Cetme L, embrace that vomit green......

warwickben

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so i got a Cetme L kit. ill probably build it in a few hours once my flat shows up this week. but figured i can start posting now. ill post photos of the de mill and build and also comparing the cetme L to the hk33 i built.

the cetme L is a Spanish 556 roller delayed rifle that started production in the mid 80's nearly 20 years after hk made there own based on the g3.
all hk roller delayed guns are fairly similar. they did not scale parts based on caliber so the 556 guns and 9 mm guns are bigger then they really need to be.
the cetme L is more or less a ground up re design. the bolt head and trunion are similar to the cetme c/hk guns but scaled down, the tigger group is a hk style ie using a push spring on the hammer, vs the torsion rotation spring think ar hammer spring) used in the cetme C. they also combined the grip frame and trigger housing as one part that slides inside the gun vs hanging below like the hk.
they moved the recoil spring to be inline with the firing pin, and the reciviver is more square shaped then the hk gun. another difference is mags. the cetml uses standard stang mags. the hk use there own, some p[eop[el say you need the spanish mags to make it run correctly or you need to sp[read the feed lips a hair. this could be due to wear on the few imported full auto guns. the company made some very slight changes to make standard stang mags work more reliable . talking to them they feel as tho other builds were based on guns that were worn out and there fixes are probably more inline with the correct dims. they were abel to find nos spanish mags and after measuring couldnt find difference to the stang standard. finger crossed lol.

for a fun read and more reason to hate prexis read this link from forgotten weapons. CETME-L Flats: HMG vs Prexis
i did not go with a hmg flat for 4 reasons, there cost of flat weldment and barrel and weld kit , lack of shell deflector, not willing to rent or give dims to build the bending jig (not paying 140$ to use a jig once) and the fact they would not sell the cetme l to mass or there stg clones. also there semi blocking stuff is kinda janky compared to what i went with.

i went with marcolmar firearms build kit with rail. it includes the flat , a new semi modded trigger housing, weldment parts and rail. you need to send them the selector to mod. they also will rent you a bending jig for 25$ a month with a deposit they refund the difference.

this is the marcolmar flat and build kit. you can see the ejection p[ort deflector and they engrave the flat to look close to the orginal markings. they combined there logo and the cetme logo on right side .
Build Kit With Rail-600x400.jpg

this is the hmg flat, lack of markings and ejection port deflector. on guns they built they used a electric pencil...........


IMG_5725.jpg
 
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Nice! HK93 is one of my fav rifles. I don't know anything specifically about the CETME guns, but I do know I LOVE that green. Can't wait to see how it comes out.
 

warwickben

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these two pics show the big difference betwen the bolts. the cetme l is smaller . when i pull the guns out i can take a p[ic showing the size difference. the other major difference is the cocking tube. on the cetme l you can rotate and lock the bolt back. so no more hk slap. the bolt hold is built into the rear sight. cetlbolt.jpgaction_h13_gewehr_41_hk_33labeled.png
 

84ta406

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I thought about picking one up this weekend from Apex but I have enough projects going on right now. Look forward to seeing how this turns out!
 

warwickben

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I thought about picking one up this weekend from Apex but I have enough projects going on right now. Look forward to seeing how this turns out!
i bought it at like 3am lol, was like might as well now vs never. better then the time i bought a mac 10 black out drunk at 3 am in a indian sub shop[ after last call. woke up[ the next day and saw my bank account called my friend i was with . was liek where did i blow like 200 ish. laughed and was like youll see. i guess i was so drunk i had him typ[e my credit card info and address less. few days went by and a mac10 kit showed up at my house.
 

Wildweasel

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My cet- L is an interesting piece but I like my HK33 better. I made a bending jig for the prexis flats I still have around if you think it would work with the flats you are using.
 

warwickben

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My cet- L is an interesting piece but I like my HK33 better. I made a bending jig for the prexis flats I still have around if you think it would work with the flats you are using.
im renting one from marcolmar fire arms. they want a 250$ deposit but only charge 25$ a month. they have the ejection port deflector on there flat. ive seen pictures of the prexis one and its kinda a hot mess lol.
 

warwickben

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I made this one from his specs. but yea it didn't have a spot for the deflector.
did you hear about his pkm barrel screw up? i made a comment a couple years ago on a firearms machinist group that i held off buying a pkm kit because he was the only one selling barrels at the time. turns out he screwed so many up some of the other weapons guild vendors remade them for free to cover his ass . it was done sorta to protect the guild. bunch of them had contacted me when i posted the photos of my psl barrel failing cause he made the extractor cut too bug.
 

Wildweasel

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Everything he made was a shit show. Even his 2nd gen CetmeL flat was out of spec. I cut 70 thousand out of the center of the flat and rewelded it to get it into spec. (the square top was too high the way it was made) But it was the only thing out there for years so I went with it and fixed the issues.
 

KMM696

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Mousing around the net, I found Apex for the CETME L kits, and from the commentary here and elsewhere MarColMar for receiver and barrel. Am I missing any sources? I'm feeling like I need another build to take years to complete.
 

warwickben

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those are your only (and best) sources at this time. if you want to shoot one/handle it let me know.
did you have to set bolt gap? guys on the guild said you just need to press the bass in till it stops lol... doesn't seem right. i know people used hk33 barrels so they dont have the lip, if you went that way what did you use for go/nogo on the bolt gap.
 

Wildweasel

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the HK 33 barrels had to be machined down so the lip was there, and yes you still need to set the gap. the trunnions do vary a bit. the settings we used are the same as the HK33 /G3 shoot for .018 ish. I do have shims if you need them.

The sale price is the best you will see this summer most likly per the main guy at APex.
 

Dennis in MA

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Not that it helps this thread, but I guess someone is working on a MA-Compliant CETME-L. I'm fascinated but can't weld worth a damn.
 

KMM696

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The voice of reason was socially distancing itself somewhere else, so I ordered the CETME L parts kit from Apex. Plus some other stuff I just had to have. :)

After watching Ian and Karl build one on Full30, I'm not convinced that welding worth a damn is an essential skill for this build.
 

warwickben

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The voice of reason was socially distancing itself somewhere else, so I ordered the CETME L parts kit from Apex. Plus some other stuff I just had to have. :)

After watching Ian and Karl build one on Full30, I'm not convinced that welding worth a damn is an essential skill for this build.
funny thing is i cant find those videos any more lol.
receiver cracking on welds. trunnion letting go, or over penatration causing cause issue with eht bolt release area or cocking tube.

if all you have is a mig welder make sure to cut some copper backing plates.
 

KMM696

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I had trouble finding them, too - didn't show up when I searched on full 30. Duckduckgo found them with the search 'cetme l build step' - but not while searching for Videos, just 'All'. Weird.... If I were a paranoid gun owner, I'd think they had been deliberately hidden.

CETME L - Build Step 1 - Unpacking Your Kit - first one in the series.

As far as welders go, I currently don't have one. Previous career I could get anything welded for a 6-pack in the machine shop. I've used mig a couple times, but I'm wondering if it would be too steep a learning curve to just go to TIG. I've got other projects that will need welding, all similar to this. It's time to just get one, I think. And some copper - backing plates is just the sort of thing I wouldn't have remembered until after I had screwed up!
 
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warwickben

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I had trouble finding them, too - didn't show up when I searched on full 30. Duckduckgo found them with the search 'cetme l build step' - but not while searching for Videos, just 'All'. Weird.... If I were a paranoid gun owner, I'd think they had been deliberately hidden.

CETME L - Build Step 1 - Unpacking Your Kit - first one in the series.

As far as welders go, I currently don't have one. Previous career I could get anything welded for a 6-pack in the machine shop. I've used mig a couple times, but I'm wondering if it would be too steep a learning curve to just go to TIG. I've got other projects that will need welding, all similar to this. It's time to just get one, I think. And some copper - backing plates is just the sort of thing I wouldn't have remembered until after I had screwed up!
tig not that hard if you have good independent limb control ;)
 

KMM696

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Glad I didn't wait to order - Apex parts kit prices are back up. Got the kit yesterday - this was a nice rifle before it was cut up.

Has anyone found a good parts diagram? I want to inventory what I've got before the parts dry up/disappear.
 

warwickben

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Glad I didn't wait to order - Apex parts kit prices are back up. Got the kit yesterday - this was a nice rifle before it was cut up.

Has anyone found a good parts diagram? I want to inventory what I've got before the parts dry up/disappear.
there's really not that many parts lol. i had to call them and tell them the mag catch they sent was broken.
 
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warwickben

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bending jig showed up from marcolmar firearms saturday ..... was expecting my build kit also. that will be here Monday, so i figure what the hell and de milled the parts.
the cocking tube is easy to remove. if you look at the welds you can just use a band saw and sq it up with a belt sander. i just hold the trunion in a vice and peel the sheet metal off and it will tear around the welds. there rear sight/bolt catch , just use a dremill cut off wheel. hold it in a vice and tap with a mallet or squeeze it tight and the sheet metal will flex allowing you to cut the the rest fo the weld out.









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warwickben

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pictures of the flat, weld kit, sa grip frame, and bending jig.
they include a billet aluminum grip frame in there build kit. they dont tell you the stock grip screw dont not work with it . they use a 1/4-20 screw not included.
there semi shelf is a cool idea since its hidden from the out side.



IMG_6186.JPEGpictures of flat IMG_6187.JPEGIMG_6191.JPEGIMG_6192.JPEG
 

warwickben

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some pictures of the flat being bent up with a video. they dont include any pusher bars when you rent the jig. i had some scrap steel in the shop. make sure you release pressure and move side to side if its not bending evenly.
i feel old and cant figure out how to embed the video lol.
View: https://youtu.be/FcRRnlq0sFU

flat being bent

IMG_6188.JPGIMG_6190.JPG
 

warwickben

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once you have it bent up cut the front and rear tabs off and grind flush, next you'll want to use a combination of screws and the stock take down pins for welding. the take down pins will help with alignment and the screws act as clamps so you can weld. this is how i do hk's and cetme c builds. when possible ill also use the grip frame to help keep things aligned.
the biggest difference is with the magwell. the cetme L uses a metal plate as the rear spine of the mag well vs just sheet metal. so some care is needed to make sure its in the correct position. it can cause mag issuses or not allowing the grip frame or mag realse from going in.
i welded the mag spine in after the trunion so photos slight out of order.
video showing the play, i used a mag to help set it and used a small c clamp and the brass bolt as a clamp. when ever your welding and burn thru can effect moving parts use a copper backing plate. i welded the rear take down pin block first then the trunuion after pressing barrel , trunion seam, magwell front , then the magwell rear.
View: https://youtu.be/mSeyMhpW30I



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warwickben

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im not 100 percent happy with the welds for the rear sight/bolt hold but it is what it is, its some type of casting.
make sure the bolt hold lines up with the cut on the flat. its fireable but not 100 percent done at this point. if you zoom in you can see i didnt fully weld the mag block in. you can see some holes in the flat your meant to weld thru. i didnt fully weld the cocking tube up , or the rear ears of the trunnion . its so if i need todo adjustment to the mag angle or trunion i can remove them with out destroying the flat..



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