Church Shooting in Texas. (Or, we're not going anywhere with this one.)

Picton

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FYI he was a reserve deputy from 80-86
Of course he was.

But any LEO status he might once have had has nothing to do with why he was choosing to carry in church. The headline makes the sheep think it does.
 

Picton

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CNN isn’t a legitimate news source.
You're missing my point.

Millions read CNN. So CNN shapes the narrative for those millions. I'm just pointing out how they're altering that narrative so that our pro-2A message gets lost.
 

mikeyp

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Of course he was.

But any LEO status he might once have had has nothing to do with why he was choosing to carry in church. The headline makes the sheep think it does.
I was in the 5th grade 33 years ago(same amount of time since he was RESERVE deputy) does that mean I'm still a middleschooler? Ridiculous.

Was. His place burned down in 2016 but he had his place for like 30 years. His old FB page for his school, people were saying they would chip in to get him back up again after this
 

Picton

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I was in the 5th grade 33 years ago(same amount of time since he was RESERVE deputy) does that mean I'm still a middleschooler? Ridiculous.
You're not arguing with me, are you? I'm agreeing with you.

But when those threads roll up periodically with NESers bemoaning the fact that 2A can't get any traction among antis and nons, it's because of narratives like these.
 

mikeyp

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Shooter's info released. Shocker, he's been in trouble before and is a felon, so a PP with a gun


The man who fatally shot two people at a White Settlement Church on Sunday before being killed by church security has been identified as a 43-year-old Keith Thomas Kinnunen, a River Oaks man with a long criminal history and described by his ex-wife as "battling a demon" and "not nice to anyone."

Kinnunen was identified as the shooter Monday morning by two law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation. NBC 5 has learned his criminal past included charges of assault, theft, arson and possession of an illegal weapon in Texas, Oklahoma and New Jersey.

Kinnunen was believed to have been wearing a disguise, including a fake beard and wig, when he stood up from a pew during communion, pulled a shotgun from his clothing and opened fire inside a North Texas church, killing 64-year-old Anton Wallace, a church deacon from Fort Worth, and 67-year-old Richard White, of River Oaks.

Volunteer church security immediately approached Kinnunen and returned fire, killing him.

"I was so surprised because I did not know that so many in the church were armed," Isabel Arreola said, telling the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that she was sitting near the gunman, had never seen him before, looked like he was wearing a disguise and that he "made her uncomfortable."

1577754486403.png

The FBI is working to identify the shooter's motive. Matthew DeSarno, the Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's Dallas field office, said the gunman was "relatively transient," but had roots in the area.

Britt Farmer, senior minister at West Freeway Church of Christ, confirmed Monday that the church had provided Kinnunen with food on multiple occasions, but wasn't sure of the date of the most recent gift. The church also confirmed Kinnunen had asked for money, but was not given any.

Church leaders said they did not recognize Kinnunen on Sunday morning because he was in disguise, confirmed the son of the church's senior minister. In fact, many lifelong church members said they immediately noticed the strange man because it appeared he was wearing a large, fake beard.

Kinnunen's ex-wife, Cindy Glasgow-Voegel, filed for a protective order in January 2012 in Grady County, Oklahoma. In her statement in the order, she wrote, "Keith is a violent, paranoid person with a long line of assault and batteries with and without firearms. He is a religious fanatic, says he's battling a demon. He is not nice to anyone."

In that same 2012 document, Glasgow-Voegel said Kinnunen showed up at her home in October 2011 unannounced, with no money or vehicle, asking to see his son. She said she got him a trailer and a job and that he quit the job, assaulted a man in Tuttle, Oklahoma, and was in the county jail. She said their 15-year-old son was "terrified" of his father and that he threatened her should she try to keep them apart.

In the protective order, the woman said her son was visiting his father when he set several fires around Tuttle and that her son recorded the arson but didn't saying anything out of fear of retaliation. An arrest warrant affidavit filed in December 2011, that included a statement from his teenage son, said Kinnunen set a cotton field on fire using lamp oil, tampons and a lighter. His son also said his father liked to play "fire football," where he soaked a football in a flammable liquid, lit the ball on fire and then they'd toss it back and forth. The teen told police he thought it was unsafe but that he was "afraid he might get mad at me if I asked to stop."

In November 2011, two months before his ex-wife filed the protective order, Kinnunen was charged with aggravated assault and battery in Grady County, Oklahoma, after he repeatedly hit a man in the face, breaking his nose.

Locally, Kinnunen had a criminal record in Tarrant County including charges of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon in 2009 and theft of property in 2013. River Oaks police arrested him in 2009 and 2015 on warrants for unpaid traffic tickets, River Oaks, Deputy Police Chief Charles Stewart said.

Court records show Kinnunen sued a Fort Worth nightclub, the OK Corral on the South Freeway, in 2007 alleging he was “relaxing” in the club when attacked by several of its employees, including the manager.

His complaint said he “suffered serious and disabling injuries” and would continue to “suffer severe mental and physical pain and distress in the future.” The operators of the club denied the allegations and the case was eventually settled out of court, according to the records.

Kinnunen also was arrested in September 2016 for possession of an illegal weapon in Linden, New Jersey, after he was found taking pictures outside an oil refinery, WNBC in New York has confirmed. Kinnunen said he was traveling from Texas, was homeless and was taking photos of “interesting sites.”

At the time of his New Jersey arrest, Kinnunen also had a warrant for his arrest in Oklahoma for aggravated assault, mycentraljersey.com reported.

NBC 5 has learned Kinnunen was once licensed as a landscape irrigator and backflow prevention assembly tester. No other information about his employment history has been confirmed.

Stewart said Texas Rangers and other law enforcement officers searched Kinnunen’s home on Sunday soon after the shooting at the church.
 

cams

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308, I agree with Rob here. I’ve been around this forum long enough and read enough of your posts that I’m sure you didn’t mean that the way it sounded - but seriously bud, it reads badly.
He stated on here just about a year or so ago that he was a member of a White Nationalist organization. Things got a little heated with the membership here and then it just died down, so that comment really isn’t surprising in the least.

My search-foo sucks, but I’m sure it’s still here somewhere. Take it for what it’s worth.
 

mikeyp

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And Shannon Twats chimed in and made herself look even douchier than she already does


Over the weekend, there was a shooting at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas. Two people were killed. The shooting occurred just before communion was about to be offered to the parishioners when a man opened fire with a shotgun (via DFW CBS Local):

View: https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1211442736399818754


Three people are dead, including the gunman, after a shooting at a church in the Tarrant County city of White Settlement, officials said.

Authorities responded to the shooting Sunday morning just before 11 a.m. at the West Freeway Church of Christ on Las Vegas Trail.

A witness told CBS 11 News the gunman walked up to a server during communion with a shotgun and then opened fire. According to the witness, another church member — identified as a former FBI agent and part of the church’s security — shot the suspect.

“It was the most scariest thing. You feel like your life is flashing before you. I was so worried about my little one,” Isabel Arreola said.

Two church members were killed in the shooting, while the gunman was fatally shot by the man who worked security.

(some tweets I'm not linking are in the story)

Yet, even if armed security wasn’t there, the congregation had more than a few people with concealed carry permits in the church. The point is simple: a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun. Or in this case, multiple good guys with guns were ready to defend themselves and others in the church. It’s a no-brainer position that the anti-gun Left mocks or ignores because real life has slapped them so hard, they’re intellectually disabled. Good people with firearms defend their lives and the lives of others on a daily basis. While it’s not the Second Amendment’s intent, the self-defense aspect that comes with it is a popular position, hence the bunker mentality anti-gunners have for situations like this. Yet, it wouldn’t be the Left to just let this tragedy slide without offering their own garbage takes. Enter Shannon Watts, a Bloomberg lackey:

View: https://twitter.com/DLoesch/status/1211668057841639424


Former NRA spokesperson and conservative commentator, along with others, have been torching the Left’s reaction to this shooting.


“Bloomberg’s Moms Demand group is arguing that the hero and other armed church members should have been disarmed, resulting in further loss of life. In their world, only criminals would have guns and heroes deserve shame. Wow,” she tweeted posting screenshots of Watt’s takes on Twitter. Yet, Watts wasn’t alone.

The fact is a gun rights talking point was validated for the national media to see. The anti-gun Left knows this will create an obstacle to their anti-gun agenda. Their supporters will allow them to do nothing, so spout off nonsense is the default. Grab some popcorn because someone is bound to have an even worse take than the one spewed above.

 

tuna

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No way he was going to make it .
The muzzle was already on him before he even touched his gun.
That couple of seconds saved some other lives.
I think the poor guy knew it, and went for it anyway. Definitely allowed the other shooters to get a shot. Plus, with his getting shot, it made an easier decision for Wilson: the victim had to make the decision to draw and fire against someone who wasn’t actively shooting yet, there was still time to hope for a bloodless outcome. Wilson was able to not have to make that decision and just return fire.
 

new guy

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He was already made at that point, there was nothing to be heroic about. He drew the first shot through his actions - standing up and then slowly drawing his handgun on someone holding a long gun and facing him just 10 yds away.
 
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Not sure what was being said, what he saw, or what he thought was happening. He very well may have made a conscious decision to draw the attention to himself. He very well may have saved lives at the expense of his own. That is heroic.

It also could have been possible that maybe he could have remained seated and drawn without the murderer noticing. I don’t know. Maybe that wasn’t possible at all.

It does give us something to think about. How we’d handle things when faced with a similar situation.

If it turns out the killer was getting ready to shoot someone, and he made the decision to sacrifice himself to save others, well, there’s not much to say. RIP.
 

bigred460

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The BB on point as usual


"We grieve that this tragedy we could have exploited for weeks on end was stopped by a good guy with a gun," said one teary-eyed MSNBC reporter on the scene. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the shooter."

"We are absolutely heartbroken and in shock over here," said one New York Times journalist. "What could have given us weeks and weeks of frothing-at-the-mouth stories about gun control will now have to be suppressed since it does not align with our agenda."

News outlets also reminded the nation that they reserve the right to immediately bury mass shooting stories that don't help push their agenda.

Outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and ABC News confirmed that they carefully look over the facts of a given case to see if it lines up with the correct opinions before deciding to push it incessantly for weeks on end.

"While we usually would exploit a tragedy like this to push our gun control agenda, in this case, the facts don't really help us," said CNN reporter Bob Costanza, after a recent shooting was shut down by a citizen with a gun. "It's tragic that it ended that way, because we really could have gotten a lot of mileage out of that bad boy."

The media didn't even try to find children who were present during the shooting to parade around talk shows and put on the covers of magazines for a full year this time around.
They are also disappointed that they can't use the ban the AR narrative since the shooter used a shotgun.
 
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I
308, I agree with Rob here. I’ve been around this forum long enough and read enough of your posts that I’m sure you didn’t mean that the way it sounded - but seriously bud, it reads badly.
My apologies. But people like her make me want to puke. They are the reasons why our 2A rights are under attack like never before. I would take 10,000 Fudds over one anti-gun puke. She should do what I do: sit at the desk, do the job and STFU!
 
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He stated on here just about a year or so ago that he was a member of a White Nationalist organization. Things got a little heated with the membership here and then it just died down, so that comment really isn’t surprising in the least.

My search-foo sucks, but I’m sure it’s still here somewhere. Take it for what it’s worth.
I joint that group in response to the latest federal gun ban proposals at the time. Friend said they were pro-gun and true to our shared southern heritage. I took it at face value. I should have done more research. My error.
 

Dadstoys

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And Shannon Twats chimed in and made herself look even douchier than she already does


Over the weekend, there was a shooting at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas. Two people were killed. The shooting occurred just before communion was about to be offered to the parishioners when a man opened fire with a shotgun (via DFW CBS Local):

View: https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1211442736399818754


Three people are dead, including the gunman, after a shooting at a church in the Tarrant County city of White Settlement, officials said.

Authorities responded to the shooting Sunday morning just before 11 a.m. at the West Freeway Church of Christ on Las Vegas Trail.

A witness told CBS 11 News the gunman walked up to a server during communion with a shotgun and then opened fire. According to the witness, another church member — identified as a former FBI agent and part of the church’s security — shot the suspect.

“It was the most scariest thing. You feel like your life is flashing before you. I was so worried about my little one,” Isabel Arreola said.

Two church members were killed in the shooting, while the gunman was fatally shot by the man who worked security.

(some tweets I'm not linking are in the story)

Yet, even if armed security wasn’t there, the congregation had more than a few people with concealed carry permits in the church. The point is simple: a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun. Or in this case, multiple good guys with guns were ready to defend themselves and others in the church. It’s a no-brainer position that the anti-gun Left mocks or ignores because real life has slapped them so hard, they’re intellectually disabled. Good people with firearms defend their lives and the lives of others on a daily basis. While it’s not the Second Amendment’s intent, the self-defense aspect that comes with it is a popular position, hence the bunker mentality anti-gunners have for situations like this. Yet, it wouldn’t be the Left to just let this tragedy slide without offering their own garbage takes. Enter Shannon Watts, a Bloomberg lackey:

View: https://twitter.com/DLoesch/status/1211668057841639424


Former NRA spokesperson and conservative commentator, along with others, have been torching the Left’s reaction to this shooting.


“Bloomberg’s Moms Demand group is arguing that the hero and other armed church members should have been disarmed, resulting in further loss of life. In their world, only criminals would have guns and heroes deserve shame. Wow,” she tweeted posting screenshots of Watt’s takes on Twitter. Yet, Watts wasn’t alone.

The fact is a gun rights talking point was validated for the national media to see. The anti-gun Left knows this will create an obstacle to their anti-gun agenda. Their supporters will allow them to do nothing, so spout off nonsense is the default. Grab some popcorn because someone is bound to have an even worse take than the one spewed above.
That woman is a sick individual.
May Karma deliver her exactly what she has coming.
 

MaverickNH

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Millions read CNN. So CNN shapes the narrative for those millions. I'm just pointing out how they're altering that narrative so that our pro-2A message gets lost.
Yeah, I see your point for sure. The anti-gun orgs first tried to spin it as TX passing laws to allow CCW in churches as the cause - but that fell flat almost immediately. They are moving on to try to define this with some stamp of government authority with a former LEO as the hero, in hopes of diminishing the "good guy with a gun" perspective.

But look where they are retreating to - a parishioner, former/retired LEO, stops a mass shooting as an unpaid, volunteer armed guardian. That's a distance from insisting there be no active, armed LEO/SRO in schools and churches as they are houses of learning and God. CNN & the liberal media are not going to endorse Constitutional Carry in schools, churches, malls and sporting events - ever.

Training & experience usually beats training, so as long as I can CCW too, I'm quite fine with former/retired professionals taking the lead roles in self-organized, citizen-based security efforts for schools, churches, etc.
 

MaverickNH

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It's just pitiful Deadly shooting in Texas becomes a rallying cry for both sides in the gun control debate

But gun safety advocates argued that the shooting itself wouldn’t have happened if the U.S. — and Texas — had stronger gun regulation. “Media referencing the White Settlement shooting owe the public a nuanced discussion; we need watchdogs to make sure it’s so,” tweeted Shannon Watts, founder of gun safety group Moms Demand Action. “Two are dead due to Texas’ lax gun laws; a man with a long criminal history was able to access a long gun,” she added.

Trump's Tweet less than an hour earlier: Armed congregants quickly stopped a crazed church shooter in Texas. If it were not for the fact that there were people inside of the church that were both armed, and highly proficient in using their weapon, the end result would have been catastrophic. A big THANK YOU to them!

But look at those Twitter statistics:

MDA (Shannon Watts) 324 Likes/123 Talking & Trump 93.6k Likes/28.9k Talking

CNBC gives equal voice to MDA with 288-fold lower Twitter "action" than Trump. Those Moms may demand action, but they got none [laugh]
 
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