CCW Shooting

Originally Posted by Blitz_308
I had the little problem with the next round not going off, thinking I had a jam, I ducked behind the table to clear the gun and yelled for everyone to stay down. I looked down and saw how bad my hands were as I cleared the round out, and stood back up to continue fire. (Looking back on it, I think I realized that I wasn't getting a good grip due to the screwed up hand and neglected to engage the grip safety)

Why I'll NEVER carry a 1911 or a XD for personal defense. He was lucky.
 
I don't follow the issue about the grip safety and hand injury.

First, what's the risk of having both hands disabled like this? Even with his injuries he was able to fire repeatedly although he had a FTF and had to re-rack (which I think he attributes to his inability to grip the gun well enough).

If your hands are so badly mangled that you can't grip it, how are you going to be able to pull a long glock trigger? How is it going to cycle if you can even get off one shot?

I guess even after reading this (and I spent a couple of hours reading a ton of his posts about the incident) I still don't understand the hatred for the grip safety. Even he still carries his new 1911.

Am I just missing something?
 
The grip safety issue is always controversial. Back in the day when the 1911 was being rediscovered by Cooper and the "New School" disciples conventional wisdom was to deactivate it. Later on this was seen as opening a possibility for court action by intentionally deactivation of a safety device. There are grip safeties on the market which essentially keep the safety off when installed. One old time Texas Ranger is said to have tied a leather lace over the butt of his pistol to tie the safety down after being wounded in a gunfight and being unable to grip his 1911 properly.

It is interesting to note that both Browning and Saive (the man who completed the design) dropped the grip safety on the P35 (Hi Power). Some say the grip safety was a US Army Requirement for a pistol to be carried by mounted troops, a sort of belt and suspenders approach with two safeties engaged while others have postulated that the thumb safety was added and the original intent of the pistol was to be carried in condition zero which is to say no thumb safety on, relying just on the grip safety. The actual answer may be lost in the mists of time and the military ended up proscribing condition 3 as the normal mode of carry.

The grip safety remains problematical and is one of the weaknesses of the 1911. The Ballester Molina of 1927, a legitimate Colt licensed variant also eliminated this feature. The area around the grip safety also provided a place for dirt and debris to get inside the pistol.

A grip safety is not necessarily a deal breaker for those who carry a 1911 IMO, but is something that has to be factored in, in any serious consideration in choosing it as an EDC pistol.
 
I love my 1911's, and love carrying them. When you take one to the pistol range and reel the target back your first thought is " Damn, .45 makes a big hole"

But that having been said, one can not help but recognize that the grip safety is just one more thing that can potentially go wrong, at the very worst time, As I read the account of what happened, I could not help but think that if the guy had been carrying my Sig 229, 220 or 226 with short reset triggers, he would have been able to keep shooting and would have had more rounds available to shoot back.
And after that first shot with the 10 lb trigger pull, follow up shots require less than 4 lbs of pressure, which is pretty darn light
 
First, what's the risk of having both hands disabled like this?

it happened here. that's enough of a concern. what if your attacker had a knife and you were sustaining defensive wounds while trying to bat the guy away?

and gripping a grip safety is much different than pulling a glock trigger. they aren't that long, and you can tighten them up in literally three minutes.
 
Getting herded into a back room and proned out on the floor is a really, really bad situation to be in, especially if the perp is a paroled felon with nothing to lose. Heads or tails whether he was going to execute them. These guys are lucky they lived to enjoy their cigars and whiskey another day. Having both hands disabled has to be an extremely rare occurrence, and I think I'll continue to depend on my 1911. But it's got me thinking that my old Star PD .45 has its place, too. It's a 27-ounce 1911 copy without the grip safety, and it's reliable as daybreak.
 
it happened here. that's enough of a concern. what if your attacker had a knife and you were sustaining defensive wounds while trying to bat the guy away?

and gripping a grip safety is much different than pulling a glock trigger. they aren't that long, and you can tighten them up in literally three minutes.

Obviously it happened here and I'll have to take your word on the glock triggers.

This guy had one ftf that he attributes to his limp handing. Wouldn't that be essentially the same with most pistols? I supposed some might have a lighter spring or something that would be more forgiving.

I have read here about some people who have a high grip that doesn't seem to work on the 1911, but I've not seen it personally yet; everyone I hand my gun to fires it without being told about the grip safety.

Anyway, I'm not looking to argue it, I believe that there is an issue. I'm just trying to quantify it in relation to risk and reality and with other guns.... and pray to God that I don't have to deal with an issue like this in my own life.
 
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The only problem I've ever heard about "high grip" on a 1911 of slide bite.
I hold my 1911 two ways. A thumb pointing forwards way I picked up from a few target shooters I met , and saw it in a bunch of videos I watched . my weak hand thumb runs along the bottom of the slide .i mainly do that when I'm trying to get the best groups I can. I'm gripping it pretty high up on the gun.

I also practice holding it in a more natural way the way my hands wrap around it. More or less how I'd grab the gun from a holster . My groups open up but I can dump the mag and hit the paper . So as long as I'm aiming for center mass I'll hit.

I think worrying about the grip safety is kinda mute point tho. I figure if my hand is so messed up I cant squeeze it in . I'm screwed any ways .
It doesn't take that much pressure at all on my cheap Remington r1 to depress. Now if your worried about the grip safety failing that some thing else . My logic is if your worried about the little parts failing on you Get a revolver .
 
OP great read ....... Wound pictures have a lasting impression ... Keep practicing! If you are not then start.

Practice shooting weak hand only and shooting on the move too!

I didn't see anything about how the guy in the story had been training, but Ken Hackathorn is famous for saying:

Under conditions of stress you will rarely attempt any task you don’t have confidence in your ability to do.

Also, I find it interesting that the perp tried to rob 7 guys with a 5-shot revolver! [thinking]
 
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