Caution about buying Magazines at Mass Gun Show

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Guys, I post this as a caution, just to inform, not criticize! If you are happy with your purchase more power to you. I’d just hate to see/hear anyone getting in trouble over our @!#$ed up state gun restrictions. I noticed a lot of people excited about being able to pick up so called "Refurbished" Pre Ban AR mags at the recent Mass gun show. Unlike selling Mass banned guns, mags are not controlled and monitored by the state and local dealers in the same way as guns. The burden is on you to know what you're buying, if you're caught with mags in violation of Mass restrictions you'll pay the price! In recent years I've seen people selling new Glock, AR, and other mags at the shows. Mass residents are thrilled to be able to finally get their hands on hi capacity magazines at reasonable prices, not knowing (or caring) that these are new production, NOT Mass legal. There are no stamped markings on these mags since it’s not required in most states now but there are differences so LEOs can distinguish these from Pre Ban mags. Just because someone is selling mags at a gun show doesn’t mean they are legal in our state, EVEN if they tell you they’re okay. Just ask yourself, why are no in state dealers selling these mags? If a Mass dealer and saw someone selling like new AR mags (with Magpuls no less) for $20 don’t you think they would buy the guy’s entire stock up on sight? Hey, if I’m wrong, then you are lucky to have found a bargain in this twisted state of ours, but if you’re wrong you might not be so lucky.
 
P.S. - If you want to get real pre ban AR mags try the exchange forums on http://www.ar15.com/ but again be cautious as post ban mags are sold there also. But you can find NIB pre bans there. Tip: Look for those with date stamps or packaging/wrappers that have pre ban dates.
 
I'll admit... I had these same questions myself at the (my first) show yesterday.

I'll also admit I consider myself to be an overly paranoid law abiding citizen :)

I bought some new in wrapper mags from the 80s from a seller on ar15.com because of my paranoia and photographed them before I took them out of the dated bags which I save. (maybe overkill but I have no interest in "test case")

A few of the mags I saw yesterday looked brand new, had "magpul" rebuild kits installed, and were being sold for almost less than total cost of preban body, rebuild kit, and new spray coat.

I'm the first to say the magazine birthday law is stupid, and as buyers... do what you want. I took the "they may consider me guilty until proven innocent in this f**ked up state" which I disagree with on principle but... I will also say that if you want to be safer and spend some time digging online you can get mags like I did for around the same price with a better paper trail.
 
To re emphasize your point which is always asked on this forum. The laws regarding what are compliant Mass hi cap mags and what are compliant Mass handguns are mutually exlusive.

Possession of post ban hi cap mags is a felony. It doesn't matter what gun they can or can not be used on.

Having said that, you are innocent until proven guilty. Many unmarked new hi cap Glock mags for instance, which can not be determined to be post bean (ie ambi mag release design, or leo restriction) have no way of conclusively being determined to be post ban because this same design was issued pre ban. Glock has come out and indicated this.

So if the manufacturer can not conclusively confirm their product is a post ban mag, it's pretty unlikely that you could be found in violation.
 
Yes, it's almost impossible in some cases to know the difference, so to the OP, it's a good reminder for everyone.

That said, the best way to stay on the good side of the law is to not do something stupid which brings you under the light of you local and state LEOs. I think that covers most everyone here on NES. I would hope anyway.
 
New "refurbished" mags are most likely new C-Products sold at a hyper inflated price to the unsuspecting masses in MA due to no date stamp on the bodies last time I checked.You can order them directly from C-Products with Magpul enhancements I believe.

Couple years ago I seen brand new $9.00 C-Products mags (When bought in quantities of 100) being sold for $30.00 as pre-ban mags in everyones favorite shop.They didn't even bother to switch out the floorplates [thinking]
 
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I've stated it before and will state it again! Caveat emptor!

Many/most of the "new looking" AR mags being sold at the MA gun shows are "felony fodder". Last show a dealer was selling boxes full of LE/Mil marked mags and folks were scoffing them up like nobody's business (he was right beside teh GOAL table).

Most of the Glock hi-caps sold at the gun show are post-ban, but due to Glock's position on them, unless they have the ambi-cut-out, it makes it very difficult for a DA to prosecute (some have inquired of Glock, hoping to prosecute, they went away frustrated). [NOTE: Glock has send me new followers, baseplates and springs for old mags, so it truly is impossible to tell DOB on their mags.]

That said, I did see one dealer selling pre-ban Galil mags that actually were all stamped IMI with dates in the 1980s on them, of course they were $125.00 each!
 
New "refurbished" mags are most likely new C-Products sold at a hyper inflated price to the unsuspecting masses in MA due to no date stamp on the bodies last time I checked.You can order them directly from C-Products with Magpul enhancements I believe.

Couple years ago I seen brand new $9.00 C-Products mags (When bought in quantities of 100) being sold for $30.00 as pre-ban mags in everyones favorite shop.They didn't even bother to switch out the floorplates [thinking]

I saw those in multiple shops being sold as new pre-bans! [thinking]

To back up Greg's comments, at the time he's referring to, I received an Email from a Fed LEO saying basically "hmm, saw these in a gunshop for sale as new pre-ban and even the markings on the boxes was IDENTICAL to what we had shipped to our agency recently directly from the same mfr!"

Yup, they were all "felony fodder". [C-Products wasn't in business in 1994, so no real pre-bans exist.]

When that great group buy went on at ARFcom (I think they paid ~$7 each), I picked up 15 genuine pre-ban mags for $154 shipped from a guy who bought the C-mags to replace his old pre-bans. So you can get them and play safe that you are actually buying pre-bans if that is what you want.
 
I know the markings or lack thereof on Glock mags- but I've never seen date markings on AR mags. Do they exist? I got some Colt mags (not at show) that are in great shape with new followers (green) but not any date stamps at all.
 
I know the markings or lack thereof on Glock mags- but I've never seen date markings on AR mags. Do they exist? I got some Colt mags (not at show) that are in great shape with new followers (green) but not any date stamps at all.

I've seen SOME AR mags with date-stamps, mostly post-Fed-ban dates. But there are literally metric tons of AR mags w/o date stamps on them.
 
I have a question. Being a holder of a Green card "Machine gun" Licenses. I was told that NFA rules apply when it comes to Mags. Is this true?
 
I was told that when buying anything for your Full auto weapon that you fall under federal rules. Say you own a Full auto Tommy gun with a drum or stick mag. When do state rules apply and federal don't when buying another drum or stick mag. That is why I am asking
 
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I was told that when buying anything for your Full auto weapon that you fall under federal rules. Say you own a Full auto Tommy gun with a drum or stick mag that state rules do apply and federal do when buying another drum or stick mag. That is why I am asking

State law preempts the Federal in that regard. In other words the federal law is only in compliance with the state law, if the state says no its still a no.
 
The fact that a company like C Products didnt exist before the ban to me shows that these are post ban. Argument could be made that the lower was a replacement. SOulds like these mags are not what I want hanging around. Considering I was buying true mil spec prebans from AR15 EE for between 16 and $20 seems crazy to risk anything.

Problem is, the average guy is going to take a seller at his word. A vendor selling prebans with unmarked bodies is likey to be trusted by most.
 
I know the markings or lack thereof on Glock mags- but I've never seen date markings on AR mags. Do they exist? I got some Colt mags (not at show) that are in great shape with new followers (green) but not any date stamps at all.

Here is a FAQ on identifying Colt magazines

http://www.fulton-armory.com/ARMags.htm

For the most part, if you stick with purchasing pre-ban magazines from Colt, Simmonds and Adventure Line, they will most likely be pre-ban.
 
That said, the best way to stay on the good side of the law is to not do something stupid which brings you under the light of you local and state LEOs.
***DISCLAIMER - I would NOT, and am NOT advising anyone to break the law ***
Rockrivr1 hit the nail on the head here. If you don't do anything to get yourself scrutinized, this will never be an issue for you. It's not like there are cruisers parked at gun clubs inspecting everybody's magazines. In fact, I would bet a vast majority of LEO's wouldn't know a pre-ban from a post-ban mag anyway, nor do they care (contrary to our beliefs they DO have better things to worry about). As long as your not flaunting obvious post-ban products, i.e.: wraithmaker drums or other hicaps for a firearm that didn't even exist before the ban you should be fine. But as I've said in the past, I don't take any chances because I don't want to be the test case, so I wouldn't advise anyone else to do so either. If you have something you think can be questioned and it worries you, just get rid of it. Nobody's going to come looking for you if they find post ban hi-caps at the local land fill[wink]
 
I have a question. Being a holder of a Green card "Machine gun" Licenses. I was told that NFA rules apply when it comes to Mags. Is this true?

I am a green card holder as well and I will tell you that the AWB that MA still has in effect means that the hi cap mag rule DOES in fact still apply to us. There is nothing anywhere that says it does not. The green card we possess says, "License to Possess a Machine gun" not hi cap mags. It allows us to own and shoot the MG but does not apply to the mags. This is an example of another foolish MA law that is about as dumb as "boobs on a bug" and most LEOs wont have an answer for you because they dont know.

now having said that, there is not any Cop around that is going to hassle you about mags for your legal machine gun at a gun range once you break out your green card and ATF form 4 paperwork and do a so called "document dump" on them. Most Cops have no clue about the legal ownership of Machine Guns because no one ever educates them on it and there mouth hits the deck when you bust out your green card and F4. The last thing they are concerned about is your hi cap mags for your MG. They are more concerned about your MG and if (and how in a lot of cases. LOL) its legal. Now on that note I have yet to find any Cop hassle me about any mags either and if they are not marked "LE or Government Use Only" there is not much they can do unless they REALLY WANT TO SPEND THE TIME going back to the station and researching the company and their distinguishing markings on their mags. They have better things to do than that. As long as you show them your Class A / Green card or whatever and tell them they are pre ban and are an upstanding citizen doing nothing illegal and the mags are not marked LE use and you bought them in MA (legally) you should not have any problems. Any cop that has half a brain when it comes to whats legal and whats not legal in MA for mags (and let me tell you there are not many of them out there that know) are looking for obvious post ban "MARKED" mags with the LE / Government marks on them. Now does this mean that it could not happen.....????? of course not, maybe there is some Cop out there that has nothing else on his plate and does not answer his calls and just sits around waiting for some neighbor of a gun range to call and complain about gunfire at a legit range and go and give a member a hard time on his "unmarked mags" and try to prove that he is lying and will go to that length but I have yet to see one. Just make sure you buy mags at gun shows in MA and that they are not marked and you SHOULD be ok.

I have never worried about it.

thats just me.

Rob
 
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There were a few vendors selling refurbished "post ban" mags that were clearly not. Of the 20 mags I purchaced in Marlborough, half of them are stamped LE/Mil only, the others have dates on them of 03-05. To those of you who have to worry about the dates, I'd take a good look at them.
 
Always good to err on the side of caution, even if the LEO's don't know what they're looking at. Never be in a hurry to become a "legal lab rat" as Cross-X says.

Fortunately, there are some good sources of information out there to help establish your legality. For example - if you own mags made by a manufacture who went out of business before the 1994 AWB went into effect, that's probably a good sign.

Here's one helpful link:

http://magfaq.tripod.com/mags1.htm

I bought some pre-bans in August from www.ar15.com and was very happy with the deal. They were Parsons Industries 30-round mags, STILL IN THE PLASTIC WRAPPER! And the wrappers were stamped with the government contract number and date of manufacture - in this case, all ten mags were made in 1985. By the way, got these for the Pre-Obama price of $8.50 each. All of the empty wrappers are still in my ammo locker for future reference.

When I decided to grab some more in December, I decided to stay with Parsons if at all possible. This time they were used but in decent shape, not in the wrapper, and I paid $14.00 each. Again, I was pretty happy with the deal, given the price jump post-election.

If you look at the Equipment Exchange on ar15.com, you'll find:
-Mags are generally cheaper than what you can purchase locally - even with shipping.
-There are good people out there who understand what it's like to live in a Communist State like Massachusetts or New Jersey, and try to steer pre-ban's our way.
-There are ALOT of pre-bans with date stamps.

As others have posted previously - BE CAREFUL! With a little research you can find the pre-ban's you're looking for, and at a reasonable price.
 
-There are good people out there who understand what it's like to live in a Communist State like Massachusetts or New Jersey, and try to steer pre-ban's our way.
.

Just to clarify, NJ does not have a grandfather clause like MA and NY. ANY mag more than 15 rounds in NJ is illegal for the non-LEO required for duty. NJ has prosecuted people for it. Just wanted to clarify that.

I bought some pre-94 AR mags, stripped them down and sprayed them with permaslik-G and put gen 3 magpul followers in them. they look brand new after that.
 
For my preban AR mags, I was lucky to find a batch of new (not wrapped) Labelle Industries mags. They were a USGI supplier but changed their name to D&H (which they operate under now) in 1994, so all Labelle mags are pre-bans.
 
There definitely were post ban, large cap magazines being sold at the Marlboro show. One vendor said he had "brand new" USGI M14 mags if I was interested. Another had obviously brand new AR mags.
 
Saturday, A fellow shopper spied some 30 round AR mags that had a black spray-on coating of some sort.

The coating ALMOST obliterated the "GOVT/LEO use only" stamping on the body.

Be careful out there.
 
New "refurbished" mags are most likely new C-Products sold at a hyper inflated price to the unsuspecting masses in MA due to no date stamp on the bodies last time I checked.You can order them directly from C-Products with Magpul enhancements I believe.

Couple years ago I seen brand new $9.00 C-Products mags (When bought in quantities of 100) being sold for $30.00 as pre-ban mags in everyones favorite shop.They didn't even bother to switch out the floorplates [thinking]

+1000000

how easy would it be for anyone to buy new c products, and change out the floorplates for a cost of a little over 10 bucks a mag?
 
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