Cash only Rant *Updated*

one-eyed Jack

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Last year I needed a large willow tree cut down and taken away because it was close to the house and rotting inside. I was worried about the next wind storm. I got a quote which looked good, but the guy wanted 4-6 weeks lead time. I told him that payment would be in $100 bills and a cash tip for his helpers. He was here in less than a week. Cash is king. Jack.
 
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that one is probably more due to keeping the earnings "off the books" though (or else the check would have been sufficient). Smaller business don't like CC's because of the ~2% fee placed on it.
Of course it is.

People do not understand that when you pay a guy 15 bucks on the books, it really costs the employer 30 bucks or more.

Off the books? Different story.

Same goes for a myriad of other costs.
 

RumRunner

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I'm sure that the IRS and DOR will be greatly impressed by that . . . NOT!

I read not long ago that the IRS calculates what they THINK a waiter/waitress should be making in tips and expects that amount or more to be declared. If it isn't then they assess it and expect taxes on that amount! Not my field of interest (I put all restaurant bills on cc with tip added), so I haven't done any research on this, and don't intend to either.
This is true. Was talking about it not long ago with a waitress when I paid tip in cash. She explained that if she didn't declare enough that they would tax her on expected tip earnings anyway. So there isn't as much room for not declaring tips as a lot of people think.
 

blindfire

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This is true. Was talking about it not long ago with a waitress when I paid tip in cash. She explained that if she didn't declare enough that they would tax her on expected tip earnings anyway. So there isn't as much room for not declaring tips as a lot of people think.
As if I need to say it...but NSFW language for anyone who hasn't seen this classic!

 

atmay

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I always tip in cash, but I make sure to write "CASH" on the tip line, instead of "0.00", because I don't want someone posting my receipt as an example of a deadbeat.



Likelihood of that happening is near zero, unless you're in a state that requires tipped employees to make at least the same as non-tipped minimum wage.

When I managed a full service restaurant, wait staff made more per hour than I did.
There is no state in the Union where tipped employees are not entitled to the same hourly wage as non-tipped employees.

7 states, and several territories, require customarily tipped employees to receive the same minimum wage as all other employees, before tips.

The other 43 states use the tip-credit system (which is also federal law, as part of the Fair Labor Standards Act), with 26 of those requiring a minimum employer contribution greater than that required by federal law ($2.13).

The tip-credit system varies from state to state, but generally, an employee’s calculated hourly earnings cannot be below the required minimum. Federally, this is calculated by dividing weekly earnings by weekly hours (i.e. if you work as a tipped employee for 40 hours in a week, you must earn at least $290 in that week. If you earn $100 in tips that week, your employer must pay you $190. At a minimum, your employer must pay you at least $85.20)
 
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No, I'm the other way around. I don't want to be tracked and pay cash for everything. Seriously you don't have $5 on you for a cup of coffee?
My opinion is, every time i use a card, that is one more chance for identity theft
If I dont have cash...then I wont buy it! Victim of CC fraud several times. Guess I'm unlucky!
 

appraiser

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This is true. Was talking about it not long ago with a waitress when I paid tip in cash. She explained that if she didn't declare enough that they would tax her on expected tip earnings anyway. So there isn't as much room for not declaring tips as a lot of people think.
IIRC for tax purposes, the IRS assumes you make 7% tips on your gross sales, and your employer will withhold and submit on your behalf at least the minimum tipped worker wage plus 7% of gross sales, or minimum wage whichever is higher. What sucks is they may have to tip out the bartender, busboy and others out of their tips.
 

rep308

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my best story:

6-7 winters ago my roof had lots of snow and ice dams and water was leaking into 3 of my rooms on the top floor. I look out my window and see three guys shoveling off my neighbors roof. I ask them how much to do mine and they say "$600 but we are booked and you'll have to call our boss". I go home, pull $600 out of the safe and say "I've got $600 cash right here". They say "we'll be over in a half hour but don't tell the boss"

2 hour later my roof was cleared and water stopped dripping in, try that with a credit card
 

KBCraig

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There is no state in the Union where tipped employees are not entitled to the same hourly wage as non-tipped employees.
Point taken; what I should have used as an example was a Fight For 15 state.

No tipped server (almost) anywhere makes less than that, unless they work for some skimming scam operation that requires kickbacks.
 

KBCraig

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IIRC for tax purposes, the IRS assumes you make 7% tips on your gross sales, and your employer will withhold and submit on your behalf at least the minimum tipped worker wage plus 7% of gross sales, or minimum wage whichever is higher. What sucks is they may have to tip out the bartender, busboy and others out of their tips.
The percentage has varied over the years. Back in my restaurant days (which is when it was almost all cash, and 10% was considered standard for good service), the servers would gather around the calculator every night with their tabs to figure out and then declare exactly the minimum. I warned them against doing that, because it was too obvious and would send up a red flag to the IRS and trigger an audit, but they didn't listen.

A couple of years later, the IRS started doing exactly that. Did they go after big tax cheats? No, they went after wait staff, barbers, and beauticians... all relatively low income, all cash, tipped operations.
 

AHM

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6-7 winters ago my roof had lots of snow and ice dams and water was leaking into 3 of my rooms on the top floor. I ... see three guys shoveling off my neighbors roof. ... I ... say "I've got $600 cash right here". ...

2 hour later my roof was cleared and water stopped dripping in, try that with a credit card
 
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I always carry some cash with me all the time. So I have no issue of some business its cash only. I prefer to use cash but cc's are convenient. But the majority of people who use cc's always carry a balance. I read about a study some time ago and the study showed that Americans average 15k in outstanding cc debt. And though some people like myself never carry a balance, that is a rare occurrence. The cash back that some of these companies offer is largely offset by interest if there account isn't kept current.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Have to agree. If they don't take CCs then they should have a big sign on the front door saying so. Mom and Pop places I can understand but let people know. For me I get annoyed with retail locations that don't take American Express. I use mine for all purchases as I rack up some good points with their Maximum Rewards Gold Card. I've paid for two vacations using points so for me the yearly fee is worth it.
Acceptance of AMEX is an indication you are dealing with a high margin vendor.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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Forgot I started this thread. On Saturday I just used $307 in cash back rewards to wipe out my balance on my TD Bank Card. Kinda cool when I got paid from work I was able to put $300 extra in my savings account rather than pay off the card with my paycheck Yea you hardcore CC haters keep using cash for everything, your fighting a good fight! LMAO
 

fencer

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No, they went after wait staff, barbers, and beauticians... all relatively low income, all cash, tipped operations.
My barber easily makes 150k per year. All of it cash... and she is a one man shop. Shop owners with multiple chairs to rent out make more than some lawyers.
 

CrackPot

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Acceptance of AMEX is an indication you are dealing with a high margin vendor.
Maybe. 20 years ago I would agree with your statement. Maybe even 10 years ago. Not as much a guarantee anymore.

There are two classes of CC processors. The traditional and the modern (.com). The traditional would require the vendor to sign up and then individually sign agreements with every brand of CC. This is why you would see MC/Visa and not Amex or Discover. Fee structures are wildly different by processor. They are wildly different by individual card. When you process that Visa, you have no idea what you will get charged for fees. If it is a high reward card with cash back to the buyer, then you might get charged an extra 2% to cover that benefit. Debit cards you might get charged just a transaction fee and no % of the amount. Good luck.

Modern processors take ALL cards and charge you the same % for every transaction. Typically just under 3% for everything. The processor makes out on debit cards and no-frill CC. They might lose money on Amex or high feature cards. Overall they make money based on the distribution of card types.

A shop accepting Amex today likely means they used a modern processor (square, intuit, etc). They bake in the 3% cost into their margin calculations or explicitly offer cash discounts to cover it.

Traditional CC processors are a nightmare for any business that is not high volume. Without high volume you would be overwhelmed by the fixed costs (monthly fees). Modern processors are truly ala cart. You only pay a fee when you swipe a card.
 

Super99Z

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Forgot I started this thread. On Saturday I just used $307 in cash back rewards to wipe out my balance on my TD Bank Card. Kinda cool when I got paid from work I was able to put $300 extra in my savings account rather than pay off the card with my paycheck Yea you hardcore CC haters keep using cash for everything, your fighting a good fight! LMAO
I would say the biggest problem facing our country is Americans have no idea how business works.
 

CrackPot

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Forgot I started this thread. On Saturday I just used $307 in cash back rewards to wipe out my balance on my TD Bank Card. Kinda cool when I got paid from work I was able to put $300 extra in my savings account rather than pay off the card with my paycheck Yea you hardcore CC haters keep using cash for everything, your fighting a good fight! LMAO
I use cash at all small businesses and plastic at all big box stores and online. They both have their place. I only use plastic at a small business if they have pissed me off somehow. That is rare because I would usually not give them my business instead.

Sure, cash back is great. Don’t kid yourself that you are not paying for it. It’s baked into the margins you are charged.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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I use cash at all small businesses and plastic at all big box stores and online. They both have their place. I only use plastic at a small business if they have pissed me off somehow. That is rare because I would usually not give them my business instead.

Sure, cash back is great. Don’t kid yourself that you are not paying for it. It’s baked into the margins you are charged.
Ok you got me curious. If I go into a restaurant and buy Dinner for $150 and get 3% cash back on that by using my CC and pay cash for the tip instead of using $180 cash for food and 20% tip how am I losing? If I go into Market Basket and use my CC for $300 in groceries and get back 2% cash back rather than fork over 3 Crisp 100 bills how am I losing again? I admit I suck at Math and Economics but I’m lost on what your saying in regards to “Paying for it” Sorry but NOBODY is going to tell me that what I’m doing is a bad play. I pay off the CC twice a month and pay ZERO interest every freaking Month so please tell me how this doesn’t make 100% sense.
 
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Ok you got me curious. If I go into a restaurant and buy Dinner for $150 and get 3% cash back on that by using my CC and pay cash for the tip instead of using $180 cash for food and 20% tip how am I losing? If I go into Market Basket and use my CC for $300 in groceries and get back 2% cash back rather than fork over 3 Crisp 100 bills how am I losing again? I admit I suck at Math and Economics but I’m lost on what your saying in regards to “Paying for it” Sorry but NOBODY is going to tell me that what I’m doing is a bad play. I pay off the CC twice a month and pay ZERO interest every freaking Month so please tell me how this doesn’t make 100% sense.
This post reminds me of the undersized lobster who goes into the trap, pigs out, gets hauled to the surface and thrown back into the ocean because he’s too small.

What could go wrong?
 
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RumRunner

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Ok you got me curious. If I go into a restaurant and buy Dinner for $150 and get 3% cash back on that by using my CC and pay cash for the tip instead of using $180 cash for food and 20% tip how am I losing? If I go into Market Basket and use my CC for $300 in groceries and get back 2% cash back rather than fork over 3 Crisp 100 bills how am I losing again? I admit I suck at Math and Economics but I’m lost on what your saying in regards to “Paying for it” Sorry but NOBODY is going to tell me that what I’m doing is a bad play. I pay off the CC twice a month and pay ZERO interest every freaking Month so please tell me how this doesn’t make 100% sense.
I agree. I use cc and pay off at the end of each month. I get my point/cash back, and all is well. I made out on my purchases by not using cash. But I also get what others are saying, the vendors you use build that in, so they are not losing. But it doesn't change the fact that I am ahead because I was going to pay the same amount cash or cc. Now this may differ if you can shop at places that may offer cash discounts, but very few will.

ETA: I also get extra interest on my money by keeping it in my bank for the month before I pay off the card.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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This post reminds me of the undersized lobster who goes into the trap, pigs out, gets hauled to the surface and thrown back into the ocean because he’s too small.

What could go wrong?
Your post reminds me of “You can bring the Mule to the watering hole but you can’t force him to drink” LOL please continue, I’m enjoying the laughter this AM
 

CrackPot

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Ok you got me curious. If I go into a restaurant and buy Dinner for $150 and get 3% cash back on that by using my CC and pay cash for the tip instead of using $180 cash for food and 20% tip how am I losing? If I go into Market Basket and use my CC for $300 in groceries and get back 2% cash back rather than fork over 3 Crisp 100 bills how am I losing again? I admit I suck at Math and Economics but I’m lost on what your saying in regards to “Paying for it” Sorry but NOBODY is going to tell me that what I’m doing is a bad play. I pay off the CC twice a month and pay ZERO interest every freaking Month so please tell me how this doesn’t make 100% sense.
Market basket is a big box. The T.G.I. Friday’s is another big vendor. Pay by CC. Makes sense. The local Greek restaurant with the waitress with a great pair, pay cash. The owner feels he can’t compete with the Applebee’s if he charges for cc use, but he is slowly going out of business. Assuming you want to look at those tatas next year too, pay cash.

Or don’t. Be a happy millennial and in a couple years when only Denny’s and Texas Roadhouse are available to eat out you know why.

But but but I got my 2% back so I could buy more THC vape cartridges...

CC cost money to pay the middleman. Just because you can’t see the impact of your actions does not mean they don’t exist. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear...
 

SHOCKNAWE

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Market basket is a big box. The T.G.I. Friday’s is another big vendor. Pay by CC. Makes sense. The local Greek restaurant with the waitress with a great pair, pay cash. The owner feels he can’t compete with the Applebee’s if he charges for cc use, but he is slowly going out of business. Assuming you want to look at those tatas next year too, pay cash.

Or don’t. Be a happy millennial and in a couple years when only Denny’s and Texas Roadhouse are available to eat out you know why.

But but but I got my 2% back so I could buy more THC vape cartridges...

CC cost money to pay the middleman. Just because you can’t see the impact of your actions does not mean they don’t exist. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear...
But But But not my Friggen Problem, I’m 49 so forget your millennial fresh mouth talk. We can compare bank accounts anytime and you will quickly want to forget about giving me your bullshit financial advice.
 

CrackPot

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But But But not my Friggen Problem, I’m 49 so forget your millennial fresh mouth talk. We can compare bank accounts anytime and you will quickly want to forget about giving me your bullshit financial advice.
In the narrow view of “all I care about is me and what I can see and touch” you make good sense. Where does that 2% cash back come from? Must be the same place Bernie Sanders gets money to pay for universal health, college and cell phones for everyone.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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In the narrow view of “all I care about is me and what I can see and touch” you make good sense. Where does that 2% cash back come from? Must be the same place Bernie Sanders gets money to pay for universal health, college and cell phones for everyone.
Maybe it comes from the CC bank account that is funded by interest that people pay for not being responsible with their cards? I don’t know and don’t give a shit, I’m not trying to save the world. I take care of myself and my loved ones first since nobody else will right? I pay my taxes and work full time and that helps fund all the bullshit money that goes around in the country to take care of good and bad shit whether I like it or not. I don’t steal or commit fraud, I play by the rules and try to benefit anyway I can.
 

drgrant

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Ok you got me curious. If I go into a restaurant and buy Dinner for $150 and get 3% cash back on that by using my CC and pay cash for the tip instead of using $180 cash for food and 20% tip how am I losing? If I go into Market Basket and use my CC for $300 in groceries and get back 2% cash back rather than fork over 3 Crisp 100 bills how am I losing again? I admit I suck at Math and Economics but I’m lost on what your saying in regards to “Paying for it” Sorry but NOBODY is going to tell me that what I’m doing is a bad play. I pay off the CC twice a month and pay ZERO interest every freaking Month so please tell me how this doesn’t make 100% sense.
Lol of course it makes sense but that 3% doesn't come out of thin air. The processor is raping the person taking the card, who in turn often ended up charging you a higher price, etc. At the box store / gas station level the rape cost is mostly absorbed via economy of scale (and cheaper rates negotiated with the processors) but smaller businesses don't have that advantage. At gun shops I get a hell of a lot more than 3% off for cash... often 5-8% which tells me the rape is more than that in some cases....

-Mike
 

s4mt3k

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weak rant - resurrected thread - tinfoil - my way or the highway... yep, I'm on NES

Be like water; flow through the cracks... Keep options on yourself (cc, cash, whatever floats ur boat), don't sweat the details, imagine if you just moved on to more important things and didn't give this "interaction" much thought, better no?

 
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CrackPot

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Lol of course it makes sense but that 3% doesn't come out of thin air. The processor is raping the person taking the card, who in turn often ended up charging you a higher price, etc. At the box store / gas station level the rape cost is mostly absorbed via economy of scale (and cheaper rates negotiated with the processors) but smaller businesses don't have that advantage. At gun shops I get a hell of a lot more than 3% off for cash... often 5-8% which tells me the rape is more than that in some cases....

-Mike
See post #347 above on how CC processing works/costs (in my experience). Yes, it can be serious fees if they use a traditional CC processor and you have a fancy CC. Those nice 2%-5% cash back cards hit the vendor directly with traditional CC processors. The modern processors will be the same regardless as they buffer the variability.
 
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