1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Class Action Suit?

Discussion in 'G.O.A.L. Massachusetts' started by clearshot7, May 5, 2013.

  1. clearshot7

    clearshot7

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    North of Boston
    Out of my league here, not being a lawyer, but want to bring up the idea of a class action suit against the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for violating their own regulations and laws regarding LTC new issues and renewals. I am now in the "grace period" for my LTC which expired on 4/8/13. Knowing the delay in getting through the bureaucracy, I met with my local PD (Tewksbury) and did all the paperwork on 2/11/13. It will be soon be 3 months since the renewal process started. I may be incorrect, but I believe that the regs/laws state that the State has 40 days to make a decision on granting/renewing a LTC. If this is the case, then can the State be sued for violation of their own statues? Probably spitting in the wind here, but wanted to raise the point.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  2. chaser001

    chaser001

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    342
    Location:
    1/2 mile south of free america
    Tewksbury is green but they're talking a wicked long time to issues...my wife did her paperwork on Janary 30th...she's still waiting.
     
  3. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    39,047
    Likes Received:
    6,859
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    Contact Comm2a.org
     
  4. TZCHRIS

    TZCHRIS NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,462
    Likes Received:
    444
    Location:
    NV
    My buddy turned his app in on Jan 10 (Foxboro) They cashed his check a week later and that is it, no appointment, no calls, nothing. He has called and gone there many times and gets turned away with no answers? Thats 4 months and he hasn't even gotten an interview yet.
     
  5. Amazon

    Amazon

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    MA
    sounds like theft to me...call a cop. oh wait.

    But seriously, there are so many documented cases of abuse in this state, why can't anything be done?
     
  6. goodlife30

    goodlife30

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,375
    Likes Received:
    378
    It's all the new gun owners limited staff from what I have been told. It sucks but do you want to be the one to sue the chief when you are asking for a Ltc? I actually got a letter from the state reminding me to apply two months early due to delays. So they know what's going on
     
  7. If it were an issue with their pay and allowances, you can bet your ass it would have been done in a couple of days. The problem in MA is there are no consequences for them dragging their feet.

    So glad I'm not renewing, they've seen my last dime.
     
  8. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,085
    Likes Received:
    3,329
    Location:
    My forest stronghold
    We've looked at class actions. It's easier said than done. Part of the problem is that Massachusetts doesn't actually have an effective administrative procedures act. You can't actually for a government official in this state to do their job. I many other states you can go to court and seek a writ of mandamus that would force a police chief or other official to do their job. That doesn't really work in MA.

    The avenue to do address this problem is the "a right delayed is a right denied" approach. As of this date, the official court response is "what right?"
     
  9. clearshot7

    clearshot7

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    North of Boston
    i think a key issue here is differentiating new applications for LTC (those individuals presumably don't own any guns or have a permit/license to own a gun in home, but not for concealed carry) from LTC renewals (those individuals presumably have a gun or guns that they carry). I am now in the "90 day grace period" for 1 month, and it is questionable whether I would be legal after 60 more days to even have a gun, let alone to carry one. I was told by my local PD that I would be a "fool" to carry after the 90 days. Of course, I cannot buy any ammo or another gun within the 90 day grace period. I wonder what the State would say if an individual who carried legally every day, but then could not do such due to delay by the State in granting a renewal, was severely beaten or killed because he/she could not carry for personal protection - probably, "Oh well...."

    Perhaps, there should be a "fast lane" for renewals. I certainly do not intend to minimize the 2nd Amendment rights of those applying for their first LTC, but renewals do have other issues as noted above. What do you think?
     
  10. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    50,925
    Likes Received:
    8,373
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    There is NO culpability for the PD or state in delaying the process, nor is there any culpability if someone beyond the grace period is killed/raped/robbed due to the legal inability to protect themselves. Sorry, but there is nothing in MGLs that makes any part of gov't responsible when they don't do their jobs as prescribed in MGLs! It's also why a Katrina Bill will never pass in MA as one major tenet of that bill was holding the gov't officials personally and financially responsible for any illegal confiscations . . . their unions/lobbyists (think MCOPA) just will never allow any such bill to pass.
     
  11. EC1

    EC1 NES Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,742
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Location:
    Somewhere
    My belief is that the delays are caused at the local end. Over the past year I have renewed my license and have several friends who have renewed theirs in different towns in central MA. The rationale is that if it was something at the state level it would seem unlikely that many renewals in one town take several months between the time you meet with the police and get your renewal versus another town where the time from meeting with the police until the renewal is back is typically less than 5 weeks. Despite the claims from towns where the delays are longer than allowed by law, the statement that "the state is behind" seem unlikely. Anyone have additional observations?
     
  12. TZCHRIS

    TZCHRIS NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,462
    Likes Received:
    444
    Location:
    NV
    I was shocked at what the Chief in Foxboro said about how in the last 4 months (this was at the Foxboro town mtg on gun violence a couple months back) he said applications have more than doubled in the last four months, I was expecting to hear the number would be in the hundreds but he said it was like 84 applications?
    I don't see how 84 apps in four months would be overwhelming?
     
  13. shamrockjr

    shamrockjr

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Central Ma
    Unbelievable. Leave it to our liberal court system to come up with a response like that.
     
  14. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    33,807
    Likes Received:
    10,171
    Back in 1976, MA had a handgun ban referendum. Shortly before teh vote, the SJC grabbed Commonwealth v. Davis sua sponte so it could issue a ruling that there is no individual right to firearms ownership, "conveniently" just before the referendum. The SJC also shot down an attempt to put an alternative proposal on the ballot that would have reduced the chances of the referendum not being enacted. But, despite those efforts, the referendum failed.

    This case has been the lynchpin of other cases -for example, Shelburne v. Moyer is the most commonly cited case that establishes that due process for firearms licenses is at a lower standard than for cases involving deprivation of a right, property or liberty - and specifically cites Comm v. Davis as establishing there is no "right", therefore, deprivation of a firearms license is not punishment, and, as such, is not subject to due process protections.

    It's going to take a federal case where the issue is simple - deprivation of the right to own a handgun in the home for protection based on rumor, heresay, a charge that was dropped or adjudicated not guilty, exercise of the 5th amendment, etc.

    There haven't been that many appellate or SJC cases post-heller that address this issue directly. For the most part, the precedents being cited (Comm v. Davis; Moyer v. Shelburne; Godfrey v. Wellesley; etc.) pre-date Heller.
     

Share This Page