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Now that Darth Reilly has been defeated when does he:
1) Step down as AG
2) Does anybody know when the next AG approval list is suppose to come out (I have my eye on a SW990L) that isn't on his stupid list yet...


Fee
 
The AG does not have a list. EOPS produces the only list.

If Coakley gets in, (most likely) this will all just be a redux of the
same. She is a reilly clone.

So.... VOTE FOR LARRY FRISOLI!

-Mike
 
I thought there were two lists that had to be consulted for a gun to be legal.


Yes, except one doesn't exist!

NO LAW CAN FORCE GOV'T TO DO WHAT IT DOES NOT WANT TO DO!!

That's the problem here.

Check the law . . . every year the AG is supposed to release a list of states we have reciprocity of LTC with or that are reciprocal with MA. Ever seen one? Nope, neither have I. Never will happen with Coakley either. Likely with Frisoli, but he honestly stands as much chance of winning as I do! [See my post in the Frisoli at club thread.]
 
well... I have done my own little campainging for him..

I have emailed everyone I know in MA and asked them to vote for him.

I have told everyone I work with, when I can bring the topic up...

I have told my family and also asked all of these people to pass the word on.

I know it may not be enough... but if we all make that effort... he may have a shot.

I honestly have not seen any Coakley signs.
 
I honestly have not seen any Coakley signs.

You don't need to . . . we all see her on the news every few days!

Free advertising. Most people know her name.

Problem with new candidate against a very public incumbent . . . they need "name recognition exposure".
 
I thought there were two lists that had to be consulted for a gun to be legal.

The EOPS roster is the only legally defined list. But that covers a different
set of regs, and has nothing to do with the smoke/mirrors/snake oil
act that is the Attorney Generals consumer safety regulations.

Basically these regulations are poorly written to the extent that the AG
can wage legal wars against any manufacturer that he thinks is selling guns
here which do not comply with his regulations. There is NO certification
to get them past the AG. That end of a manufacturers effort is a
"best effort" deal based on what some lawyers at the manufactrers
end think they can get away with, and possibly involves feedback from the
AGs office... but I dont think they get any feedback at all, personally. I think
it's really just a black hole. The only way to see if your gun passes
the AGs regs here after it's on the EOPS list, is to attempt to sell it and see if
the AG bitches about it. There is no possibility of "clearing" the gun with
the AG ahead of everything else, because he doesn't respond to inquiries
if at all. My belief is that this behavior is intentional. He wants
manufacturers to get dissuaded and pissed off at trying to sell guns
here.

-Mike
 
Im sure the SW99ol can be sold in MA. because I bought ayear ago brand new.

The regular SW99 is OK for sale, but I have not seen anyone selling an
SW99OL yet, at least not in a public offering. More than likely that
particular dealer sold you the gun because he "believed" that it was
legal, according to what some distributor told him. Most dealers I've
asked about the SW99OL have said "no way, triggers too light". Your
mileage may vary.

From time to time I've seen a few smaller dealers sell a few guns they
werent supposed to, and then all of a suddent magically they stop
doing it, because their distributor or whoever says the guns were not
really "compliant". A lot of times the whole thing is a wash.


-Mike
 
The regular SW99 is OK for sale, but I have not seen anyone selling an
SW99OL yet, at least not in a public offering. More than likely that
particular dealer sold you the gun because he "believed" that it was
legal, according to what some distributor told him. Most dealers I've
asked about the SW99OL have said "no way, triggers too light". Your
mileage may vary.

From time to time I've seen a few smaller dealers sell a few guns they
werent supposed to, and then all of a suddent magically they stop
doing it, because their distributor or whoever says the guns were not
really "compliant". A lot of times the whole thing is a wash.


-Mike

I called the Smith and Wesson store in Springfield, Massachusetts and he was very clear with his displeasure of making a gun in the state and not being able to sell it. He said that the AG hasn't release the new list and thus he can't sell it. He made it sound like he expect it soon. Thus why I asked if anybody knew how soon.

Fee
 
Right, that's by EOPS and the list of tested and approved handguns by the Sec. of Public Safety ONLY. There should be a caveat on the webpage about this as many get confused.
 
. . . every year the AG is supposed to release a list of states we have reciprocity of LTC with or that are reciprocal with MA. Ever seen one? Nope, neither have I. Never will happen with Coakley either. ...

Wrong! That's the one list that's published every year, without fail. The reason you might have missed it, even though it's in 48 point type, is that it's on pieces of confetti. Doesn't take much paper to print out a list of zero states.

Ken
 
He said that the AG hasn't release the new list and thus he can't sell it. He made it sound like he expect it soon. Thus why I asked if anybody knew how soon.

Despite the propensity of those on this board to consistently ignore frequently-repeated facts, THERE IS NO AG LIST. Ergo, there is no "new list" for the AG to release. Grasp the concept. [slap]

The AFR is produced and released by the Gun Control Advisory Board (GCAB); the same entity that will implement the recently-enacted "formal target shooting" exemption, should EOPS ever provide it with criteria to adopt and apply.

A little basic comprehension of the facts would go a long way towards increasing the quality and utility of these discussions. [rolleyes]
 
Despite the propensity of those on this board to consistently ignore frequently-repeated facts, THERE IS NO AG LIST. Ergo, there is no "new list" for the AG to release. Grasp the concept. [slap]

The AFR is produced and released by the Gun Control Advisory Board (GCAB); the same entity that will implement the recently-enacted "formal target shooting" exemption, should EOPS ever provide it with criteria to adopt and apply.

A little basic comprehension of the facts would go a long way towards increasing the quality and utility of these discussions. [rolleyes]

Ok, I understand your point Scrivener. There is no official list for what the AG has approved. It has been stated many times. That being said, I was repeating what the Smith and Wesson told me (I consult for them). Yet there is still some kinda of process to approve new guns/models of guns or am I to believe Massachusetts has not had a new gun model introduced since 1996?

Fee
 
Yet there is still some kinda of process to approve new guns/models of guns or am I to believe Massachusetts has not had a new gun model introduced since 1996?

As should be readily apparent to anyone actually reviewing the AFR, new guns are added periodically. That's why it has an effective date clearly set forth at the top. The latest is from July of this year.
 
Alright, I give up. For the Last time for me. Scrivener (you expert) explain it to me (Idiot) what I misunderstood when I tired to buy a gun last week. I wanted to purchase a Smith and Wesson SW990L Compact. I walked (knuckles dragging) into the Smith and Wesson Store, I asked for it they said no, it isn't approved by the AG. I already saw that it was on the AFR which I had in my hand and referred to it at the store. They stated to me they are waiting for the AG to "get off his ass and approve it".
So either 1) Smith and Wesson is wrong and they should have sold me the gun 2) I was wrong to assume the AFR /EOPS means anything 3)Nobody wants to sell me what I want.

Fee
 
AG will NEVER approve it. More likely they are waiting for the S&W lawyers to analyze their info to make some sort of blood assurance that it meets the AG Regs and that S&W won't get gigged for selling the product to the unwashed masses. Another possibility is that S&W knows that it must do a Mod of the design to meet the AG's Regs and they are waiting on that first.
 
I walked (knuckles dragging) into the Smith and Wesson Store, I asked for it they said no, it isn't approved by the AG. I already saw that it was on the AFR which I had in my hand and referred to it at the store. They stated to me they are waiting for the AG to "get off his ass and approve it".
So either 1) Smith and Wesson is wrong and they should have sold me the gun 2) I was wrong to assume the AFR /EOPS means anything 3)Nobody wants to sell me what I want.

The AFR is freezing both Firefox and Netscape when I go to open it, so I will assume that the gun you want - and that means the EXACT model - is, in fact, on the AFR.

That done, given that S&W already has many models certified and knows the drill cold, it is safe to assume that the gun in question also has the second, "secret" serial number, etc.

Therefore;

1. S&W has failed to so certify its compliance to the AG's office (not likely);

2. S&W is actually waiting for the AG - then in the middle of an election - to issue an approval S&W should know is not likely to be forthcoming;

3. The clerk had none in stock and would rather blame the AG than his own employer, knowing you would believe it; or

4. The clerk doesn't have a clue why the gun is not available and made a guess intended to satisfy you.

I'd bet on # 3 or #4, in that order.

But if you want to believe in the mythical "AG's list of approved guns," feel free to.
 
Read this BS:

View attachment 307

Why is there not more effort to remove this "law" at the legislative level and take the power out of the hands of the AG? I found no other examples of Consumer "Protection" enforcement with similar or even substantially equivalent requirements for any other product. It is BS pure and simple, and a liberal anti tactic to circumvent existing laws including the Second Amendment.


Chris
 
Last edited:
Read this BS:

View attachment 307

Why is there not more effort to remove this "law" at the legislative level and take the power out of the hands of the AG? I found no other examples of Consumer "Protection" enforcement with similar or even substantially equivalent requirements for any other product. It is BS pure and simple, and a liberal anti tactic to circumvent existing laws including the Second Amendment.

Chris

There was a GOAL sponsored bill filed that would have limited the AGs abuse
of the consumer safety regs. My guess is that it will never be released out of committee or taken up for a vote.
 
So either 1) Smith and Wesson is wrong and they should have sold me the gun 2) I was wrong to assume the AFR /EOPS means anything 3)Nobody wants to sell me what I want.
FeeBear:

All you have to do is to ACTUALLY READ the EOPS approved firearms roster. On the first page of the roster, indented, in BOLD ALL CAPS, it reads:
TRANSFERS OF HANDGUNS ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S HANDGUN SALES REGULATIONS; 940 C.M.R. 16.00 ET SEQ. FIREARMS ON THIS ROSTER DO NOT NECESSARILY COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S HANDGUN SALES REGULATIONS. INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE REGULATIONS CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND CAN BE ACCESSED ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S WEBSITE; WWW.AGO.STATE.MA.US.

That clearly states that a handgun being on EOPS roster is necessary BUT NOT SUFFICIENT for it to be sold new in MA. It must meet the attorney generals requirements. The AG does not issue a list.

A quick search of the AG's web site brings up this link: http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=1170

This clearly indicates that the AG's regulations are stricter than those of EOPS. In particular, note the text that reads
The Attorney General's handgun sales regulations include three product requirements that are not shared by the Chapter 140 handgun product requirements, and that are not tested for the Approved Firearms Roster:

* child-safety features
940 CMR 16.05(2), (4)
* load indicators and magazine safety disconnects for semi-automatic handguns
940 CMR 16.05(3), (4)
* tamper-resistant serial numbers
940 CMR 16.03
So guns that are on the EOPS roster may not meet the AGs regulations.

A quick google search brings up the AG's regulations here: http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=1579

Now, read the AG's regulations, specifically Section 16.05 which reads:
16.05: Sale of Handguns Without Childproofing or Safety Devices

(1) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice to sell a handgun without a safety device in violation of M.G.L. c. 140, § 131K.

(2) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a mechanism which effectively precludes an average five year old child from operating the handgun when it is ready to fire; such mechanisms shall include, but are not limited to: raising trigger resistance to at least a ten pound pull, altering the firing mechanism so that an average five year old child's hands are too small to operate the handgun, or requiring a series of multiple motions in order to fire the handgun.

(3) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a load indicator or magazine safety disconnect.

(4) 940 CMR 16.05(2) shall not apply to handguns which have a hammer deactivation device. 940 CMR 16.05(3) applies only to handguns that have a mechanism to load cartridges via a magazine.
So, does the S&W 990L meet paragraph 2? It doesn't have a manual safety, so is the double-action trigger pull greater than 10 lbs? If it is, then it would seem to me that it might meet the AGs regulations. If it is less than 10 lbs, then I don't see how it could meet the AGs regulations.
 
Why is there not more effort to remove this "law" at the legislative level and take the power out of the hands of the AG?
Because we don't have the votes. The state legislature is overwhelmingly Democratric and overwhelmingly in favor of gun control. Not a one of them would come out against regulations that purport to be aimed at "child-proofing" handguns. After all "it's for the children..."

Politically it would be suicide for them to go against the AGs regulations.
 
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