Cash only Rant *Updated*

bfm

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"illegal"? really? point me to the law either in MGL or in USC. Can't? Not surprised.

At most it is a contractual agreement between the seller and the processor which is civil, not criminal, hence not "illegal". words matter.
Section 28A: Cardholder discounts; surcharges; finance charge


Section 28A. (a)(1) With respect to a credit card which may be used for extensions of credit in sales transactions in which the seller is a person other than the card issuer, the card issuer may not, by contract or otherwise, prohibit any such seller from offering a discount to a cardholder to induce the cardholder to pay cash, check or similar means rather than use a credit card.

(2) No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check or similar means.

(b) With respect to any sales transaction, any discount from the regular price offered by the seller for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check or other means not involving the use of an open-end-credit plan or a credit card shall not constitute a finance charge under section four if such discount is offered to all prospective buyers and its availability is disclosed clearly and conspicuously.
 

CrackPot

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Section 28A: Cardholder discounts; surcharges; finance charge


Section 28A. (a)(1) With respect to a credit card which may be used for extensions of credit in sales transactions in which the seller is a person other than the card issuer, the card issuer may not, by contract or otherwise, prohibit any such seller from offering a discount to a cardholder to induce the cardholder to pay cash, check or similar means rather than use a credit card.

(2) No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check or similar means.

(b) With respect to any sales transaction, any discount from the regular price offered by the seller for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check or other means not involving the use of an open-end-credit plan or a credit card shall not constitute a finance charge under section four if such discount is offered to all prospective buyers and its availability is disclosed clearly and conspicuously.
Can anyone recommend the best way to prepare Crow? Does it go well with fava beans?

I will need to be clear that all my prices are the cash DISCOUNTED price. I guess the CC lobby did a good job paying off our law makers...
 
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bfm

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Can anyone recommend the best way to prepare Crow? Does it go well with favs beans?

I will need to be clear that all my prices are the cash DISCOUNTED price. I guess the CC lobby did a good job paying off our law makers...
Other states are different and a lot of the protections against charging extra for credit cards elsewhere went away four or five years ago.

A convenience fee is not a surcharge
Convenience fees are not surcharges, which are costs added simply for the privilege of using a credit card.

All credit card issuers frown upon surcharges (though most have no problem with offering a discount for using cash).

“We believe that surcharging credit card purchases is harmful to consumers,” said Faust. “It is not a customer-friendly practice for a merchant to first attract a customer to its store or website to shop, and then to penalize the customer for using a charge or credit card that the merchant accepts.” Surcharges are also illegal in 10 states: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas, plus the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico.

However, that list of surcharge-free states may decrease, following a Supreme Court ruling on March 29, 2017, that New York’s anti-surcharge law impacts merchants’ free speech.
 

Buck F

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How in God's name is this thread still going? [laugh]
A little pivot here: Does anyone use Venmo? It's an smartphone app based money transfer system that allows you to pay individuals electronically from a checking account (no fee, takes a day or two to reach their account) or via credit card (fees apply, have never used it from credit card so don't know the details). My first Venmo transaction was before Xmas, I bought a gun from a friend. He loaned it to me to try out, I told him I'd take it and I'd get him a check. He asked if I was on Venmo, told me you HAVE to get on Venmo. I did, I paid him. I love it. I now use it to pay my landscaper and my cleaning lady, my Barber is thinking of accepting it too (he doesn't accept checks or CC). I use it when I need to give my ex extra cash for stuff for the kids and also to reimburse our kids caregivers if they take them to the zoo, our for lunch etc. When you sign on it'll automatically recognize your friends who use it from your contact. I know parents of college kids who use it to send their kids money. Millennials use it all the time to reimburse each other for things, particularly roomate situations. You can make the transactions private or not, of course mine all are but I see my SO's kid and my office manager's kid using it pretty much on a daily basis w/ their friends. I have also seen a couple of sellers in NES Classifieds say they accept it.

[popcorn]
 

mibro

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My kids use Venmo.

I'm thinking about it but I might be too old and crotchety.

"Get off my lawn!"
 

Buck F

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For Venmo, wife's family all use it. I have some security concerns around it and have not used it myself. It is owned by Paypal.


Why Are We All Still Using Venmo?

Good article. Yes, you definitely want to check your privacy settings in Venmo, millennials don't seem to care based on the activity I see. I also understand that using their product or any electronic service is not as secure or private as using cash no matter what the privacy settings are, the convenience outweighs those considerations for me. I will have to take a closer look at Square Cash.
 
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Gentlemen, please.

I'm going to need someone to explain why "cash is king." Besides sounding super cool to say, what's it the king of? Inconvenience? Zero incentive?

I discovered the wonderful world of credit card churning. Yes Chase Bank, I certainly do want your Reserve Card. And no, the $450 yearly fee is my pleasure. Don't mind me while I earn the intro bonus, use it typically on travel, pay the fee and come out on top the other end with Chase losing at least $500 on that one. Sure, Chase probably breaks even by the time you factor in what they charge vendors, but not my problem. (The Reserve has been halved since it came out due to it being notoriously easy to clean Chase out with)

I've been doing this for years. And my wife and I haven't paid to fly since. Nor have we paid for the majority of hotels or car rentals. I just ran through a card recently that I used for ~2 months, paid a $100 yearly fee on and cashed out ~$650 in amazon gift cards. You can do that also. Depends on the card.

So if you want to use cash papa bless. In the meantime I'll be jamming it up Chase/Citi/Barclays/X Airline's ass so far that I've resorted to flying my 3 and 4 year olds in first class so I can justify burning through cards faster.

Something people say to me often about this is isnt it bad for your credit? Apparently not. My score is typically ~810. Chase does keep track of how many new accounts are opened. If you exceed X number in Y years they will flat out deny any application. So now my wife and I alternate cards. I think I'm on card 3 this year and I believe shes used 2.
 

GlockJock

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I pay with a credit card for literally anything and everything, even a pack of gum or a bag of potato chips, etc etc....Cuz I get rewards (translation: CA$H) for every friggin transaction.... And if someone (merchant/service/store/whatever) isn't happy with me for doing it?

I really don't give a flying rats arse.
 
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Gentlemen, please.

I'm going to need someone to explain why "cash is king." Besides sounding super cool to say, what's it the king of? Inconvenience? Zero incentive?

I discovered the wonderful world of credit card churning. Yes Chase Bank, I certainly do want your Reserve Card. And no, the $450 yearly fee is my pleasure. Don't mind me while I earn the intro bonus, use it typically on travel, pay the fee and come out on top the other end with Chase losing at least $500 on that one. Sure, Chase probably breaks even by the time you factor in what they charge vendors, but not my problem. (The Reserve has been halved since it came out due to it being notoriously easy to clean Chase out with)

I've been doing this for years. And my wife and I haven't paid to fly since. Nor have we paid for the majority of hotels or car rentals. I just ran through a card recently that I used for ~2 months, paid a $100 yearly fee on and cashed out ~$650 in amazon gift cards. You can do that also. Depends on the card.

So if you want to use cash papa bless. In the meantime I'll be jamming it up Chase/Citi/Barclays/X Airline's ass so far that I've resorted to flying my 3 and 4 year olds in first class so I can justify burning through cards faster.

Something people say to me often about this is isnt it bad for your credit? Apparently not. My score is typically ~810. Chase does keep track of how many new accounts are opened. If you exceed X number in Y years they will flat out deny any application. So now my wife and I alternate cards. I think I'm on card 3 this year and I believe shes used 2.
Years ago, met a guy in college, fresh out of the marines.

Using the GI bill for school, running every expense on credit cards, and slowly building the credit line.

Then, he’s getting ready to graduate. He has a stack of gold in his apartment. Biggest stack of gold I’ve ever been next to. He maxed out all his cards, to the tune of 60k, and bought gold. Some of it was probably expenses.

He told me that his plan was to do it every 7 years, or whatever the limit was back then.

I don’t know how it ended for him, (credit card fraud when you run them up all at once and then head to bankruptcy court, I’m sure he’d done his research)

This was circa 1994. I think without searching, that gold was under 300 at the time.

So, @Dench , there are certainly benefits to credit. It will eventually end. That which is unsustainable, won’t be sustained. My marine buddy from college got a head start. Last I heard, he worked for a contractor that installs radar installations all over North America and Central America. Heads he was doing well. Still single though.
 
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So, @Dench , there are certainly benefits to credit. It will eventually end. That which is unsustainable, won’t be sustained. My marine buddy from college got a head start. Last I heard, he worked for a contractor that installs radar installations all over North America and Central America. Heads he was doing well. Still single though.
The game has already been changed drastically due to it being unsustainable for the credit card company or businesses. The big one for a while, before I got in it was to purchase tens of thousands of dollars of US $1 coins through the mint using credit. The mint would eat the fee, ship the coins on their dime and the credit card holder would bring the coins straight to a bank, deposit, pay balance and repeat. People were obliterating the mint and similar orgs who allowed for this sort of exchange.

The name of the game now is don't get in over your head. Because Chase is counting on it. Chase is giving me the chance to earn the bonus under a few hopes: mainly being I won't be able to pay the card quickly and hold a balance, and second that I either fail to earn the bonus (its X dollars in Y months) or I don't use the points or I earn the points, use them and keep using the card and get dinged on the yearly fee.

If you're able to pay off the balance in full, utilize the points and cancel the card you win. If you're unable to manage semi complicated CC churning, stay away. [rofl]
 

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My bank isn’t directly associated with zelle. So it’s not a part of the native app. When I was looking in to the stand alone app, I read some negative reviews about it and linking to your bank. I think all those issues are ironed out now

It is an instant transfer though... so when you hit the send button those funds are gone. That’s good and bad. Quick payments and receipt of funds, but no recourse if you need to back out a transaction.
 

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Gentlemen, please.

I'm going to need someone to explain why "cash is king." Besides sounding super cool to say, what's it the king of? Inconvenience? Zero incentive?

I discovered the wonderful world of credit card churning. Yes Chase Bank, I certainly do want your Reserve Card. And no, the $450 yearly fee is my pleasure. Don't mind me while I earn the intro bonus, use it typically on travel, pay the fee and come out on top the other end with Chase losing at least $500 on that one. Sure, Chase probably breaks even by the time you factor in what they charge vendors, but not my problem. (The Reserve has been halved since it came out due to it being notoriously easy to clean Chase out with)

I've been doing this for years. And my wife and I haven't paid to fly since. Nor have we paid for the majority of hotels or car rentals. I just ran through a card recently that I used for ~2 months, paid a $100 yearly fee on and cashed out ~$650 in amazon gift cards. You can do that also. Depends on the card.

So if you want to use cash papa bless. In the meantime I'll be jamming it up Chase/Citi/Barclays/X Airline's ass so far that I've resorted to flying my 3 and 4 year olds in first class so I can justify burning through cards faster.

Something people say to me often about this is isnt it bad for your credit? Apparently not. My score is typically ~810. Chase does keep track of how many new accounts are opened. If you exceed X number in Y years they will flat out deny any application. So now my wife and I alternate cards. I think I'm on card 3 this year and I believe shes used 2.
Yeah, I've wondered about this for years - is there a downside? I know a lot of banks don't really close your credit cards if you ask them to, but even that I'm not sure is an issue.

Higher credit limits help your CC score I think.

As for cash, we use it for things like paying contractors (that we like) and it's good to have some in case China hacks our banking system or there's a big hurricane. For day to day I don't use it.
 

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The game has already been changed drastically due to it being unsustainable for the credit card company or businesses. The big one for a while, before I got in it was to purchase tens of thousands of dollars of US $1 coins through the mint using credit. The mint would eat the fee, ship the coins on their dime and the credit card holder would bring the coins straight to a bank, deposit, pay balance and repeat. People were obliterating the mint and similar orgs who allowed for this sort of exchange.
So basically they did this to earn the 2% cashback or something?

Check out the gold/silver thread - we've been buying gold & silver with 10-15% cashback from Ebay (and until they stopped it, you could get 1% ebates). It's not a money maker since if you sell the metals back the spread will eat it up, but it's a great way to buy gold/silver close to or below spot price.
 
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So basically they did this to earn the 2% cashback or something?

Check out the gold/silver thread - we've been buying gold & silver with 10-15% cashback from Ebay (and until they stopped it, you could get 1% ebates). It's not a money maker since if you sell the metals back the spread will eat it up, but it's a great way to buy gold/silver close to or below spot price.
People were doing it for travel points most of the time. Ever want a 3 week all expenses trip to Tokyo on a 1st class flight? Things like that.
 

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Gentlemen, please.

I'm going to need someone to explain why "cash is king." Besides sounding super cool to say, what's it the king of? Inconvenience? Zero incentive?
It's the king of non-commercial transactions. It's anonymous.

Everyone is focusing on businesses, as if they're the only place you can buy things. When you stumble across a great deal, fate favors the full wallet.
 

HappyHarry

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For the "cash only guys" and the couple posters that mentioned trying to pay with $50 bills, try paying with $2 bills and see the 'what is this' looks on the faces of the younger folks. They usually don't believe it is real money!.
I recently had a cashier at Market Basket who had to check with a supervisor before she would accept a $1.00 silver certificate as part of my payment. I often use unusual low value coins & currency to pay in stores, just for sh*ts & giggles - buffalo nickels, silver certificates, steel cents, Ike dollars, even an occasional low-grade liberty nickel.
 
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https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140d/Section28a

You fools are missing the point. A shop CANNOT list a price and then charge you more if you pay with a credit card with only a tiny little sign in little font telling you about a surcharge. A shop CAN list a price but give you a discount if you pay in cash. The advertised price must be the highest price

Rat them out was obviously sarcastic. Welcome to the internet

Really? Rat them out?

Go buy your gun somewhere else if you dont like how they manage payments, but dont involve big brother.

For a bunch of people in a pretty expensive hobby, some here are real cheap bastards.
"illegal"? really? point me to the law either in MGL or in USC. Can't? Not surprised.

At most it is a contractual agreement between the seller and the processor which is civil, not criminal, hence not "illegal". words matter.

My processing agreement has no such restriction. You will find that many processing agreements have gotten rid of these restrictions. Traditional CC processors likely still have them because you have to directly sign agreements with Amex, Visa, MC, etc. Modern processors that bundle the services and insulate you from the vagaries of each individual bank are different. I have been through 3 processors in the past 3 years (2 canceled me because "GUNZ!") and none of them restricted me from charging more for processing plastic.

And yes I pass the 3% on to the person who wants to use plastic so I can keep the price as low as possible for people who understand that cash is king.

And if you don't like it, go elsewhere. I don't do this for you, but because I enjoy it and I meet interesting people. Since you clearly want to try out for "People of Walmart", go there instead.
Yeah, gun dealers don't have enough problem securing banking services now without the national players interfering. Go ahead and cut off their ability to collect payments.
 
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drgrant

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I'm going to need someone to explain why "cash is king." Besides sounding super cool to say, what's it the king of? Inconvenience? Zero incentive?
Because once in awhile people still work by old school rules and getting paid in cash is great. There's plenty of incentive when its like getting a 60% bonus. [rofl]

-Mike
 
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It's the king of non-commercial transactions. It's anonymous.

Everyone is focusing on businesses, as if they're the only place you can buy things. When you stumble across a great deal, fate favors the full wallet.
Having cash for a face to face deal on occasion isn't getting you the value of beating on CC's for bonus points, though.
 

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Having cash for a face to face deal on occasion isn't getting you the value of beating on CC's for bonus points, though.
Are we talking about guns here? Other old iron like motorcycles, tractors, classic cars?

If we are, then nobody cares about your CC points. All they care about is the cash you have in hand.

Sure, you can take your CC down to the bank or ATM and try to get an advance.... and meanwhile, the person who has cash has already scooped that purchase and loaded it up.
 

PatMcD

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Are we talking about guns here? Other old iron like motorcycles, tractors, classic cars?

If we are, then nobody cares about your CC points. All they care about is the cash you have in hand.

Sure, you can take your CC down to the bank or ATM and try to get an advance.... and meanwhile, the person who has cash has already scooped that purchase and loaded it up.
Cash talks, bullshit walks.
 
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