Class A LTC Hunting and Target...

[glockshooter]

Hello,
I wanted to know what people think of a class A permit that is restricted to Hunting and Target? Does this allow you to care concealed on your way to the range and on your way to go hunt? My assumption is yes after doing some reading here and seeing that some towns use restrictions such as "No concealed carry".
Thanks

 

[vellnueve]

It means what your issuing PD tells you it means.

 

[appraiser]

it means they gave you a permit to buy guns you can't carry on your person.

You can take them unloaded, in locked containers......to the range and back

 

[glockshooter]

If "Hunting and Target" means you can not carry concealed at all why don't they just say "No concealed carry" instead. I have talked to many different people and it seems to be a point of confusion. My lic. officer told me that that this meant that I can carry to the range and hunting.... He was not clear in any way shape or form. Why are the laws so unclear?

 

[hunter46spring]

If your issuing agency allows you to carry to and from the range or while engaged in other target, hunting, or sporting purposes then you can carry. It is at the discretion of the issuing authority. Your best course of action is to contact the agency and ask what their definition is.

 

[gene]

If your issuing agency allows you to carry to and from the range or while engaged in other target, hunting, or sporting purposes then you can carry. It is at the discretion of the issuing authority. Your best course of action is to contact the agency and ask what their definition is.

In writing preferably

 

[vellnueve]

it means they gave you a permit to buy guns you can't carry on your person.

You can take them unloaded, in locked containers......to the range and back

Not necessarily. It depends on what their PD's definition of that means.

 

[Libertarian]

I had the same thing told to me by the licensing officer in Waltham. I asked him to be very clear on this... He said I am going to get a Class A LTC with the Hunting and Shooting restrictions and this means that I can conceal carry when I leave my residence to the range and back. I asked specifically should I have it unloaded and lucked up while I am doing this? He said we prefer it to be on your body concealed. So that was pretty clear as far as what the LO told me in Waltham. So I can conceal carry when I am going to the range. I am wondering if because I live in Waltham and will be joining a club in Worcester County, if I happen to stop at a store on the way, will I be in violation?

 

[ztargetshooter]

I have a similar restriction. (sporting and target). My thoughts are WTF is the point of conceal carrying to the range when you can't do it anywhere else? Even if your PD says you can do this, what will happen if your reaching for something at the gas station in another town (that may be red) and LEO spots your piece? You're going to have a looong day. Not worth it.

Seriously though, you will be more comfortable in your car without a gun on your hip. When people talk about CC to the range I think they are almost planning on stopping for a soda or something for the thrill. How does CC to the range improve your day at the range? Less chores at the range before you begin shooting?

 

[Libertarian]

I agree, I just wished that Waltham was gonna give me an "All Lawful Purpose" Class A instead of one with restrictions for this very reason! I hate the grey area of these restrictions.

Here is a scenario. I leave Waltham to drive to... Greenfield to shoot with my cousin, Legally I can conceal carry on the way there. What if I stop to take a restroom break at a McDonalds and an LEO makes a point of it somehow... What is my legal exposure? Or What if I stopped at the Gas station to refill on the way there???

Whats crazy is that for $65 I can get a NH non-resident Carry license and conceal carry all I want in NH but not in my home state... And in VT I believe its Open Carry

“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it” - Thomas Sowell

 

[Individualist]

When will somebody challenge this type of non-sense in court. Not an attorney, but I would like to imagine that the Heller case has made it more clear that an individual's right to keep and bear arms for personal and home defense would make this type of restriction unconstitutional. Some day...some day...

 

[romeo]

"All Lawful Purpose" LTC

The Police Chief in your town is the one who most likely sets the stage for what goes on your LTC within his jurisdiction. I have a LTC for "All Lawful Purposes". That's what I request on my application. However, unlike some applicants I have had "supplemental" training beyond the basic. You may need to convince your PD that you are "responsible", and not just someone who desires to pack. If you want to "upgrade" a LTC from only hunting and target to something else, you might want to take a few certified additional courses in personal protection/safety, lethal force, handguns, etc. and include that in your application. That will at least suggest to your issuing authority that you are further trained in the use of lethal force and weapons, and it gives them a reason to give you what you want on your LTC... which separates and upgrades you from other everyday applicants. No one should have to go through such hoops and $$, because I believe in the right to bear arms. But if it gets you what you want... hope this helps.

 

[trophygrl]

you need to call and ask your COP exactly what your restriction means.

also to the post above... just because you ask for an alp lic. does not mean you are getting one... even with supplimental training. that really has nothing to do with it. it has more to do with how much the COP in your town likes to restrict elligible citizens from exercising their right to carry. it's stupid.

has everyone here forgotten what state we are in here?

 

[Fixxah]

Are you sure you are ready to own handguns and follow the law as it pertains to travel from range etc.? The issuing authority may tell you to just go ahead and do it. What happens then when you are pulled over and LEO finds said gun on you? Unsuitable ring a bell?

IANAL so do as you see fit. Good luck with that.

 

[Libertarian]

I am sure I am ready to own handguns Dude. I asked the Licensing Officer to make sure that I am in full compliance with the law and to clarify what I can and can not do with regards to the restriction.

 

[M1911]

Personally, I would not carry concealed on a restricted license, even to and from the range. I would not put faith in what the licensing officer told me unless I got in writing on PD letterhead.

 

[Ham Slam]

Personally, I would not carry concealed on a restricted license, even to and from the range. I would put faith in what the licensing officer told me unless I got in writing on PD letterhead.

+1

 

[jairadio]

Personally, I would not carry concealed on a restricted license, even to and from the range. I would not put faith in what the licensing officer told me unless I got in writing on PD letterhead.

I agree 100%.

Honestly, anyone with a restricted LTC should follow your advice, your way of thinking is fool proof.

 

[dagwag77]

Personally, I would not carry concealed on a restricted license, even to and from the range. I would not put faith in what the licensing officer told me unless I got in writing on PD letterhead.

+1. As said, theres only one fool proof way to make sure you dont get effed. Handle it conservatively, lock it up, prove you are responsible, and then get your LTC upgraded at renewal time.

Are you sure you are ready to own handguns and follow the law as it pertains to travel from range etc.? The issuing authority may tell you to just go ahead and do it. What happens then when you are pulled over and LEO finds said gun on you? Unsuitable ring a bell?

IANAL so do as you see fit. Good luck with that.

+1 here too. If you dont want to comply with your restrictions and handle your firearms responsibly and legally, it may not be your time to own firearms.

 

[donzolio]

I agree, I just wished that Waltham was gonna give me an "All Lawful Purpose" Class A instead of one with restrictions for this very reason! I hate the grey area of these restrictions.

Here is a scenario. I leave Waltham to drive to... Greenfield to shoot with my cousin, Legally I can conceal carry on the way there. What if I stop to take a restroom break at a McDonalds and an LEO makes a point of it somehow... What is my legal exposure? Or What if I stopped at the Gas station to refill on the way there???

Whats crazy is that for $65 I can get a NH non-resident Carry license and conceal carry all I want in NH but not in my home state... And in VT I believe its Open Carry

“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it” - Thomas Sowell

A class A Permit in Mass Allows Concealed Carry. So, if you have a target restriction its easy to argure that Most clubs are open 24/7 with "lockers" to store all your gear in. whoops I forgot my locking device at home so to remain in compliance with the Mass storage laws I had no choice but carry on my person. but its 2am you say. Im on my way home (to the cape from the berkshires) where i was target shooting with some friends. Bottom line is A Class A Permit allows concealed carry. If the town doesnot want you to carry concealed they will issue a Class B permit or on restrictions they will place No Concealed Carry. the target and hunting stems from the old days (pre 1998) then the permit had a line that asked for reason for issuance. T&H was a common reason that permits were issued, and even then it did not prohibit concealed carry.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

A class A Permit in Mass Allows Concealed Carry. So, if you have a target restriction its easy to argure that Most clubs are open 24/7 with "lockers" to store all your gear in. whoops I forgot my locking device at home so to remain in compliance with the Mass storage laws I had no choice but carry on my person. but its 2am you say. Im on my way home (to the cape from the berkshires) where i was target shooting with some friends. Bottom line is A Class A Permit allows concealed carry. If the town doesnot want you to carry concealed they will issue a Class B permit or on restrictions they will place No Concealed Carry. the target and hunting stems from the old days (pre 1998) then the permit had a line that asked for reason for issuance. T&H was a common reason that permits were issued, and even then it did not prohibit concealed carry.

That is dangerous advice. The only way to safely carry to and from the range on a restricted A (I am talking sure fire) is to get the meaning of the restriction in writing from the LO. Anything else is a damned gamble.

Raiser to play the restrictions field as "if the LO wanted you to carry concealed, he would not have issued a restriction"

Your words could lend someone to getting into trouble and having a hell of a fight ahead of them

 

[M1911]

A class A Permit in Mass Allows Concealed Carry. So, if you have a target restriction its easy to argure that Most clubs are open 24/7 with "lockers" to store all your gear in. whoops I forgot my locking device at home so to remain in compliance with the Mass storage laws I had no choice but carry on my person.

If someone lives in Winchester and is a member of Mass Rifle in Woburn, a Boston cop who finds them carrying isn't going to believe they were on their way to the range. And their licensing officer likely wouldn't believe it either. Cops get lied to all the time and I doubt they would buy that story for a minute.

If your licensing officer wanted you to carry concealed he would have issued an unrestricted LTC.

Clubs with lockers? I've never seen a club with lockers to store your gear, and I've been to Wayland, Riverside, Woburn, Mass Rifle, New Bedford, Lee, Pioneer, Hopkington, Concord, harvard and Lowell.

 

[PATRON]

As far as I can remember the club in Boston does have lockers.

 

[Da_lucche]

Officer Modeca of Waltham told me I could stop along the way from home to range, from range to home if it meant getting gas, etc. That if I was coming home from the range and my gf wanted to meet up for a meal, I would have to lock it up.

Having membership to a 24/7 range would help for an alibi for CCWing when not going to the range locally if it was not completely out of the way.

 

[M1911]

Having membership to a 24/7 range would help for an alibi for CCWing when not going to the range locally if it was not completely out of the way.

Good luck with that.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So, if you have a target restriction its easy to argure that Most clubs are open 24/7 with "lockers" to store all your gear in.

Two questions:

1. Will it work to raise reasonable doubt on a "carrying outside restriction" charge? Perhaps, provided you have thousands to have an attorney properly argue the case. Since the penalty is a $1000-$10,000 fine, the "expected value" of taking the penalty is probably lower than fighting it with a trial.

2. Will the issuing authority consider it an action that renders you unsuitable? Remember, that there is no need for "proof" here; the courts have ruled that the licensing officer must simply have a basis for his decision, and that it is not the role of the court to second guess if that decision is the same one the court would have made.

Or, in other words, "Good luck with that"