chambering a round

[TonyDedo]

Time for my Newbie Question of the Week:

I got into shooting bass-ackwards, and started shooting before I started taking classes. Shooting on my own, I got into the habit of using the slide release button to chamber the first round of a magazine. An instructor recently told me to release the slide manually instead (pull back & release).

I didn't really question it, just followed his instructions. However, I was shooting with my girlfriend last week, and noticed she had gotten into the same habit as I had. So I told her the same as my instructor had, and of course she didn't like it. So she asked why, and as usual, I couldn't answer.

So I pass on the question to the forum: why should you manually release the slide instead of using the slide release button when chambering the first round of a magazine? Does it make any difference from one gun to another (specifically a Ruger Mark III and a Colt 1911)? What about rifles, like the AR-15? Thanks so much!

-Chris

 

[tele_mark]

The biggest reason is that grabbing the slide with your hand and pulling it back to chamber a round is a gross motor skill. Under stress as you'd be if you actually had to use the gun to protect yourself, it would be a magnitude easier to grab the slide with the cement stumps your hands will turn into under adrenaline rather than fumble with the small slide release.

While it doesn't make a difference with the first round, you'll want to get in the habit of doing everything in a similar way, because there's lots of stuff that's related. For instance, if you have a FTF (failure to feed) with your pistol, the SLAP, Rack, Bang drill will have that same gross slide rack component. So, it's better to always chamber a round the same way everytime rather than have a different manual of arms for different situations.

 

[Adam_MA]

Moved this to the training section. Some of the trainers will be able to answer this question. As a matter of fact, Jim Conway started breaking me of this habit a couple of weeks ago. His explanation was a good one, that made sense. I won't be able to do it justice, so hopefully he will fill us all in...

 

[bpm990d]

From a mechanical standpoint I don't think it matters with most guns. I do know that on some guns you are better off loading from the magazine, instead of just dropping it in the chamber and letting the slide go. Their extractors are designed to have the rim of the case slip under the extractor instead of the extractor snapping over the case rim.

Like a lot of things in the gun world there are lots of myths that are passed along at gun shops and on the range that are not true.

However the person may have been referencing something like tele_mark said; don't know.

B

 

[JimConway]

Slide release

Chris, Adam and Mark
You guys just made my day. You all remembered what I told you. That you forgot why is not very important. Mark, you nailed the answer. The issue is fine vs. gross motor skills. Another reason is when your hands are wet or cold or you are wearing gloves. Without boring you to tears, when you have had an adrenaline dump and your heart rate goes over 140 bpm, you will start to loose your fine motor skills. At 180 BPM you will have lost all of the fine motor skills. These are average numbers and you mileage may vary.
Check your owner's manual and notice that most gun manufacturers call that part a "Slide stop" and not a Slide release.

Please do not mention it to anyone but I do use the slide stop when I am in a timed qualification because it is slightly faster. using the slide stop will not do any damage to the gun that i am aware of.

 

[Tweed]

The button is a "Slide Stop" and not a "Slide Release". When you are pushing it down as a release there is wear occurring between the points where the stop and slide meet.

This does not happen when the last round is fired. The stop is pushed up by the empty magazine and the slide comes forward on it. When you pull the slide back the stop is moved out of the way by the spring. No friction, no wear, no unexpected failures.

On some pistols the full travel of the slide might not occur and this not enough force to make sure that the round is "in battery".

you don't want to put a round in the pipe and slam the extractor on to it by closing the slide. when a round loads from the mag, it connects with the extractor and rides home.

 

[tele_mark]

You're a great teacher Jim -- I still remember just about everything you taught me in that little class! And it sunk in, real deep!

 

[TonyDedo]

Ah hah! Thank you gentlemen, that makes perfect sense. It's good to know why so I can put it into context. For instance, I recently bought a 1911 with very sharp rear sights, which makes it difficult (read: painful) to release the slide the way Jim taught me - now I won't feel guilty using the slide stop until I get those edges softened.

You're a great teacher Jim -- I still remember just about everything you taught me in that little class! And it sunk in, real deep!

I couldn't agree with you more, Mark.

Jim - I'm looking forward to freeing up some time so we can get together again. I'll be in touch.

 

[GTOShootr]

After hearing the click of the seated mag, I always to rack the slide manually, and built into that act is pulling the slide back again enough to visually confirm a round is chambered. The chamber check seems to follow more naturally with the manually racking than the use the slide stop and that chamber check is important. I learned that from ScottB at matches but I think it works for whenever you make ready.

 

[TonyD]

As Jim stated the reasoning is the gross motor skills debate. I say debate because it's still ongoing. Many contend it takes no more GM skill to use the slide release under stress than it does to use the very same thumb to click off the safety or actuate the magazine release.

That being said, I now use the sling shot method in all scenarios mostly because of what Mark stated about relating to the tap-rack-bang malfunction drill. (However, if you ever get into advanced training it will be used at one point.)

And, that being said, if J.M. didn't want you to use it, he wouldn't have put serations on it.

 

[M1911]

The biggest reason is that grabbing the slide with your hand and pulling it back to chamber a round is a gross motor skill. Under stress as you'd be if you actually had to use the gun to protect yourself, it would be a magnitude easier to grab the slide with the cement stumps your hands will turn into under adrenaline rather than fumble with the small slide release.

This is something that a fair number of instructors claim these days (with no evidence to back it up). I disagree with it.

When I took LFI-1, Ayoob taught two different techniques for chambering a round during an emergency reload. He discussed the pros and cons of both techniques, and then explained why he uses the slide stop. There are many instructors who teach the overhand technique for grabbing the slide, assert that it is better, but never talk about the advantages of using the slide stop.

I'll describe both techniques for a right-handed shooter. The slide stop technique is that as your left hand regrips the gun (after seating the new magazine), you use your left thumb to push down on the slide stop. The overhand technique is that your left hand grabs the rear of the slide in an overhand fashion, pulls back on the slide, releases the slide, and then regrips the gun.

With a well-positioned, reasonably sized slide stop, the slide stop technique is about 1/2 a second faster than the overhand technique. I've never missed it on my 1911s, even during stressful IDPA matches or having instructors trying to distract me at classes. Not once.

If I was using a gun with an undersized slide stop (e.g., the small, flexible, standard Glock slide stop) or a poorly positioned slide stop (e.g., Sig), then I might be more inclined towards the overhand technique.

Those who favor the overhand technique claim that it is a gross motor skill. Sorry, but I don't buy it. The other advantage, as Tony and Telemark mention, is that it is very similar to the tap-rack-bang malfunction technique. I buy that more than the assertion of a gross motor skill.

If you use a gun with a decent slide stop, with practice you'll hit the slide stop without any problem. If you choose to use the overhand method, with practice you'll do so reliably, but you will still be slower than with the slide stop. Try both ways, see which one works best for you, and then train that way.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Beside Jim's reason . . . which I agree with . . . here's another example of why:

- Walther P99 .40 - If I merely release the slide stop after dropping a round in the chamber, in a large %-age of cases the slide will NOT go fully into battery! Meanwhile, said gun will always go fully into battery if I pull the slide all the way back and then let go.

 

[Lugnut]

I kinda use both. While at the range just practicing from a station I occasionally use the slide stop. However, at IDPA practice and action shooting matches I think I always use my gross motor skills and grab the slide with my weak hand. With most of my firearms, not only does it require the use of fine motor skills but I often can't release it without adjusting my grip (when I use my strong hand anyway for this). I don't think I've tried this with my weak hand...

 

[andy t]

I started out by using slide release, as "The gun digest book of combat handgunnery" was my first read after I got my LTC and that is what Ayoob recommends. However, after having trained under 3 separate instructors, and each one recommended using the overhand (aka american) method of pulling back, and letting go this is my present MO with pistols. I think another benefit of racking the slide is if you have to use a strange pistol that may have a funny position for a slide release or maybe not have a slide release at all you will be able to chamber a round.
When it comes to rifles, it depends. With AR's, I always use the bolt release. With M1A, I have to pull back the bolt - since there is no bolt release button.
One note: when using the "American" method, make sure you are keeping your primary hand's wrist locked, with the gun pointed down range. You can even do the "push pull" variation. Push forward with the hand holding the gun, while pulling back with the hand holding the slide.

 

[drgrant]

The button is a "Slide Stop" and not a "Slide Release". When you are pushing it down as a release there is wear occurring between the points where the stop and slide meet.

Yes, and that wear is so awful that even on a 1911 that I've put probably
the better part of 10K rounds through, the slide stop is still in fine
shape, as well as the notch it interfaces with on the gun. Will it
wear out? Maybe.... I've only ever replaced two slide stops- and in
both cases it was because the "gunsmith" who had installed the original
ones went a little too nuts in "fitting" the slide stop... so there were
mag compatibility issues with certain kinds of mags.

This does not happen when the last round is fired. The stop is pushed up by the empty magazine and the slide comes forward on it. When you pull the slide back the stop is moved out of the way by the spring. No friction, no wear, no unexpected failures.

So you're telling us, that friction/wear doesn't occur when the parts BANG
up against one another when the mag is empty? (if you think about
it, the slide essentially rams into the back of the stop when it comes
up.... ) I think the wear one way or the other is pretty
negligible, unless you've smeared lapping compound on your slide stop or
the notch it sits in on the slide. If the parts that are involved are of
good quality, yeah, wear will occur, but it will take a long ass time before
it gets to the point of being a real issue.

I can buy all kinds of other reasoning for doing it one way or the other, but
"parts wearing out" is not one of them- It's not much different than
saying "Don't drive your car, because the tires will wear out. "

Edit: (back on topic) FWIW, I usually slingshot/rack the slide by hand
anyways, but when I'm shooting with a 1911, I almost always use the lever
because its either a pain in the ass any other way (especially with a racegun that has
junk hanging off of it) and it seems a little faster.

-Mike.

 

[Adam_MA]

Walther P99 .40 - If I merely release the slide stop after dropping a round in the chamber, in a large %-age of cases the slide will NOT go fully into battery! Meanwhile, said gun will always go fully into battery if I pull the slide all the way back and then let go.

Len,
You may want to have that checked out.. I have never had this happen with my P99. On the plus side, a fully loaded magazine when slammed home into the mag well on my p99 will close the slide automatically...

 

[tele_mark]

Len,
You may want to have that checked out.. I have never had this happen with my P99. On the plus side, a fully loaded magazine when slammed home into the mag well on my p99 will close the slide automatically...

+1 on both counts as well here.

 

[M1911]

On the plus side, a fully loaded magazine when slammed home into the mag well on my p99 will close the slide automatically...

I've had this happen with my Glocks as well.

 

[Adam_MA]

My 1911 will do it on only with the factory mags that came with it, the others will do it only sometimes. My P99 will do it every time with all the mags...

 

[adweisbe]

This is something that a fair number of instructors claim these days (with no evidence to back it up). I disagree with it.

I agree with you on this. Note that the "slide stop" or "slidelock lever" etc. was checkered on the top on the original 1911 design. The same goes for most slidelock/slidestop levers. If it is not intended to be used a release why is it checkered or serrated? I find the Sig lever to be even better than the 1911 slidestop as I can hit the release on the Sig with my strong hand thumb and have the gun in battery for strong hand only shooting immediately and it is one less thing to do before reattaining my grip. I don't think it interferes with failure drills as a failure drill starts from a different stimulus.

One drawback I found recently was during a weak hand emergency reload. I had to pause for a split second when I realized I couldn't reach the lever and went to rack the slide almost immediately. I lost half a second in that scenario.

If a gun refuses to go into battery unless you slingshot then you have bigger issues to worry about. The gun is what we call "broken."

 

[M1911]

I find the Sig lever to be even better than the 1911 slidestop as I can hit the release on the Sig with my strong hand thumb and have the gun in battery for strong hand only shooting immediately and it is one less thing to do before reattaining my grip.

What I don't like about hitting the Sig release with your right-hand thumb is that to do so you are breaking your right-hand grip on the gun.

 

[N.E. CHARTERS]

I always use the slide stop when loading a semi handgun and use the bolt handle when loading semi shotguns or rifles. Never had a problem doing it that way.

I suppose one could use the release on a rifle/shotgun: In fact I do on one particular 12 GA.

hint: Never shoot the last round from the magizine in an semi auto or pump.
If you reload with one in the chamber when the magazine is empty you wont have to fool around with a slide at all.

 

[adweisbe]

What I don't like about hitting the Sig release with your right-hand thumb is that to do so you are breaking your right-hand grip on the gun.

I shoot 1911s most of the time so I actually have to struggle to keep my thumb off of the slide release in the first place. I don't have to adjust my grip to reach the release, I just move my thumb and at some point I have to remember to move it back down...

 

[M1911]

adweisbe: my point is that when you are moving your right thumb, you no longer have a strong grip with your right hand. It's not a big deal, but it just seems to me that when you have your right thumb on or near the Sig slide stop, that you don't have a very secure grip on the gun. YMMV.

 

[adweisbe]

adweisbe: my point is that when you are moving your right thumb, you no longer have a strong grip with your right hand. It's not a big deal, but it just seems to me that when you have your right thumb on or near the Sig slide stop, that you don't have a very secure grip on the gun. YMMV.

The slidestop happens to be in the same position as the 1911 safety and I am accustomed to riding the safety so either grip works for me. I also try to avoid using the side of the gun as a grip pressure area as that pulls the gun off to the side when pulling the trigger (a bullseye thing).

 

[Wingwiper]

In Rifle Shooting it is BEST to hand load the round into the Chamber and then allow the bolt to go home. Reason is, so the tip of the projectile does NOT get nicked or burred or scratched, causing it to wobble in flight to the target. This is VERY Important at Long Range.

As far as pistol shooting, I have heard some excellent reasons posted so far. Very interesting....

 

[matt]

Chris, Adam and Mark
You guys just made my day. You all remembered what I told you. That you forgot why is not very important. Mark, you nailed the answer. The issue is fine vs. gross motor skills. Another reason is when your hands are wet or cold or you are wearing gloves. Without boring you to tears, when you have had an adrenaline dump and your heart rate goes over 140 bpm, you will start to loose your fine motor skills. At 180 BPM you will have lost all of the fine motor skills. These are average numbers and you mileage may vary.
Check your owner's manual and notice that most gun manufacturers call that part a "Slide stop" and not a Slide release.

Please do not mention it to anyone but I do use the slide stop when I am in a timed qualification because it is slightly faster. using the slide stop will not do any damage to the gun that i am aware of.

One more thing Jim taught us: Don't ride the slide back into battery. Let it go with the slide all the way back. If you ride it forward, the gun may not go into battery and then it won't go "bang".

Matt

 

[tele_mark]

Yeah, that's right. Also, pull the slide back sharply and let it go and follow through by letting your weak hand hit your chest. I do that all the time now without thinking about it.

 

[M1911]

One more thing Jim taught us: Don't ride the slide back into battery. Let it go with the slide all the way back. If you ride it forward, the gun may not go into battery and then it won't go "bang".

That's standard dogma which should be taught in any Basic Pistol class.

 

[matt]

Yeah, that's right. Also, pull the slide back sharply and let it go and follow through by letting your weak hand hit your chest. I do that all the time now without thinking about it.

Careful if you have target sights on your gun! I did that over the weekend out of habit with my new 1911 and tore up the palm of my hand on the sharp edges!!

But it is the right way to train yourself.