Club membership is not required for valid license, right?

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Today at the range a range officer said something that I hadn't thought about. I have been telling people that you need to be a member of a club in order to have a valid license, but I think I am wrong about that. I think you only need to be a member of a club in order to GET a valid license (in Boston); after you have a license you can let your membership lapse if you want to and not be in violation of the law. Right?

I don't see any great value in not having membership at a club, but it'd be nice to know that I could save the money on that if I had to.
 
Jeremiah said:
I have been telling people that you need to be a member of a club in order to have a valid license, but I think I am wrong about that.

You ARE wrong about it. There is no such requirement in the law and there is case law striking down Randolph's attempt to impose such a requirement.
 
Jeremiah said:
Today at the range a range officer said something that I hadn't thought about. I have been telling people that you need to be a member of a club in order to have a valid license, but I think I am wrong about that. I think you only need to be a member of a club in order to GET a valid license (in Boston); after you have a license you can let your membership lapse if you want to and not be in violation of the law. Right?

I don't see any great value in not having membership at a club, but it'd be nice to know that I could save the money on that if I had to.

The Boston guys are real shits. They have had that requirement for years as
the only reason they will give you a Class A is if you belong to a club (and
now pass their stupid shooting test). They figure since they are not giving you a
ALP license then the only reason you need a license is if you are going to
shoot at a range, hence the club membership requirement. The answer to your
question about whether or not you need to remain a member for renewal
is no, unless they foist that BS on you as well at that time. I see you are from Dot.
The Boston Gun Club is a good place to shoot. Been there, done
that, and enjoyed the shooting there. A lot of nice folks around there.

TBP
 
"There is no such requirement in the law and there is case law striking down Randolph's attempt to impose such a requirement."

Curioser and curioser. So, an applicant could tell the BPD to go take a flying leap if they asked for proof of membership?

Is this is the kind of thing where the BPD gives an applicant a long list of "requirements", but if the applicant is savvy and/or uses a lawyer they can refuse to provide most of the things on the list and still get licensed?
 
If you didn't have the membership the BPD will tell you to take your application
and put it where the sun don't shine. A more arrogant bunch is hard to find,
not impossible, but hard. If you want to challenge it it will cost you a lot more
than a membership fee.

TBP
 
Jeremiah said:
"There is no such requirement in the law and there is case law striking down Randolph's attempt to impose such a requirement."

Curioser and curioser. So, an applicant could tell the BPD to go take a flying leap if they asked for proof of membership?

Is this is the kind of thing where the BPD gives an applicant a long list of "requirements", but if the applicant is savvy and/or uses a lawyer they can refuse to provide most of the things on the list and still get licensed?

The police chief can deny you without cause, remember.
 
Martlet said:
The police chief can deny you without cause, remember.


Almost, but not quite, Martet. He can deny you, but, if you challenge his decision in court via a petition for judicial review, the oolice chief has an obligation to show his denial was neither arbitrary nor capricious.
 
Cross-X said:
Almost, but not quite, Martet. He can deny you, but, if you challenge his decision in court via a petition for judicial review, the oolice chief has an obligation to show his denial was neither arbitrary nor capricious.

Good point. They do have quite a bit of wiggle room, though.
 
The Boston Patriot said:
If you want to challenge it it will cost you a lot more than a membership fee.
(figured out what the QUOTE button was for...)

Oh, right, the whole cost-benefit calculation. I thought it was a good idea at the time to "play by the rules" and got a sport-target license for my troubles. Well, just buying a gun was a big step for me six months ago. Now I'm irritated that I settled for too little. Amazing how your perspective changes...

By the way, I (mostly) like the Boston Gun Club. I've got an issue with their attitude about bringing unlicensed guests, but the guys there are great guys otherwise. I just found out it's got a new part-owner as of a few weeks ago, so that particular unlicensed-guests problem might improve. There are already several improvements in other areas (like: the store at the front of the range actually has guns in the display cases again!).
 
It is my understanding that Boston has "one of their conditions for LTC" requiring CONTINUAL gun club membership during the ENTIRE 6 years of your LTC and that you are "obligated" to report any membership lapse to BPD (which will result in suspension or revocation of your LTC). Since it is one of the "conditions of issuance" for Boston, it will probably pass muster with the Boston court system.

It is a "discretionary" thing that Boston documents, so if you were to win, it would cost you thousands in legal fees to save ~$600 in membership (6 years)!

Doesn't sound like a cost effective battle in MA under our current system.
 
CX is correct, there is no MGL requirement for club membership. It is the "discretionary thing" that is likely to allow the local chiefs to require it if they want to.
 
based solely on the amount of info i had seen from other mass residents on various forums I joined the manchester firing line before i applied for my LTC just to cover every possible angle.
I choose the firing line because it was only 100.00 to join.
This way i had covered my ass with their provision,legal or not, and if for some reason had my app still had not flown discretionally i would have only been out a hundred bucks as opposed to the 325+$ it takes to join any local "members" club..
i copied my reciept showing my years paid membership as well as my membership card to a single sheet of paper and included it with my app.
seemed like the cheapest way to comply.
 
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My chief tried the "club membership" BS on my Wife for a renewal some years ago. I just "shut him down" and he dropped the issue. However, now she is a legit member of BR&P.
 
A few years ago I was talking with one of the board members at MRA and asked him how many members did we have. He replied somewhere around 1,200.

That kind'a surprised me since even on a busy day, the ranges and parking lot were not that crowded.

His response was that while the club had a decent sized membership, there was a fair portion whom only signed up because their CLEO made belonging to a club a requirement for an LTC.

It would make an interesting survey if all the MA ranges/clubs asked current and new applicants their reason for joining; specifically... if the reason was a "requirement".
 
Marlboro does not require a club membership, but Hudson does - I used to live there. As has been pointed out already, though... it's cheaper to join than fight it. (yes, Scrivener... I know. What you tolerate, you validate [rolleyes])
 
dwarven1 said:
Marlboro does not require a club membership, but Hudson does - I used to live there. As has been pointed out already, though... it's cheaper to join than fight it. (yes, Scrivener... I know. What you tolerate, you validate [rolleyes])

I understand those who want to make their decision based upon a rational cost-benefit analysis. I DO get tired of them whining to me about it afterwards. It goes something like this:

"He shouldn't be allowed to get away with that c*** - but I don' want to make waves." (Then why call?)

"I don't like being jerked around - but I have to live here." (Again, so why call?)

"They only do it because people let them get away with it - but you can't fight The System." (Not with THAT attitude.)

Note that a $100 membership fee is half of what the FILING fee for an appeal is.
 
Scrivener said:
Note that a $100 membership fee is half of what the FILING fee for an appeal is.
Just out of curiosity, what would it cost to take the appeal to it's end? I know there can be many variables but what should someone have in their war chest for such a fight?
 
Scrivener said:
Note that a $100 membership fee is half of what the FILING fee for an appeal is.
Unfortunately, unless you or someone you know wants to take this case on a pro bono basis, the real killer is the attorney's fees. (hey, someone's got to pay for your time; lawyers don't work for free!)

Ross
 
when I applied for my LTC the Lt. asked me if I was a member of a club, but didn't require proof. Either way he screwed me by putting the Sporting and Target on there. [crying]
 
SiameseRat said:
when I applied for my LTC the Lt. asked me if I was a member of a club, but didn't require proof. Either way he screwed me by putting the Sporting and Target on there. [crying]


Put a little time on your license, take another firearms class or two, and reapply about a year. Make sure your LTC application package includes some strong letters of recommendation, and a thoughtful cover letter stating why you have reason to fear injury necessitating the need to carry a gun for protection.

One course you should take is The Art of Concealed Carry. Jon Green and I teach this seminar at the GOAL Founation. Details about the course can be found at www.goal.org. Look in the training section.
 
JonJ said:
Just out of curiosity, what would it cost to take the appeal to it's end? I know there can be many variables but what should someone have in their war chest for such a fight?

Define "end." If you mean the end of the INITIAL appeal; i.e., through the district court hearing, figure $2 - 3k, depending upon how obstructionistic the PD is regarding discovery, etc.

Want to appeal to the REAL end; i.e., superior court (NOT my choice) or the Single Justice Session of the SJC, add another $1,500+. [shocked]

Note that, all this time, the PD is ALSO spending your money. Your taxes are paying for town/city counsel to obstruct your rights, which you are defending with your "discretionary" (read: post-tax) dollars. Which is another way PDs intimidate applicants into knuckling under.

Not that I've formed an opinion.............
 
Cross-X said:
Put a little time on your license, take another firearms class or two, and reapply about a year. Make sure your LTC application package includes some strong letters of recommendation, and a thoughtful cover letter stating why you have reason to fear injury necessitating the need to carry a gun for protection.

One course you should take is The Art of Concealed Carry. Jon Green and I teach this seminar at the GOAL Founation. Details about the course can be found at www.goal.org. Look in the training section.
Would you recommend going this way in People Republic of Newton given the history and attitude of NPD towards issuing ALP LTCs? I'm very much unterested and are willing to try it.
 
Yes, I would. If done right, and carefully, this technique works well in most cities and towns in MA.

You'd also be wise to have a firearms lawyer review your application before you submit it.
 
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