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Caution about buying Magazines at Mass Gun Show

Mach said:
Just to clarify, NJ does not have a grandfather clause like MA and NY. ANY mag more than 15 rounds in NJ is illegal for the non-LEO required for duty. NJ has prosecuted people for it. Just wanted to clarify that.
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Really? So did the Jersey gun owners have to trash or sell out of state their hicaps? I have an Eagle 30-round mag for my 10/22 that I bought when I was still living there. Just wondering, as it obviously doesn't affect me any more.
 
I do not know if he was selling as an FFL but individuals had a table at the Marlboro show..... Now if I decided to buy would they have asked:
- are you from MA?
- can I please see your LTC A to purchase the hi-caps? Do they ask for appropriate license for purchase of mags?

It was one of those instances where I ask a question and the response did not match up with the mag that I was holding in my hand. (Were some of them marked LEO and some were not? - I don't know....)

Events:
- walk over to table and saw the mags - several looked parkerized green and some were black...
- I asked "Are these LEO marked?" Vendor's response "No"
- Looked at one mag closer and when I turned at an angle to the light, you could faintly see the LEO wording (could not see the whole sentence)
- that was enough for me to just put it down and look at other stuff....

This was my buyer beware moment.....
 
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i think this could apply to more than just gun shows,i saw rebuilt glocks selling with 3 mags(over ten rounds)for a good price at a local gun store.thing is the mags had the metal strip(ambi release)4th generation.owner said dont worry about they cant tell.he isnt liked on this board.
 
I'm normally one to mind my business...but these guys, if they are FFLs are in a key position to screw the rest of us over, due to their non discretion/stupidity.
 
You guys are making me paranoid now. I bought 2 mags but i didnt see any markings on them. They look identical to the 2 i already bought from a local dealer. Only difference is the color, its black instead of gray. Where on the mag are they usually marked?
 
btnh6668 said:
You guys are making me paranoid now. I bought 2 mags but i didnt see any markings on them. They look identical to the 2 i already bought from a local dealer. Only difference is the color, its black instead of gray. Where on the mag are they usually marked?
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-Many mags are not marked, at all- both pre and post ban.

-Some during/post bans have an LE marking on the side of the mag

-Some post bans have a small date code on the front or back of the mag.

-Some pre/post mags have a month/date + cage code + lot number on the side.

Most of the time it's pretty obvious unless you are blind. If you can't find any markings quickly, it's probably unmarked, which means it could be anything.

-Mike
 
I cant find any markings or signs of previous markings on them. I checked for that before i bought it but i just double checked in case i overlooked something. I think im safe.
 
btnh6668 said:
How would the authorities know the difference?
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between what?

Your right I guess there is no way to prove it. As far as anyone knows those are preban mags with new floorplates, springs, and followers. [thinking].

The point is if you are comfortable having those mags, then you could get them yourself online for 10 dollars each. I dont know what you paid at a gun show. But if shops are selling c-product mags at $40 each as preban, that is a little bit crazy.
 
hollewud7 said:
between what?

Your right I guess there is no way to prove it. As far as anyone knows those are preban mags with new floorplates, springs, and followers. [thinking].

The point is if you are comfortable having those mags, then you could get them yourself online for 10 dollars each. I dont know what you paid at a gun show. But if shops are selling c-product mags at $40 each as preban, that is a little bit crazy.
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The two original mags i bought at ZA was $40 each and gray. The two i bought at the marlboro were $25 and black. They both look exactly the same in everyway but the color. Thank you hollewud for the info.
 
Make It In Mass said:
What is stamped on the floorplate? That is typically a distinguishing characteristic.
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That can make a difference, too... Obviously if the manufacturer is someone like cproducts, then the mag is probably new and probably post ban. That
being said, since floorplates are removable, they could come from anywhere, especially if the mag was ever rebuilt.

A lot of floorplates are just a blank piece of metal, though...

-Mike
 
for those you interested here is the chapter and section of the MA general laws that covers this.

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER


CHAPTER 140. LICENSES





SALE OF FIREARMS


Chapter 140: Section 131M. Assault weapon or large capacity feeding device not lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994; sale, transfer or possession; punishment


Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer for purposes of law enforcement; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.
 
ive been duped into the c product scam too. these gunshops must know what they are doing, but could probly care less. i will be bringing mine back. what part of the mag has to be the pre ban part? is there any defintion on this? i've never seen it in the poorly written mgls.
 
No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.[\QUOTE]

Hmmmm.... does this mean lawfully possessed in Massachusetts or lawfully possessed in the US?

Or what does it mean?

Thanks,

Rich
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I was at a local gunshop this weekend and one of the patrons was looking at a package of a couple of SIG mags with some sort of clip to hold them together. It clearly said 30 round on the package. As the guy asks the price, I couldn't keep it in - I just said "Are those pre-ban?"

Gunshop owner smacks himself on the head and takes the package back saying "I can't sell those!"

But I'll bet he would have if I hadn't said anything...
 
richc said:
Hmmmm.... does this mean lawfully possessed in Massachusetts or lawfully possessed in the US?

Or what does it mean?

Thanks,

Rich
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Anywhere. If somebody in Tasmania had them and gave them to you, they're OK as long as they were made before 1994.
 
LenS said:
I've stated it before and will state it again! Caveat emptor!

Many/most of the "new looking" AR mags being sold at the MA gun shows are "felony fodder". Last show a dealer was selling boxes full of LE/Mil marked mags and folks were scoffing them up like nobody's business (he was right beside teh GOAL table).

Most of the Glock hi-caps sold at the gun show are post-ban, but due to Glock's position on them, unless they have the ambi-cut-out, it makes it very difficult for a DA to prosecute (some have inquired of Glock, hoping to prosecute, they went away frustrated). [NOTE: Glock has send me new followers, baseplates and springs for old mags, so it truly is impossible to tell DOB on their mags.]

That said, I did see one dealer selling pre-ban Galil mags that actually were all stamped IMI with dates in the 1980s on them, of course they were $125.00 each!
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I bought some 10 round mags from a Gunbroker auction a while back for my Glock 21. I specifically wanted the 10 round mags because I wanted to make sure they were MA legal.

When my package arrived - the guy had sent me 13 round mags. As I opened the envelope I was a little pissed because the auction had specifically called out that 10 round mags were being sold.

This was from a place that I see quite often selling Glock mags and parts and who claims to attend MA gun shows.

So I called them and told them what was going on - this ended up being a half hour conversation (almost argument) - with me telling him that the mags he sent me were patently illegal in MA. He kept claiming that they were perfectly legal, he sells them all the time at MA gun shows ( he was setting up for the Big E show that coming weekend in fact) - and he had been told by MA state troopers directly - that selling mags with capacities of more than 10 rounds was perfectly legal.

I ended up using the resources here at NES to find the relevant laws around high cap mags - and sent it all off to him. And I demanded to get the 10 round mags I had originally ordered.

The basic thrust of this whole exchange was this: the MA laws are too complex. The vast majority of gun owners can't figure them out. The dealers can't figure them out. And even the police can't figure them out. This guy actually argued with me that 13 round mags (new in the wrapper mfg post ban) - were perfectly legal. The basic effect of all of this is that the law is toothless because people will constantly break it out of ignorance, or just because they want to.

I have looked all over the Glock mags I have from all different calibers and have never found anything that would seem to indicate when they were made.
 
The "tube" or body of the magazine. Everything else can be replaced.
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That has never been the case for the now-extinct federal law which clearly allowed the replacement of tubes.

Do you have a statutory cite or case law that establishes that such is indeed the case in MA under the current law?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
That has never been the case for the now-extinct federal law which clearly allowed the replacement of tubes.

Do you have a statutory cite or case law that establishes that such is indeed the case in MA under the current law?
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I doubt that many on this board would like to be the test subject for that theory. Also just because it was federal law doesn't mean it will apply to MA either.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
That has never been the case for the now-extinct federal law which clearly allowed the replacement of tubes.

Do you have a statutory cite or case law that establishes that such is indeed the case in MA under the current law?
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Why no I don't. (But you knew that!) [thinking]

I was foolishly attempting to apply logic and critical thinking where we are talking about MA firearms law. My bad. [wink]
 
This is a great discussion.

I've been selling some preban mags lately that I came into and I'm very careful to make sure that I don't break any laws or put any board members in a bad position.

I've had people try to purchase from areas where it's not legal to own these mags. I've also had people refuse to answer if they have a LTC A (I used to live in MA and I know what that means) and I have refused to sell to them. One of these guys, as it turns out, has contributed to this thread but I am not going to name names specifically. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but who knows if it's a sting? I'm trying to go an extra mile to A) make sure I'm selling within the purview of the law and B) get prebans to states where it matters.
 
clinotus said:
I'm normally one to mind my business...but these guys, if they are FFLs are in a key position to screw the rest of us over, due to their non discretion/stupidity.
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IMO there is kind of a line in the sand. It depends on how far the FFL is willing to go to "protect" an unknowing customer from "harm".

Now, some of the stuff I see in this thread would piss me off- if an FFL says "No, these are unmarked" and then I see paint covering up the
marking, It's pretty obvious they're trying to intentionally take me for a ride. On the other hand, if they give me some bloviation like "Yeah, they
are marked, but it doesn't mean anything" or they say "I don't know, look at them" (and then I see markings) then I simply don't buy that product, and I'm not going to get in a protracted argument about it with the dealer. There simply isn't enough time.

As far as I'm concerned, though, it's not their job to protect me. As a gun owner in MA, compliance with the law falls on my shoulders. It's one of
those things you basically have to accept when you get a license. If the MA gun owner can't deal with this issue, then they're likely going to have
trouble with the FAR thornier ones- eg, safe storage, etc. The laws in this state suck, but that should be readily apparent from the moment
the person applies for their first LTC.

If I was to excoriate any shop that didn't completely understand the law in some little regard or another, I'd run out of shops to go to. As long as
the shop doesn't try to intentionally defraud me, I'm not going to get in a knock down drag out legal argument with them. It's simply not worth my
time. I consider it one step below the old "arguing on the internet" adage. [laugh] Of course, everyone's threshold for this kind of thing is
different. What one of us thinks is OK another may not, etc.

This is why it's imperative that anyone who is a gun owner in this state take the time to do a little bit of research on their own about these sorts of
things. Then they can draw their own conclusions. Yeah, things get dicey with stuff like unmarked mags, but you can usually use deductive
reasoning/logic to see whether or not something is reasonably safe to buy or not.

-Mike
 
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I asked this question to an LEO instructor during my MPOC academy: "How do we know if a magazine is pre-ban or not?"
His reply: "We don't. And we're not trained to know, just like we're not trained to inspect motorcycle helmets that are may or may not be DOT approved. This law, I see mostly as a "tack on" charge to already existing firearms charges. You think you have time to bring charges on every guy you see at the range with a hi-cap mag? You simply won't have the time and the burden of proof is on you. I wouldn't waste my time with this kind of stuff. Like I said, it's more or less a "tack on" charge".

The assistant DA that taught part of our criminal law block said something very similar when I asked her about it. The point is, don't be a dope and go around bragging about how many hi-cap, post ban mags you may or may not have. If you do, then you might end up like this guy - http://www.masslive.com/news/index....gory=Crime+category=Easthampton+category=Ware
 
Adventurer_96 said:
This is a great discussion.

I've been selling some preban mags lately that I came into and I'm very careful to make sure that I don't break any laws or put any board members in a bad position.

I've had people try to purchase from areas where it's not legal to own these mags. I've also had people refuse to answer if they have a LTC A (I used to live in MA and I know what that means) and I have refused to sell to them. One of these guys, as it turns out, has contributed to this thread but I am not going to name names specifically. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but who knows if it's a sting? I'm trying to go an extra mile to A) make sure I'm selling within the purview of the law and B) get prebans to states where it matters.
Click to expand...

How do gun shows enter the picture? Are the rules/regs different? Am asking because I may want to go to one in the next year to sell some items that might get decimated by going to a dealer for an outright sale.[grin]
 

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