Check out Chet’s interview with Stop Handgun Violence; it’s scary!

[sellscottsell]

Where to begin….first of all, this indeed is a horrible event and my prayers go out to the families who have been affected by this tragedy.

While watching the news, I viewed a Chet Curtis interview with John Rosenthal, the founder of Stop Handgun Violence. Chet asked pretty good questions and even came to the side of law abiding citizens and gun collectors, but this fellow Rosenthal is the type of guy we all need to be very wary of. Rosenthal spouted off about our “failed policy in Iraq”, our “failed National gun policy” and the success of Massachusetts most stringent gun laws in the US next to Hawaii. But what really frosted my cake was when he commented about owners of assault weapons being “gang members or survivalists or guys who don’t trust the government”. He mentioned that we will continue to see this kind of mayhem if the laws aren’t changed and how can people be surprised? Here’s a link to the show, don’t blame me if it makes you puke.
http://www.boston.com/news/necn/Shows/chet/

Worse yet is the SHV home page, you wont believe me if I tell you, so take a look and tell me if you think the visual is a direct result of this latest shooting. http://www.stophandgunviolence.com/home.asp


So, if I buy an AR-15 now, does this mean I don’t trust the government?

 

[codenamepaul]

Very good. Guy makes me want to throw up.
He fails to realize @A has nothing to do with anything but the violent outing of the current government

 

[Len-2A Training]

Rosenthal doesn't fail to realize anything. He's a weasel, conniving individual who plans and plots out his moves very carefully. Every time there is blood on the street, you'll find John dancing in it!

Go to a gun hearing and listen to him speak. Then go over and try talking with him! Then you'll really want to puke until you're dead! BTDT

 

[second]

What a douche

 

[calsdad]

I saw Chet's interview last night on NECN. Rosenthal does seem like a weasel. I thought Chet did pretty good - he poked him a little but not as much as I would have hoped.

If I remember correctly Rosenthal said a few things about the 2nd amendment being outdated and other similar crap.

 

[Mr Weebles]

It's disheartening to see "journalists" just take his pablum at face value. Someone needs to get on a show with him and bring actual facts and figures, i.e. the increase in gun violence in the Commonwealth since the "most effective gun laws in the nation" were enacted.

Since he's allowed to just spout this garbage unchallenged, the public will think it's true.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Where did he get his numbers that said that Massachusettes is safer against gun fatalities than most of the country?

I mean does he read the Local and State section of the Globe?

Grrrr

PS: He keeps saying "Who did the background check?" Well if he had a valid licence his background was checked by the same people as the rest of us within the last 6 years. Plus the NICS check since I haven't heard anything about the AR-15 being an non-mass-legal gun...

 

[drgrant]

The only reason guys like him fail is because they end up talking
too much. He told numerous lies in the interview that nobody
is going to believe. (eg, that MA has one of the lowest gun violence
rates) This means that many non-owners will instantly see him as
being of a dubious nature. (the same way that nobody believes that
Mayor Lang was awoken by gunfire. )

You don't even need stats to counter this guy, really, even a person that
points out every lie he made in that interview would be enough to
cover up his dirt.

I'd place a fair wager that this guy is big enough of a pussy that he
wouldn't appear on any show, radio, tv, or otherwise, where he had to
debate someone on the other side of the issue. His speech is so thick
with outright, blatant lies that it would be trivial to destroy him in a
debate. I've met people who were antis who put up a lot better reasons
than this guy did.


-Mike

 

[sellscottsell]

The only reason guys like him fail is because they end up talking
too much.

Perhaps, but remember, this guy is so high on gun control that he's devoted much time and effort to win his belief. Mr. Rosenthal is a pro and I'd wager that he'd eat most challengers for lunch. It will require the likes of an equally tough NRA paid spokesperson if ever a debate is to take place. He spins data to his favor, much the same way we spin the data to our favor; it’s not wrong, it’s just a fact. Unfortunately this game of “Politics as Usual” holds our love for guns in the balance. I believe the worst thing that could happen is that this fellow goes up against a gun supporter who's not as articulate and quick minded with the facts (right or wrong) as he.

 

[Bandit]

The sickest part of all this is that He and His Buddies are members of a Mass. gun club , and shoot Skeet or Trap .
I was made aware of what club in a casual conversation over Gun nut's , with a person who Knows Him and has seen Him there shooting .
We ( the Mass Sportsmens Council ) have heard rumors that He was a Fellow Shooter , but no solid proof , until now , just subtile rumors. Now we will have to do a little snooping , and bring a little pressure on the Club , if it is true.
Bob

 

[TOM-P]

Founder of stop handgun violence, hmmmm does that give him the authority to discuss AWs.


what a toolbox

 

[Emoto]

The sickest part of all this is that He and His Buddies are members of a Mass. gun club , and shoot Skeet or Trap .
I was made aware of what club in a casual conversation over Gun nut's , with a person who Knows Him and has seen Him there shooting .
We ( the Mass Sportsmens Council ) have heard rumors that He was a Fellow Shooter , but no solid proof , until now , just subtile rumors. Now we will have to do a little snooping , and bring a little pressure on the Club , if it is true.
Bob

He should be shunned by every club in the state.

 

[drgrant]

Perhaps, but remember, this guy is so high on gun control that he's devoted much time and effort to win his belief. Mr. Rosenthal is a pro and I'd wager that he'd eat most challengers for lunch. It will require the likes of an equally tough NRA paid spokesperson if ever a debate is to take place.

I think you're giving him way too much credit. He might be sneaky but
he's not that good. He gets the recognitiion he does because he has
the cash and that lame assed billboard of his, nothing more. I've met
liberal college kids that were better at trying to sell an anti gun agenda than
he is. Fully brainwashed doesn't mean that he's accomplished at
arguing the issue. There are ways to get a point across without
resorting to using lies and misinformation, and it appears that his methodology
is loaded with that. (He lied the better part of 5 times or
more,in a blatant manner, during the interview. ) And most of those lies
are lies that could be countered by a pro gunner with a modicum of experience.

I'm not saying that this guy isn't "dangerous" in terms of spreading BS... he
certainly is.... what I am saying is that if anyone called him on the carpet
over his BS, that he would be destroyed. A douche like this guy, would
never expose himself to that, though.

-Mike

 

[JonJ]

I read somewhere that he's in a substantial real estate development partnership in New Hampshire. I'm sure that's his next target.

 

[drgrant]

The sickest part of all this is that He and His Buddies are members of a Mass. gun club , and shoot Skeet or Trap .
I was made aware of what club in a casual conversation over Gun nut's , with a person who Knows Him and has seen Him there shooting .
We ( the Mass Sportsmens Council ) have heard rumors that He was a Fellow Shooter , but no solid proof , until now , just subtile rumors. Now we will have to do a little snooping , and bring a little pressure on the Club , if it is true.
Bob

This doesn't surprise me at all. He probably signed up somewhere so he
can use it as a front to fall back on if someone called him out on his assertion
of being a gun owner. I wish you good luck in pressuring whatever
club it is... there are a lot of "trap on sundays elmer fudd" encampents
in this state, where rifle and pistol shooters are sometimes considered
to be subhuman.

If the club was cooperative it would be interesting to find out when he
got his membership there. It's very possible he magically appeared there
about the same time he appeared on the anti gun scene however many
years ago. It would not surprise me if this guy is an out and out fraud,,
in the same vein as some of the other anti gun organizations
are.


-Mike

 

[Lynne]

Perhaps, but remember, this guy is so high on gun control that he's devoted much time and effort to win his belief. Mr. Rosenthal is a pro and I'd wager that he'd eat most challengers for lunch. It will require the likes of an equally tough NRA paid spokesperson if ever a debate is to take place. He spins data to his favor, much the same way we spin the data to our favor; it’s not wrong, it’s just a fact. Unfortunately this game of “Politics as Usual” holds our love for guns in the balance. I believe the worst thing that could happen is that this fellow goes up against a gun supporter who's not as articulate and quick minded with the facts (right or wrong) as he.

Ah, that may be true, but WE don't have to lie they way he does.

 

[KMaurer]

I think you're giving him way too much credit. He might be sneaky but he's not that good. He gets the recognitiion he does because he has the cash and that lame assed billboard of his, nothing more. I've metliberal college kids that were better at trying to sell an anti gun agenda than he is. Fully brainwashed doesn't mean that he's accomplished at arguing the issue. There are ways to get a point across without resorting to using lies and misinformation, and it appears that his methodology is loaded with that. (He lied the better part of 5 times or more,in a blatant manner, during the interview. ) And most of those lies are lies that could be countered by a pro gunner with a modicum of experience.

Being able to lie through your teeth with a straight face, and act completely innocent even on the rare occassion when you're caught is the most powerful tool for public persuasion there is. We're not talking objectively moderated college debating, here, but getting the public to believe whatever you say. He does it all the time, usually selecting his venues carefully enough that he's rarely caught, and not even missing a beat when he is. He's so good at it, he's got to be either a complete sociopath or one of the world's greatest actors.

Ken

 

[Lynne]

He's so good at it, he's got to be either a complete sociopath or one of the world's greatest actors.

I vote for the first.

 

[drgrant]

Being able to lie through your teeth with a straight face, and act completely innocent even on the rare occassion when you're caught is the most powerful tool for public persuasion there is. We're not talking objectively moderated college debating, here, but getting the public to believe whatever you say. He does it all the time, usually selecting his venues carefully enough that he's rarely caught, and not even missing a beat when he is. He's so good at it, he's got to be either a complete sociopath or one of the world's greatest actors.

Ken

I agree that in that sense, he has that down pat... but as I believe
you've pointed out, that's the difference between him having to debate
someone and not having to debate someone. IMO it's pretty easy
for anyone to get away with being a douchebag if they're protected from
criticism most of the time. Most politicians are a perfect example
of this... and they use the same MO as rosenthal does, although at least
the public scrutinizes them a bit more than they would scrutinize
him. On the other hand, he comes off quite strangely, though. I
watched this interview and there was a way he said a few things that
just didn't make any sense. (aside from the obvious lies he was
telling) Again, he's slick, but he's not that slick. In terms of
the snake oil salesman trick, I don't think he can touch Deval or Bill
Clinton with a 50 foot pole in that regard. The difference is
anyone analyzes them and its hard to point a finger; with rosenthal
you play it back a few times and then you say to yourself "Wow, this
guy is really f*cked up!" I vote sociopath, too.


-Mike

 

[Bandit]

He should be shunned by every club in the state.

We ( the MSC ) have heard the rumors at functions that He was a shooter , but could never connect the dots.
After our Dec. MSC meeting in Auburn , another member and I were at Dunkin Donuts talking ,when a guy beside us , saw our decals and other nut wear and started talking about anti's . mentioned Rosenthall was a real hipacrite , told us way ,how he knew him , who he was .
Let Me say that he has a legal/law backround , and when I told him about this forum , He has seen it , but doesn't hang here. But He told Me LenS last name.

With My daughter being operated on I haven't had the time to get with the Pres. , and Lobbiest, to tell them the good news.
So We can call the Club , and ask if He is a Member or a guest .
Bob

 

[Len-2A Training]

Okay Bandit, clue me in . . . my Email still works!

No idea who the lawyer is, but I've been active with GOAL since 1976 and know at least casually a lot of lawyers who have been involved in the gun rights/GOAL stuff over those years. I've testified at damn near all the gun law hearings for >20 years at the state house (Comm. on Public Safety). My name really isn't much of a secret . . . on controlled lists my name is usually posted in full, only on "world wide access" sites do I choose not to post my full name (as we have no control on where our info might turn up).

There is a back story to Rosenthal IIRC. My memory on this goes back perhaps to pre-1998, so forgive me if I'm wrong . . .

- IIRC he had stated that he was shot in the head as a kid and that began his epiphany that guns are bad . . . in everyone else's hands but his!

- He got lots of sympathy with that story. If my recollection is correct, he went into morbid detail at one of the Comm. on Public Safety hearings.

 

[sellscottsell]

Being able to lie through your teeth with a straight face, and act completely innocent even on the rare occassion when you're caught is the most powerful tool for public persuasion there is.
Ken

Well said Ken, I agree completely. I also agree with Mike in that he comes of a bit strange in the interview. My first though was why did he choose to wear a black fleece vest? He obviously drove to a TV studio and knew Chet was going to interview him; wouldn't it look better to represent your cause wearing a suit? It looked as if he were being just a bit too cavalier. Mike's observations are correct; he's not a Deval or Bubba with regard to selling his story.

 

[greycar]

Straight Shooter

"His group hopes to pull together some of the remainder and to promote an agenda that supports both hunting and
stricter controls, to offer moderate gun owners an advocacy group and moderate candidates cover between
political extremes."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2006/02/05/straight_shooter/

 

[sellscottsell]

That’s a very Interesting article Greycar. It illustrates Rosenthal's commitment to his “organization for moderate gun owners called the American Hunters and Shooters Association”. This guy is a player and he will not be going away.

I was most troubled be seeing the President of the Ipswich Fish & Game Association quoted as saying "I've been a member of the NRA for 30 years, because there is no alternative," "But I can't see any good that they've done." What was this guy thinking when he was interviewed by the Globe?

It’s common sense now that there are those who would like to take our guns away. I certainly would rather deal with Mr. Rosenthal than have to deal with Michael Beard from the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. With that said, if you choose to contribute to an article, be smart. The NRA may well be the only game in town, but to their credit, we still are able to shoot, hunt and buy guns. Do you think we would even be having this discussion if it weren’t for the NRA?

 

[drgrant]

It’s common sense now that there are those who would like to take our guns away. I certainly would rather deal with Mr. Rosenthal than have to deal with Michael Beard from the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.

IMO rosenthal is worse than the others because he's a fake and a
liar. At least with brady et al, you know you're playing with full
blown antis.

The thing is, all so called "moderate" gun control groups are a complete
sham. They are "front companies" who are marionetted by the bigger
jackasses further up the anti gun food chain. AGS, AHSA, etc, are all
110% anti gun, despite the "pretending" they do in terms of supporting s
some issues. Follow the social circles / money trains and eventually you
get back to schumer, kennedy and friends. None of these organizations
are "genuine" in any respect. (Seriously... whens the last time you've
heard of a gun safety course sponsored by AGS or AHSA? Never. You
know why? Because they don't exist. There are no training people,
etc, like there are tons of in the NRA. )

The tough thing is its hard to know how damaging these people
are or aren't. They seem to be targeting the fudds/trap on sundays
types. Anyone whos an NRA member typically thinks these people are
a sham (the NRA even goes to great lengths to disassociate itself with
such sham front companies) but the millions of gun owners outside of that
circle, some of them might be dumb enough to huff the fumes of "moderate
gun control". (That term, in and of itself is pretty laughable... when you
start looking at gun ownership as a right, the NRA is really only a
"moderate" group and isn't as radical as the media makes it out to be. )

Another avenue people may have not looked at is these orgs are probably
really just shills for democratic political candidates. It allows douchebags
like john kerry to use them as a mouthpiece to try to win over
fudd votes. It would appear to me that they're probably more effective
at that than anything else. (They can generate fancy looking press
releases and pay PR agencies to advertise their "endorsement" of whoever
the candidate is. ).

WRT the president of that club- it's possible hes a "trap on sunday" dem and has
been pandered to by rosenthal or one of his cronies. That'd be my
guess. It's also possible he's just blissfully ignorant about how fake these
front orgs really are.

The level of shamming going on here is like what the Church of Scientology
does, except it's not nearly as good.... lol.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Actually, here's an interesting article on FreeRepublic:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1731980/posts

Basically it draws lines between these fake groups and their "masters".

The funny thing is, it's so bad and so blatant- some of the candidates they
support support even ANTI HUNTING groups. That's pretty telling right
there.


-Mike

 

[sellscottsell]

None of these organizations
are "genuine" in any respect. (Seriously... whens the last time you've
heard of a gun safety course sponsored by AGS or AHSA? Never. You
know why? Because they don't exist. There are no training people,
etc, like there are tons of in the NRA. ) -Mike

WOW. That's a great point Mike. You've "outed" Rosenthal in one sentence. Rosenthal is quoted as saying there needs to be more training, yet he’s not doing a bloody thing to offer up any courses. He probably would tell you to take an NRA course!!!

I'm coming up to speed on anti-gun issues. Thanks for the lessons, you are spot on Mike.

Scott

 

[drgrant]

WOW. That's a great point Mike. You've "outed" Rosenthal in one sentence. Rosenthal is quoted as saying there needs to be more training, yet he’s not doing a bloody thing to offer up any courses. He probably would tell you to take an NRA course!!!

I'm coming up to speed on anti-gun issues. Thanks for the lessons, you are spot on Mike.

Scott

Here's a few more links... even the NSSF issued a statement about these
fakes and they're about as "topical" as it comes.

http://www.nssf.org/share/pdf/AHSA_Fact_Sheet.pdf

An Op-Ed written about AHSA:

http://www.gunowners.org/op0624.htm

You'll also note that one of the main members of AHSA is an ex-ATF
upper level thug, from the clinton administration. That's the
equivalent of having a convicted rapist on the board of
directors of a women's shelter, when one thinks about it long
enough. (During the clinton administration the atf seemed
far worse than it is now... as thats when the huge bloodletting of
Type-01 FFLs had occurred. )

-Mike

 

[matt1956]

was he pulling those numbers out of his ass?

cause when you check the FBI site... it shows the numbers are drastically different then the bs that this a**h*** is spewing.

what a f---head.

 

[gws1063]

Rosenthal is a blatant liar. I was watching him be interviewed a few years ago (by Liz Walker, perhaps?) on the impact of the 1998 changes in MA gun laws. I had just purely coincidentally been researching the Mass crime rates and firearms related crime.

He started rattling off figures to show how the '98 changes were decreasing the rates of gun crimes and how wonderful it was that we are all now safer as a result. I thought "huh, that's funny, I didn't know the '99 stats were out already", since I hadn't found them. Then it hit me: I recognized the numbers he was quoting, but they were from the 1995-98 period! All he was doing was taking the figures from before the law was passed, presenting them as post-98 data, and using them to support his position. That is when he made the transition to pond scum in my book.

-Gary