Collapsable baton

[Junior314]

They have LEOSA nationwide carry and powers of arrest. Do you

 

[whatluck]

I hope so. I have like 6 of them floating around my house and vehicle. Honestly I’d rather have a 4 D cell mag light. More useful, better as an actual club and no legal questions

A roll of aluminum foil does it nicely. If you get really good with the motion you can do it with a rolled up magazine. You either use it to knuckle-rap someone holding a knife or stick, or put green or yellow zone hits.

 

[42!]

Imagine Charles Bronson going into a bank today and asking for $20 in quarters. Clerk says "I am sorry sir. There is a nationwide coin shortage. You can only have 12 quarters."

Bronson says "WTF am I gonna do with 12 quarters?! Who do you think I am, John Wick?!"

John Wick doesn't use quarters, he uses a pencil... a f@#$ing pencil.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Since Police officers are civilians, as they are not part of a Military Branch covered by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, nor are they Uniformed Members of the Military of another nation, nor are they irregular non-state actors, and they can carry batons, why is this even a question?

Police officers can have collapsible batons, so can general people, so long as you are not committing a crime with it.

Because, despite your definition, Merriam-Webster thinks otherwise and that is a definition likely to be accepted in a MA court unless, of course, you appear as an expert witness and your linguistic credentials and expertise sway the court.

You are, of course, free to argue that the dictionary is non-authorative and inaccurate.


From m-w.com:

ci·vil·ian | \ sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən \
Definition of civilian
(Entry 1 of 2)
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
b: OUTSIDER sense 1

 

[308rifleman]

Cops have powers of arrest nationwide?? That’s a new one.

You would be surprised. A former co-worker ended up as a railroad police officer with CSX, a privately-owned railroad company. She has full arrest powers in every state CSX operates in (about 30!), including. MA, NY and NJ.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You would be surprised. A former co-worker ended up as a railroad police officer with CSX, a privately-owned railroad company. She has full arrest powers in every state CSX operates in (about 30!), including. MA, NY and NJ.

A retired CSX officer I know still carries a card in his wallet that dates from the 60s - it's a RI License to Act as a Police Officer.

 

[Darksideblues42]

They have LEOSA nationwide carry and powers of arrest. Do you

Answer one question. Which segment of law do they derive their authority from, Civil Law or Martial Law?

 

[Talon3]

You would be surprised. A former co-worker ended up as a railroad police officer with CSX, a privately-owned railroad company. She has full arrest powers in every state CSX operates in (about 30!), including. MA, NY and NJ.

Railroad cops are in a seperate category. They have a federal enforcement authority, under the FRA federal railroad administration. As long as the company has tracks property equipment within a certain radius they have jurisdiction. Similar to how college cops and national park service has a jurisdiction limit that exceeds the actual property line..

 

[alan226]

They have LEOSA nationwide carry and powers of arrest. Do you

LEOSA has nothing to do with "post 86 machine guns as well as short barrelled shotguns, rifles".

You are so full of shit I don't even know where to begin

 

[cams]

You would be surprised. A former co-worker ended up as a railroad police officer with CSX, a privately-owned railroad company. She has full arrest powers in every state CSX operates in (about 30!), including. MA, NY and NJ.

CSX and/or Amtrak PD has those powers only because they are typically riding trains that cross state lines daily. Think Air Marshall but on a train. They have zero authority outside of the actual property boundaries.

Local example everyone will understand using Amtrak PD, you’re at say South Station, Amtrak PD is always walking around in there and even has a desk in the open, yet they have zero authority inside the station, only on the trains or actual train platforms, for anything else they need to call Transit PD or Boston to have them make an arrest if they think it’s warranted. Most times it’s something that just gets broomed due to lack of importance.

I think it’s Amtrak that has it’s dispatch office literally in PA, so they’re being sent on runs across state lines and or answering calls for service from a dispatcher hundreds of miles away.

Regardless, as someone said, pepper spray is better than a baton, or even just walk into HD or Lowes and pick up a couple long heavy wrenches, throw on some grip tape and get to work, still better than a baton.

 

[308rifleman]

Railroad cops are in a seperate category. They have a federal enforcement authority, under the FRA federal railroad administration. As long as the company has tracks property equipment within a certain radius they have jurisdiction. Similar to how college cops and national park service has a jurisdiction limit that exceeds the actual property line..

Alabama Conservation Officers are fully cross-trained and sworn DHS special agents. Post 9/11 and the war on terror has expanded LE powers considerably.

 

[308rifleman]

CSX and/or Amtrak PD has those powers only because they are typically riding trains that cross state lines daily. Think Air Marshall but on a train. They have zero authority outside of the actual property boundaries.

Local example everyone will understand using Amtrak PD, you’re at say South Station, Amtrak PD is always walking around in there and even has a desk in the open, yet they have zero authority inside the station, only on the trains or actual train platforms, for anything else they need to call Transit PD or Boston to have them make an arrest if they think it’s warranted. Most times it’s something that just gets broomed due to lack of importance.

I think it’s Amtrak that has it’s dispatch office literally in PA, so they’re being sent on runs across state lines and or answering calls for service from a dispatcher hundreds of miles away.

Regardless, as someone said, pepper spray is better than a baton, or even just walk into HD or Lowes and pick up a couple long heavy wrenches, throw on some grip tape and get to work, still better than a baton.

Pick handle is very effective as well.

 

[moojpg2]

another good one is an ice axe for climbing/mountaineering. I could seriously f*** someone up with mine.

 

[tuna]

I’ve always like C Cell flashlight better. Less impact area for a harder hit.

Crescent wrench is good too.

 

[JRT]

M.G.L Ch.239 Sec. 10(b) is the one that comes to mind.

It’s okay to have the baton but not when committing a crime. Big question is “provided by law”.

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.

Reading this whole list of prohibited items I'm convinced somebody had a real fear of f***ing ninjas!

 

[In God We Trust]

Reading this whole list of prohibited items I'm convinced somebody had a real fear of f***ing ninjas!

That law was probably written in the 80’s when ninja movies were all the rage. Some suit was in the theater with a notepad furiously mastubating with one hand and banning scary things with the other.

 

[AHM]

If you get really good with the motion you can do it with a rolled up magazine.

Spoiler: Artist's conception

RI License to Act as a Police Officer.

Reading this whole list of prohibited items I'm convinced somebody had a real fear of f***ing ninjas!

Spoiler: Be sure to wave if you see me on the highway

 

[MaverickNH]

Classic Walking Canes

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A hickory cane is an excellent impact weapon. You can carry it anywhere - even on an airplane.

 

[308rifleman]

LEOSA has nothing to do with "post 86 machine guns as well as short barrelled shotguns, rifles".

You are so full of shit I don't even know where to begin

Police officers are allowed to possess short barrelled shotguns and post 86 machine guns. Many Massachusetts police departments received M14 and M16A1 automatic rifles from the army's Anniston Depot back in the late 1990s. Springfield MA PD received two M79 grenade launchers, which are also prohibited for us civilians. Salem State College received several M16A1s as well for their campus police. This happened all over the country and a lot of folks outside of LE circles weren't happy about it. If you think you have the same powers as a sworn LEO and can possess/ carry what they can, by all means have at it. Get your affairs in order because unregistered post 86 MGs are a federal as well as a state offense here in MA and short barrelled shotguns are LEO only here in MA. Possession = prison, both state and federal. Hope you have a good defense attorney on retainer!

 

[alan226]

Again, you are spouting BS,

Police DEPARTMENTS are allowed to posses to possess short barreled shotguns and post 86 machine guns, not the individual officers outside of work. The weapons are not the ownership or property of officer. The weapons are and continue to be the property and ownership of the Federal, State or local department. Even if the off chance the officer is a member of a SWAT type team and abd has a take home vehicle and equipment, they don't own the equipment. If you are equating an officer riding around in a patrol car with an M14 as "possession", then you are being disingenuous at best.

And correct me if I am wrong, but a civilian can own a short barrel shotgun, but it is subject to the NFA and requires a $200 tax stamp. Tons for sale on Gunbroker.

More evidence of your bullshittery...

My 22 year old daughter went to Las Vegas to Home - Machine Guns Vegas and shot a half a dozen post 86 full auto machine guns. By your ludicrous definition, she was in possession of post 86 MG's and should have been arrested. Really?

 

[assaultknifle]

You can, just don't commit a crime with it on you. Commit the crime when the baton is in a safe with a trigger lock.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My 22 year old daughter went to Las Vegas to Home - Machine Guns Vegas and shot a half a dozen post 86 full auto machine guns. By your ludicrous definition, she was in possession of post 86 MG's and should have been arrested. Really?

This definition of possession seems to be applied only in regards to federally prohibited people. Even the temporary holding of a gun for a photo or range use by a PP can, and has, been prosecuted as a felon in possession.

 

[alan226]

This definition of possession seems to be applied only in regards to federally prohibited people. Even the temporary holding of a gun for a photo or range use by a PP can, and has, been prosecuted as a felon in possession.

Rob, 308rifleman is so full of shit I don't even know why I even engage him. He seems to be equating possession and ownership which is ridiculous.

 

[308rifleman]

Rob, 308rifleman is so full of shit I don't even know why I even engage him. He seems to be equating possession and ownership which is ridiculous.

Alan226, prisons and jails are full of numbskull know-it-all's like you. If short-barrelled shotguns and rifles are legal for civilians to possess in MA, then why aren't any FFLs in this state selling them? They are legal for LE and military only; felony for civilians like you. Put it to the test. Obtain one and take it out in public. Let us know which Trial Court of the Commonwealth you get crucified in!

 

[308rifleman]

This definition of possession seems to be applied only in regards to federally prohibited people. Even the temporary holding of a gun for a photo or range use by a PP can, and has, been prosecuted as a felon in possession.

Those Las Vegas ranges are a joke. A range safety officer hovers over the shooter and breathes down his or her neck. Nevada law allows the private ownership of short-barrelled rifles and shotguns, along with unlicensed open carry of firearms and edged weapons. You can legally walk around with a .44 magnum revolver on one hip, a 10" Bowie on the other hip and a katana strapped across your back. Perfectly legal. Try that here in MA and we know what the results will be. If alan226 thinks otherwise, he can try it for himself and enjoy the full experience of the criminal justice system. District attorneys here will prosecute his sorry ass to the fullest extent of the law!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Alan226, prisons and jails are full of numbskull know-it-all's like you. If short-barrelled shotguns and rifles are legal for civilians to possess in MA, then why aren't any FFLs in this state selling them? They are legal for LE and military only; felony for civilians like you. Put it to the test. Obtain one and take it out in public. Let us know which Trial Court of the Commonwealth you get crucified in!

Please cite a single case of a individual who is in a MA jail or prison for possession of a SBR while concurrently having a federal tax stamp for said weapon as well as a valid LTC. Just one; I don't need a whole prison fill. Just cite the case and you will have proven your point. Please note that "I know this to be true", "A cop told me" and the ever classic "I'd like to see you be the test case" are content-free arguments that offer no actual evidence as to the veracity of your claim, so please don't waste everyone's time with them.

They are NFA+SOT dealers in MA who are selling them.

You have to order them (they are not generally kept in stock), and there have to be no impediment to sale. Most dealers in MA are not licensed to sell NFA weapons (paying the special occupational tax).

Major impediments are the Healy ban on anything AR based (right or wrong, dealers treat the ban as if it is law), and the fact that short barrel shotguns (for example, the Serbu Super Shorty) are considered "firearms" under MA law. As such, they need to be on the "approved firearms roster" ... and no, Mark Serbu was definitely not interested paying a lab to drop 5 of his shorty's onto concrete to certify they are drop safe.

"Sawed off" shotguns are banned in MA. For a short shotgun to be legal, it must have been born that way, in which case it is federally an AOW (any other weapon). Serbu Super Shortys are indeed born that way - they are not purchased as full shotguns by Serbu and then shortened.

The most likely outcome of someone carrying an SBR openly in MA is not criminal prosecution, but revocation of the LTC with an almost certain upholding of said revocation by the court (Simkin v. FRB not withstanding)

There are MANY people in this state who have federally registered SBRs and LTCs, and I have never heard of one getting jammed up by the state.

 

[308rifleman]

Again, you are spouting BS,

Police DEPARTMENTS are allowed to posses to possess short barreled shotguns and post 86 machine guns, not the individual officers outside of work. The weapons are not the ownership or property of officer. The weapons are and continue to be the property and ownership of the Federal, State or local department. Even if the off chance the officer is a member of a SWAT type team and abd has a take home vehicle and equipment, they don't own the equipment. If you are equating an officer riding around in a patrol car with an M14 as "possession", then you are being disingenuous at best.

And correct me if I am wrong, but a civilian can own a short barrel shotgun, but it is subject to the NFA and requires a $200 tax stamp. Tons for sale on Gunbroker.

More evidence of your bullshittery...

My 22 year old daughter went to Las Vegas to Home - Machine Guns Vegas and shot a half a dozen post 86 full auto machine guns. By your ludicrous definition, she was in possession of post 86 MG's and should have been arrested. Really?

Those were pre-86 MGs or sear guns constructed with pre-86 registered auto sears. Unless she is a Law Vegas Metro cop or Nevada National Guard soldier, she will not be handli g, much less firing, a true post-86 MG. I saw some of their weapons: MP40s, BARs, M3 grease guns, M2 carbines, M10A1s, etc. Mostly WWII, Korea and Vietnam-era weapons. Definitely pre-86.

 

[308rifleman]

Please cite a single case of a individual who is in a MA jail or prison for possession of a SBR while concurrently having a federal tax stamp for said weapon as well as a valid LTC. Just one; I don't need a whole prison fill. Just cite the case and you will have proven your point. Please note that "I know this to be true", "A cop told me" and the ever classic "I'd like to see you be the test case" are content-free arguments that offer no actual evidence as to the veracity of your claim, so please don't waste everyone's time with them.

They are NFA+SOT dealers in MA who are selling them.

You have to order them (they are not generally kept in stock), and there have to be no impediment to sale. Most dealers in MA are not licensed to sell NFA weapons (paying the special occupational tax).

Major impediments are the Healy ban on anything AR based (right or wrong, dealers treat the ban as if it is law), and the fact that short barrel shotguns (for example, the Serbu Super Shorty) are considered "firearms" under MA law. As such, they need to be on the "approved firearms roster" ... and no, Mark Serbu was definitely not interested paying a lab to drop 5 of his shorty's onto concrete to certify they are drop safe.

"Sawed off" shotguns are banned in MA. For a short shotgun to be legal, it must have been born that way, in which case it is federally an AOW (any other weapon). Serbu Super Shortys are indeed born that way - they are not purchased as full shotguns by Serbu and then shortened.

The most likely outcome of someone carrying an SBR openly in MA is not criminal prosecution, but revocation of the LTC with an almost certain upholding of said revocation by the court (Simkin v. FRB not withstanding)

There are MANY people in this state who have federally registered SBRs and LTCs, and I have never heard of one getting jammed up by the state.

I am sure there are plenty of people in his state with "post ban" hi cap mags as well. Matter of who gets caught.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I am sure there are plenty of people in his state with "post ban" hi cap mags as well. Matter of who gets caught.

What are you taking about?

NFA items are registered federally. Part of filing a Form 1 is to inform your chief that you're building an SBR. There are folks in this forum who talk openly about manufacturing lawful SBRs in MA. This would be the easiest bust in the history of easy busts, yet they're all walking around free.

 

[appraiser]

Gentlemen, we are way off topic here.

The topic is collapsible batons, with a wandering into the legality of them, use of them, and alternatives.

Let's stay on point.

and lets be civil to each other, we are allies, we need to stick together and be respectful of each other even when we disagree.