value) and people will literally be able to leave loaded guns in their homes as long as they lock their doors upon leaving!
- Reject the ideas in the Brief and women are all in violation of MGLs if they carry a gun in a purse!

It will be very interesting to see how the SJC twists their way out of this case!

Again, brilliant work Tom and the entire crew at Comm2A. I'm proud to know you guys!
 

Rob Boudrie

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- Accept the ideas in the Brief (on face value) and people will literally be able to leave loaded guns in their homes as long as they lock their doors upon leaving!
- Reject the ideas in the Brief and women are all in violation of MGLs if they carry a gun in a purse!

Part of the art of constructing a decent brief is to lay out a logical framework that makes it difficult for a court that "wants" another outcome to write an intellectually coherent decision that addresses the points layed out in the brief. Tom did well on this one.
 
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