combination lock maintenance

[Rob Boudrie]

think perhaps, we are wrongly assuming that we are trying to tell each other what the other guys safe is or is not doing.

There are two different beasts in this zoo. One is the fairly standard lock mechanism; the other the the Sentry POS unit. The former has resistance only when there is bolt side pressure during retraction; the later has it throughout the dialing if the opening wheel/level is tensioned. Both experiences described are consistent with the design differences.

Sentry uses a linkage uses a proprietary design rather than the bolt. Sentry went to a lot of effort here to keep the manufacturing cost down.

Am I correct in my understanding you leave the dial on the last number when opening rather than turning to the right until the dial retracts the bolt and stops?

The locking bolt on the Sentry push directly into the gates rather than having a fence drop into the gates allowing a cam to engage. You can't even replace this with an industry standard lock:

https://neurophysics.ucsd.edu/Manuals/Sentry/Sentry Lock.pdf

The F&S looks like it uses a standard S&G style draw bolt. At the price of a service call, you can probably buy a new lock if you are up to the install. If you get a pull-off from a new safe where the seller has switched to electronic (I refuse to consider this an "upgrade", so I am not using that term) be sure to get a new spline key. S&G SPLINE KEY - 6600, 6700, 8500. Do not try to re-use the old one unless you don't mind failures and lockouts.

 

[CDP235]

I think I started this when I said,

I have found with my safe, that if I don't have the lever pushed all the way, the knob will drag and feel like it's sticking. It's not a very expensive safe, so that may be the problem.

The F&S will at least feel rough/gritty, sometimes lock up tight, again, if the bolt throw device is not neutral.

My safe is an F&S also, and this is what I was talking about.

 

[FalArAk]

My dial started sticking and the bolts that lock the safe were hard to disengage once it put the combo in.. I lubed everything with a Teflon based spray lube and everything runs like new again... I can't believe I waited so long to do this because it was sticky for a few years lol

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you can take off the panel inside the safe door and post a photo of the F&S lock and linkage it will tell all (well, most) regarding your lock configuration.

My dial started sticking.. I lubed it withTeflon based spray lube and everything runs like new again... I can't believe I waited so long to do this because it was sticky for a few years lol

Did you lube the dial or open up the lock case and lube inside?

My safe is 20+ years old and the S&G mechanical lock feels as smooth as the day it was new.

 

[greencobra]

My safe is 20+ years old and the S&G mechanical lock feels as smooth as the day it was new.

my s&g crapped out going on 24 years. the safe guy pretty much called it, he said the wheels/dials inside the mechanism were worn because i was spinning the dial quickly rather than just gently moving the dial. i was, too impatient to spin that dial the proper way.

 

[looser38]

There are two different beasts in this zoo. One is the fairly standard lock mechanism; the other the the Sentry POS unit. The former has resistance only when there is bolt side pressure during retraction; the later has it throughout the dialing if the opening wheel/level is tensioned. Both experiences described are consistent with the design differences.

Sentry uses a linkage uses a proprietary design rather than the bolt. Sentry went to a lot of effort here to keep the manufacturing cost down.

Am I correct in my understanding you leave the dial on the last number when opening rather than turning to the right until the dial retracts the bolt and stops?

The locking bolt on the Sentry push directly into the gates rather than having a fence drop into the gates allowing a cam to engage. You can't even replace this with an industry standard lock:

https://neurophysics.ucsd.edu/Manuals/Sentry/Sentry Lock.pdf

The F&S looks like it uses a standard S&G style draw bolt. At the price of a service call, you can probably buy a new lock if you are up to the install. If you get a pull-off from a new safe where the seller has switched to electronic (I refuse to consider this an "upgrade", so I am not using that term) be sure to get a new spline key. S&G SPLINE KEY - 6600, 6700, 8500. Do not try to re-use the old one unless you don't mind failures and lockouts.

Am I correct in my understanding you leave the dial on the last number when opening rather than turning to the right until the dial retracts the bolt and stops?

Edit: looser38's response;
To answer this question, yes, I dial in the last number, then just throw the handle to retract the bolts.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[looser38]

my s&g crapped out going on 24 years. the safe guy pretty much called it, he said the wheels/dials inside the mechanism were worn because i was spinning the dial quickly rather than just gently moving the dial. i was, too impatient to spin that dial the proper way.

Bummer!
I should knock on wood, because I've never really had any trouble, yet!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

To answer this question, yes, I dial in the last number, then just throw the handle to retract the bolts.
Hope this makes sense.

It does, and confirms it is the POS Sentry mechanism rather than an industry standard S&G style.

Something I should have mentioned earlier - In addition to the lock, lube the linkage at any friction points. Take the inside panel off the door and see if there are any places where lube makes sense (I use Mobil 1 synthetic grease). Also check for any loose screws or bolts.

As to lube vs. replace - a 3 wheel group II S&G (the good one with the brass wheels, not the zymac/zinc crap) is only $73 3-Wheel Lock Body Only, Grp 2 plus less than $2 for a new spline key (assuming you are re-using the original dial which also saves you the trouble of cutting the spindle to length). I doubt you can get a safe tech out to service your lock for less than that.

 

[looser38]

If I ever have any trouble with any of my safes, I will definitely heed your suggestions.
Until then, I'm sort of a, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kind of guy.
Thanks for the tech tips though, much appreciated!

 

[FalArAk]

If you can take off the panel inside the safe door and post a photo of the F&S lock and linkage it will tell all (well, most) regarding your lock configuration.

Did you lube the dial or open up the lock case and lube inside?

My safe is 20+ years old and the S&G mechanical lock feels as smooth as the day it was new.

Maybe it's the brand I have uses cheaper internals, its a Stack On. I unscrewed the fireboard to expose all the internals and spayed everything down. I was actually getting worried that one day it just wasn't going to open.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If I ever have any trouble with any of my safes, I will definitely heed your suggestions.
Until then, I'm sort of a, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kind of guy.
Thanks for the tech tips though, much appreciated!

Still worth taking a look at the linkage for loose connections and lubing the obvious points.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

Spay it with a little WD40. If WD40 can't help then there was nothing wrong with it.

 

[Another_David]

As others stated, a dry lubricant that typically has Teflon is what you want to use for modern locks that are otherwise in good working order.

 

[JNewell]

If you can take off the panel inside the safe door and post a photo of the F&S lock and linkage it will tell all (well, most) regarding your lock configuration.

Did you lube the dial or open up the lock case and lube inside?

My safe is 20+ years old and the S&G mechanical lock feels as smooth as the day it was new.

I have a Browning (Pro Steel) safe that I bought in 1985. It's had no maintenance and is still smooth as glass.

 

[JNewell]

It does, and confirms it is the POS Sentry mechanism rather than an industry standard S&G style.

Something I should have mentioned earlier - In addition to the lock, lube the linkage at any friction points. Take the inside panel off the door and see if there are any places where lube makes sense (I use Mobil 1 synthetic grease). Also check for any loose screws or bolts.

As to lube vs. replace - a 3 wheel group II S&G (the good one with the brass wheels, not the zymac/zinc crap) is only $73 3-Wheel Lock Body Only, Grp 2 plus less than $2 for a new spline key (assuming you are re-using the original dial which also saves you the trouble of cutting the spindle to length). I doubt you can get a safe tech out to service your lock for less than that.

I may be confused - will this fit one of the Sentry safes?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I may be confused - will this fit one of the Sentry safes?

No - hence my earlier comment of "It does, and confirms it is the POS Sentry mechanism rather than an industry standard S&G style. " My comment about replace vs service call was a general one, though I didn't exactly do a good job of making that clear.

As others stated, a dry lubricant that typically has Teflon is what you want to use for modern locks that are otherwise in good working order.

S&G recommends Aeroshell 22, not graphite, for it's mechanical dial combination locks. I use graphite for conventional pin tumbler locks.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Yegg?

Second cousin to Yeet. ROFL!!!

 

[Drix]

I found a video on youtube that suggested graphite powder, basically just flood everything that moves inside the lock.

Is graphite really the right answer? Just throw more in?

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43-4B.pdf search cathodic.

Its a long article, with a lot of good info on corrosion, but in general it does add "Do not use graphite as a lubricant for any component. Graphite is cathodic to all structural metals and will generate galvanic corrosion in the presence of moisture, especially if applied in dry form."