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Changing Eye Dominance

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Hey-

I'm right handed but learned how to shoot leftie due to left eye dominance. I noticed lately that my target skills were crap. Turns out that I'm now right eye dominant.
Supposedly this sort of thing doesn't happen. According to the NRA I don't exist...
Has this ever happened to anyone else or am I alone?

-jen

Oh- and by the way, great site. I'm a new registrant. Howdy.
 
derek said:
Welcome to the board Jen. What type of shooting do you do most of the time?

Derek

Hi Derek thanks for the welcome!

Mostly I shoot 9mm (CZ75) and .22LR (Ruger Mark III) target. Also love the AR15 but was having trouble with gas in my eyes as a lefty. Haven't gotten to the range to shoot it righty yet.
 
Hiya Jen,

I freely confess to not knowing a thing, or even hearing about the problem you describe, so I did a search, and found that you seem to be afflicted with what is called 'cross dominance'. If you google the term cross dominance, you should find ample reading on the subject, but below is one I found that seemed both informative and shooting-related.

HTH,

Leighton

_______________________________________________________________________________

Getting a Grip on Your Dominant Eye

By JOEL M. VANCE


Eye dominance is a basic of shotgun shooting, but some hunters don't know if they shoot with their dominant eye or not — didn't even know they "had" a dominant eye.

Most of them are missing the mark — literally.

Everyone has a dominant eye and for most it is the eye that corresponds to their dominant hand; in other words, a right-handed person will be right-eye dominant and a lefty left-eye dominant.

But not always and for those who, say, shoot right-handed, but have a dominant left eye, there is a problem. The left eye will point the gun several inches from where it should be — far enough to almost insure a miss. Shooting with a built-in error is no way to consistent success.

It's simple to find your dominant eye. Just point at any object with both eyes open (or make a circle with thumb and fingers and center an object in the circle). Assuming you're right-handed, shut your left eye. The finger or circle should still be on target if your right eye is dominant.

Shut your right eye. Your finger will be pointing to the right of the target if you're right-eye dominant.
Another method is to cut a small circle in a sheet of paper and, with both eyes open, line it up on an object some feet away, using the hole like the peep sight on a gun. Assuming right-handedness, shut your left eye. The object should remain centered if you also are right-eye dominant.

Try it a half-dozen or more times. You should get the same result each time. But there are a few people who don't have a consistent dominant eye. Eileen Clarke, a Montana outdoor writer, is one. "I checked it some years back and every time, my right eye was dominant," she says.

"But a couple of years ago, I started missing birds. I checked again and every other time I tested, my dominant eye was different — one time the right eye, the next time the left eye."

She got help from Bill Dowtin, a Flagstaff, Ariz., gunsmith. Dowtin has worked with many "cross-dominant" shooters and believes the only two viable solutions are, first, to switch shoulders and shoot from the dominant side or, second, to close the dominant eye before the shot. In Clarke's case, he used a third solution: obscuring the vision in the dominant eye enough to force dominance to the other eye. The Orvis Wing-Shooting Handbook (Nick Lyons Books, 31 West 21 St., New York, N.Y. 10010, $8.95) is the only instruction manual I've found that deals with what author Bruce Bowlen calls cross-dominance. He deals with the problem in some detail.

His preferred solution is for the shooter to learn to shoot from the dominant-eye side. In other words, a right-handed shooter with a left-dominant eye should learn to shoot from the port side. This is the preferred solution for everyone I talked to.

Gun writer Tom Gresham is cross-dominant. His father, Grits Gresham, who also is a gun writer, noticed it when Tom was young. "He quickly switched me to shooting left-handed," Gresham says. "The thing to watch for is a shooter leaning his head over the stock to use the 'wrong' eye for sighting."

Gresham shoots a handgun right-handed, but the aiming stance is different from a shotgun and the handgun essentially splits the difference between the two eyes. Try it — grip your fists together as if you were shooting a handgun and point at an object. If you close your eyes alternately, you'll see your pointing fingers jump to one side or the other of the object.

But you can ' t shoot a shotgun like that unless you rest the butt in the center of your chest. Hurts. Not recommended.

Gresham estimates that about 10-12 percent of the population is left-handed, but somewhere around 20 percent is left-eye dominant, which means quite a few people have a cross-dominant problem. He thinks left-handers with right-eye dominant are few — but I've talked to some, so the problem exists on both sides.

"People can change their shooting side even as adults," Gresham says. "Easiest way is to keep a gun handy in your office or living room. Shoulder the gun on the 'correct' side every few minutes. Do this every day for a couple of months and it starts to feel natural."

New shooters shouldn't have much problem adjusting, but old dogs probably will have trouble learning that new trick. However, people learn to eat offhanded or dribble a basketball. And baseball is filled with switch-hitters (Ted Williams, modern baseball's greatest hitter, is cross-dominant). For many, it's a matter of practice. When the incentive is more birds on the ground, it's worth a try.

Dennis Carpenter, an archery coach from Washington state, also recommends switching sides. I've worked with eye patches with some success, but if shooters are serious about improving beyond average, I always recommend switching hands to match the dominant eye."

Steve Gregory is a Maryland certified NRA instructor who is left-handed and right-eyed. "I've worked with a number of boys who are cross-dominant, including my son," he says. "It initially takes a bit of work, but with patience anyone can learn to shoot off either shoulder."

Orvis's Bowlen also suggests as a solution shutting the dominant eye at the moment of shooting. "The shooter can use both eyes until the last instant," he says. "Only after the decision to shoot has been made and the gun starts toward the shoulder is the eye closed."

But Bob Brister, longtime gun editor of Field and Stream magazine, competition shooter and gun instructor, thinks that at least in some shooters the sight picture is so fixed that they'll continue to point the gun where their dominant eye told them to. even with that eye closed. "You should shut your eye before you ever see the target," he says.

And there are some who simply can't close one eye -- they can't wink. They either have both eyes open or both shut. So the closed-eye solution won't work for them.

It goes against good gunnery to shut one eye while shotgun shooting. Keeping both eyes open and concentrating on the bird is the nub of successful shotgunning — but that's only when the eye and hand work together.

A third possibility is to obscure part of the dominant eye or blur its vision enough to force the other eye to become dominant.

It doesn't work with all people, but most shooters respond. Some put a bit of tape on the top part of the dominant eye lens of their shooting glasses.

Opaque tape cuts vision, so transparent tape is better. It blurs vision enough to cause the dominant eye to stumble and hand the baton to the other eye.

Brister has used tape or something to weaken vision in a cross-dominant eye, forcing the proper eye to become dominant. He once ran onto a cross-dominant shooter at a meeting and improvised a solution by spitting on the fellow' s lens, then sprinkling dirt on the slobber. Crude — but effective.

His method is to mount the gun on the shoulder of a buddy or over a tree limb so you don't have to use the leading hand. Close the cross-dominant eye and get a proper sight picture with the eye you want to become dominant. Then shut that eye without moving the gun.

Grease your free hand forefinger with something — Vaseline, hair grease, even nose slime. Position your finger until it obscures the gun barrel and dab the grease on that spot. you later can apply Scotch tape or a shooter' s aid called Magic Dot to the inside of the lens so it won't come loose.

Then you have a permanent fog that should force your dominant eye into submission. It' s an aggravation — any eyeglass wearer knows how irritating a blur on the lens is — but may solve the problem.

The dominant eye can change as one grows older and eyes themselves undergo change. Brister says, "Of all the problems I see among shooters who are reasonably competent, eye changes are the most common. A shooter who was strongly right-eye dominant when he was younger starts to get some eye changes and the eye that doesn't have all that gun mass in front of it wants to take over and start running the show."

Brister has had a couple of cataract operations and finds that when his eyes gets tired, dominance will switch to the off-eye.

The final and most expensive solution to the problem is what's known as a crossover stock, a specially-made stock that bends (casts) enough to point the gun properly even though the cross-dominant eye is trying to force it off the target.

Theoretically, it should work. If you're shooting properly, you aren't looking at the barrels and have no idea where they are pointing. You won't notice that they're off-line according to your eye. If you did, you'd bring them back in line — and, for the cross-dominant shooter, force them off the target again.

But Dowtin doesn't think special stocks will work. "I've made stocks for 20 years," he says. "And I've seen no evidence that a bent stock will correct the problem. Your dominant eye will pull those barrels off the target. I don't know how much is conscious and how much subconscious, but the dominant eye will take over and ruin the shot."

Gunstocks are like education — they're built for the average user. Most shooters find a gun that fits or is comfortable enough to use. They experiment with straight grips or pistol grips or Monte Carlo grips, find a length that feels good. Some build length in with a butt pad or add weight to the stock.

A good gun maker (for a commensurately good price) will custom-fit a stock by using a try-gun (a gun with an adjustable stock, like an old dressmaker's form). Try-guns solve all problems except the cross-dominant eye. They aren't versatile enough to design a stock that bends enough to help the cross-dominant shooter. So, the gun maker must rely on trial-and-error and experience.

It costs money, probably lots, because only very good gun makers will have the skill to build a successful stock. It really isn't a practical solution. Having a special stock made will cost far more than buying a bunch of ammunition to learn how to shoot from the other shoulder. While it goes against the grain of every shotgun shooter, most of whom are convinced they ' re as good a shot as anyone, to start all over, starting over is better than muddling through life shooting several inches off-target every time.

(Editor Note: Joel Vance is the author of Grandma and the Buck Deer ($15 soft cover), Confessions of an Outdoor Maladroit ($22 hardcover); and a book-on-tape collection of short stories read by the author, Billy Barnstorm, The Birch Lake Bomber ($17), autographed and postpaid from Cedar Glade Press, Box 1664, Jefferson City, MO. 65102.)
 
To keep gas from getting in your eyes you can remove the charging handle from the AR15. Get a tube of silicon and fill in the indent where the “T” is formed. Let it dry and use a razor to trim it flat and to cut the excess so the handle will lock in to place. That will seal the handle to the upper receiver and no gas will escape there in the future. [wink]
 
I guess I'm all messed up. I'm right eye dominant when shooting rifle/pistol and shoot rightie, but left eye dominant when shootin bow leftie.
 
SiameseRat said:
Hey-

I'm right handed but learned how to shoot leftie due to left eye dominance. I noticed lately that my target skills were crap. Turns out that I'm now right eye dominant.
Supposedly this sort of thing doesn't happen. According to the NRA I don't exist...
Has this ever happened to anyone else or am I alone?

-jen

Oh- and by the way, great site. I'm a new registrant. Howdy.

Welcome to the gang, Jen. Actually - you're not completely unusual. My husband and I are instructors and we've dealt with a number of cross dminant folks. However, there was one individual we taught a number of years ago that went from left hand shooting to right hand because of an eye problem that developed with his left eye (don't remember exactly what it was, but he could still see out of it). He had to use his right eye more and it became his dominant eye. And, I became ambidextorus (sp?) (I'm right handed, right eye dominant), however, when shoot lefty, I use my left eye. Sometimes I'm better shooting left handed than I am right handed. Go figure...

Lynne
 
Serendipity.

We happened to have a fairly lively discussion earlier this evening at the club on this subject. Vision itself is largely determined by the eyes themselves, while dominance is a completely neurological phenomenon. One of the members used to dominant in one eye, but as his vision deteriorated significantly in that eye he discovered that his other eye had become dominant. I'm right eye dominant, even though the distance vision in my left eye is noticeably better. Normally dominance correlates with handedness, since both are functions of the brain itself. Dominance can change over time, although it isn't that common. Some people also don't have a strongly dominant eye, so that the usual tests often provide mixed results, with one eye coming up dominant one time and the other eye the next. Cross dominance is usually used to describe the situation where a person is left handed but right eyed, or vice versa. My teaching experience seems to be pretty close to the books, with about 10-20% of students exhibiting cross dominance. I don't have any hard data on how common ambiguous dominance or changes in dominance over time are.

BTW, unlike some other medical specialties, it's very common for optometrists and ophthalmologists to be shooters. We had a couple in the discussion this evening, and I'd estimate that well over half of the ones where my wife works shoot.

Ken
 
Well I'm glad that I'm not the only person in the world who has had strange goings on with eye dominance. My fiance and our other cert instructor friends have said that I'm an anomaly. It was giving me a complex.
I think the biggest problem for me was that I've never had ambiguous dominance. Every time I tested eye dominance it was always left. Now it's always right. It was just a shock because of the neurological nature of eye dominance. I didn't think it could change and everyone around me said it couldn't change. I thought I had a tumor or something. Now I can safely say "It's NOT a tumahhh!" Thanks guys!
Thanks for the tip on the AR15 gases as well. :D
 
I also learned Right handed am am right eye dominant. I had to switch to left handed pistol shooting because of an injury, and I had an awful time with..
1.stance- it was backwards
2. grip.- just didn't feel right lefty
3. Eyes. I realized right away I had a problem with paralax, tried all kinds of exercises and whatever to try to get my left eye stronger. Eventually I figured out just dominate with my right eye and as long as you realize what's happeneing it's ok. IE, it really doesn't matter which eye you dominate with, as long as when you cover / close your weak eye you are retaining virtually the same sight picture as with both open.
Might not be scientific but it worked for me.
 
crazyneddie said:
I also learned Right handed am am right eye dominant. I had to switch to left handed pistol shooting because of an injury, and I had an awful time with..
1.stance- it was backwards
2. grip.- just didn't feel right lefty
3. Eyes. I realized right away I had a problem with paralax, tried all kinds of exercises and whatever to try to get my left eye stronger. Eventually I figured out just dominate with my right eye and as long as you realize what's happeneing it's ok. IE, it really doesn't matter which eye you dominate with, as long as when you cover / close your weak eye you are retaining virtually the same sight picture as with both open.
Might not be scientific but it worked for me.

I hear you on all the above. I just got back from the range and it still feels weird. I've only shot righty about 5 times now. Especially with my 686P because the hogue grip is so much smaller than the CZ I typically shot. Somehow the smaller grip makes it harder for me to hold in my right hand. I also still find myself putting my left foot back instead of my right.
However thankfully I shot a decent 75 rounds on the AR15 and the gases were much less noxious as a righty. Though I was shooting in bench position and the recoil gave me rug burn on my elbow... totally worth it however. [wink]
 
All messed up :)

A very interesting thread...

I'm a real mess :)

I throw, bat, and use scissors right-handed. But I write and eat left-handed.

A gun feels most comfortable in my right hand.

But I'm left-eye dominant. *sigh*

Unlike many of you, I'm a newbie at shooting (just bought my first gun today), so my habits (bad and otherwise) aren't quite as ingrained.

I'm trying to decide whether to give in to the eye and work on becoming a left-handed shooter or to deal with the cross-dominance issue (either by learning to sight with the dominant eye even though it's cross or trying to "build up" the non-dom eye and sight with it).
 
Lynne said:
Welcome to the gang, Jen. Actually - you're not completely unusual. My husband and I are instructors and we've dealt with a number of cross dminant folks. However, there was one individual we taught a number of years ago that went from left hand shooting to right hand because of an eye problem that developed with his left eye (don't remember exactly what it was, but he could still see out of it). He had to use his right eye more and it became his dominant eye. And, I became ambidextorus (sp?) (I'm right handed, right eye dominant), however, when shoot lefty, I use my left eye. Sometimes I'm better shooting left handed than I am right handed. Go figure...

Lynne

I'm right handed and was right-eye dominant most of my life. As I slowly developed cataracts, my right eye got worse than my left, and my brain switched to using the left as my dominant eye.

Eventually, the cataracts got bad enough to justify the surgery to my insurance company, and I had both eyes taken care of within a few weeks of each other. For a while, eye-dominance was ambiguous, then it went back to right eye dominant.

If Jen has noticed a change, I do hope she's had a thorough eye exam - in this case an opthamologist rather than an optometrist is probably a good idea - to check for medical problems with her eyes. There's usually a REASON for this thing happening. Not necessarilly a CATASTROPHIC one, but it's good to check.

As for you shooting better left handed, I'm not surprised. Because it doesn't feel "natural" to you, you probably concentrate very hard on doing it right, rather than unconciously slacking off.

Regards
John
 
Re: All messed up :)

lagrangian said:
A very interesting thread...

I'm a real mess :)

I throw, bat, and use scissors right-handed. But I write and eat left-handed.

A gun feels most comfortable in my right hand.

But I'm left-eye dominant. *sigh*

Unlike many of you, I'm a newbie at shooting (just bought my first gun today), so my habits (bad and otherwise) aren't quite as ingrained.

I'm trying to decide whether to give in to the eye and work on becoming a left-handed shooter or to deal with the cross-dominance issue (either by learning to sight with the dominant eye even though it's cross or trying to "build up" the non-dom eye and sight with it).

Let me first start by saying congrats on the first purchase! Please share with us what you bought and maybe post some pictures in the Gun Gallery thread.

I know how you feel...I do EVERYTHING right-handed...Eat, write, throw, bat, golf, etc. I am left eye dominant! As mentioned in the thread previously, I have taught myself to close my left eye when I shoot. As long as the left eye is blocked, the right eye is forced into temporary dominance, so just line up the sights and fire...You'll hit the black!

Best of luck [lol]
 
Was sort of surprised to see this thread back. I started it in May back in the early days of NEShooters [wink]

I've adjusted very well and now enjoy being able to switch back and forth between left and right handed shooting. I've decided to keep up being able to shoot comfortably with either hand in case it's a skill I may need some day.
I've been to an Ophthalmologist since and he didn't see any problems but thanks for the heads up!
 
Re: All messed up :)

lagrangian said:
A very interesting thread...

I'm a real mess :)

I throw, bat, and use scissors right-handed. But I write and eat left-handed.

A gun feels most comfortable in my right hand.

But I'm left-eye dominant. *sigh*

Unlike many of you, I'm a newbie at shooting (just bought my first gun today), so my habits (bad and otherwise) aren't quite as ingrained.

I'm trying to decide whether to give in to the eye and work on becoming a left-handed shooter or to deal with the cross-dominance issue (either by learning to sight with the dominant eye even though it's cross or trying to "build up" the non-dom eye and sight with it).

Congrats on the new gun, hun! If your left eye dominant - use your left hand. I've posted on this (as have some others) before. Go with your dominant eye. Since you already do things left handed, it might feel a bit uncomfortable at first, but trust me, you'll get used to it quickly.
 
Lynne, dear, with a pistol, he can do similar to what my son does. He's a lefty, but right eye dominant. He shoots rifle and shotgun right handed, but pistol left handed, using his right eye. It works well enough for him to easily qualify with the M9 Beretta.
 
Nickle said:
Lynne, dear, with a pistol, he can do similar to what my son does. He's a lefty, but right eye dominant. He shoots rifle and shotgun right handed, but pistol left handed, using his right eye. It works well enough for him to easily qualify with the M9 Beretta.

I understand some people can shoot cross dominance, luv, but it's recommended you stay on the same side. Not all people can shot left/right or right/left. :D
 
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