Carrying at work

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Are there any laws regarding carrying at work in MA? IIRC, the only prohibited place is a college campus/university. I'm not sure if the company allows/disallows it, but for obvious reasons I don't want to ask. So would carrying at work be the type of thing where I keep my mouth shut and the worst that could happen is me being fired if it was found out I was carrying and it was disallowed, or could the company pursue legal action? Thanks.
 

dwarven1

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Yup, read the employee handbook... and DON'T ask anyone 'cause they might get the idea that "gee... we oughtta put in the employee handbook that we're supposed to be a victim disarmament zone!".

Otherwise... don't ask, don't tell.
 

TWtommers

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What Kid said. Ask for a handbook and look for the clause. Carrying at work, provided your work does not take place in a prohibited place(s) and you are properly licensed is not illegal in any way AFAIK. However, depending upon you company's policy, it could be grounds for dismissal.
 
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My workplace also has a "no weapons" clause in their employee handbook. I think it's pretty much SOP to include such a clause as a CYA for the company in case someone does something dumb with a firearm on work premises. They can be like "well, it's not our fault Joe Moron shot Billy Bystander, this is supposed to be a gun-free zone!" If they do find out you're carrying at work, they can terminate you for cause.
 
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I agree. Check the handbook. If it is silent, then carry and keep your mouth shut. Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I have a gun box in my office that I store my handgun in and then I lock the box in my desk. I don't carry while I am at work, only from the office to the parking lot. I keep the keys with me so there is no issue of someone going through my desk when I am not there.
 
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my employee handbook has a very clear weapons policy and i'm sure yours does too. Not only am I not allowed to carry but weapons including guns, knives, and they even go as far as mentioning martial arts equipment, are not allowed any where on the property. It was really hard for me to leave my num chucks at home when I first started.
 

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I agree with Ross. It's pure BS to say that most handbooks even mention it at all. Ours was just revised and had that provision added, but it didn't matter anyways as the building I work in is statutorily prohibited by law anyways, so the "policy" is somewhat redundant and pointless. At least at my 2nd job, carry is mandatory. [grin]

For those not statutorily prohibited, you can either obey the stupid book or you can play by big kid rules, which is carry but just fly under the radar. A company policy is not law. Yeah, you can get fired, but even without a policy in place they could still fire you anyways if they found out, so whether it's "allowed" or "banned" in the handbook is mostly 110% irrelevant.

-Mike
 
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The no-weapon policy in handbooks carries the same weight as the policy says that you cannot photocopy your naked arse on company copiers. I personally think arse-copying is a worse offense because it uses company resources.
 

joeendris

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Policy:
To safeguard our employees, contractors, customers and the general public, we prohibit anyone including employee, vendor, contractor, supplier, visitor, or customer to have, bring or possess weapons (including all firearms, regardless of any official authorization or government permit), explosives or any sort of dangerous weapons or objects on <said company> premises or at <said company.-sponsored events.

This is pretty standard wording for most military, gov't, etc related workplaces. It adds exemptions for police and military of course. Sort of like a standard police state. You can't have them but we can....for your safety.
 

dwarven1

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The no-weapon policy in handbooks carries the same weight as the policy says that you cannot photocopy your naked arse on company copiers.

I don't recall reading that in our handbook, either.

Funny story - I once saw a guy who wanted to photocopy his naked butt on a copier. He dropped trou, hopped up on the machine and pressed the button... and promptly broke the glass when his naked arse fell THROUGH it as the glass frame moved sideways over empty air!!! It was one of those machines that moves the paper over the scanner rather than moving an internal scanner over the paper. I have to wonder if he ever managed to explain to his girlfriend how he got all those cuts on his ass - he was dripping blood and none of US wanted to bandage him! [rofl2] (we were all in our early 20's at the time...)
 

MisterHappy

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I don't recall reading that in our handbook, either.

Funny story - I once saw a guy who wanted to photocopy his naked butt on a copier. He dropped trou, hopped up on the machine and pressed the button... and promptly broke the glass when his naked arse fell THROUGH it as the glass frame moved sideways over empty air!!! It was one of those machines that moves the paper over the scanner rather than moving an internal scanner over the paper. I have to wonder if he ever managed to explain to his girlfriend how he got all those cuts on his ass - he was dripping blood and none of US wanted to bandage him! [rofl2] (we were all in our early 20's at the time...)


Reminds me of the joke that ends, "Doctor says, 'you're gonna die!'"
 
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IANAL but, as I understand it if the company you work for has an employee handbook in order to hold you culpable for infractions they have to prove you got one. So if you weren't given one and didn't sign a document stating you got it they are going to have a hard time dismissing you with reason for violating company policy. They will probably still let you go but would be able to prove willful neglect and deny you unemployment compensation. If I were you I'd ask to borrow a trusted coworkers copy over contacting HR/your supervisor.
 

drgrant

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IANAL but, as I understand it if the company you work for has an employee handbook in order to hold you culpable for infractions they have to prove you got one. So if you weren't given one and didn't sign a document stating you got it they are going to have a hard time dismissing you with reason for violating company policy. They will probably still let you go but would be able to prove willful neglect and deny you unemployment compensation. If I were you I'd ask to borrow a trusted coworkers copy over contacting HR/your supervisor.

At will employees can be dismissed for pretty much any reason at any time, unless the employee can prove that you were dismissed for one of the "protected" reasons, eg, Age, gender, etc, you're basically s**t out of luck. You might have an edge if your employment involves some sort of contract. Then if they fire you for some dumb
reason you can allege they breached their contract with you.

All the handbook does is give the employer something to point to if you try to sue them, it doesn't mean "because they allowed it by omission they can't fire you for it".

-Mike
 
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At will employees can be dismissed for pretty much any reason at any time, unless the employee can prove that you were dismissed for one of the "protected" reasons, eg, Age, gender, etc, you're basically s**t out of luck. You might have an edge if your employment involves some sort of contract. Then if they fire you for some dumb
reason you can allege they breached their contract with you.

All the handbook does is give the employer something to point to if you try to sue them, it doesn't mean "because they allowed it by omission they can't fire you for it".

-Mike

I never said they can't fire you for it. I said they can't fire you with just cause and deny you unemployment compensation because you willfully violated company policy.
 
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I never said they can't fire you for it. I said they can't fire you with just cause and deny you unemployment compensation because you willfully violated company policy.

I'd bet you are wrong.

Sorry, but I'm with capewalk on this one. Supposed ignorance of policy can easily hold up in an unemployment hearing.

I can't speak for this particular instance, but I can speak from experience that the unemployment examiner (at least in this state) wants to see evidence that the employee has been made well aware of the company policy that they were in violation of in order to consider denying them unemployment, previous to the instance.

I'd had scenarios where an employee would pull a no call, no show for multiple days running, return to work with no reasonable excuse for failing to contact us to inform us of their situation, and we still needed to prove that they were previously aware that this was a violation of company policy.
 
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I'd bet you are wrong.

Trust me I've been down this road as a manager. If you fire an employee and then want to deny him/her unemployment benefits he/she can request a hearing before an unemployment arbitrator. During that hearing if you wish to prevail you have to be able to prove the employee repeatedly violated a company policy despite warnings or violated a company policy that carries an immediate dismissal penalty. You also have to prove the employee knew or should have known the policy by proving that the employee received the company's handbook. Nothing less than a document signed by the employee or his/her admission of receipt of the handbook will suffice. In my experience if the arbitrator has any doubt regarding the employers case he/she will side with the employee.
 
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You also have to prove the employee knew or should have known the policy by proving that the employee received the company's handbook. Nothing less than a document signed by the employee or his/her admission of receipt of the handbook will suffice. In my experience if the arbitrator has any doubt regarding the employers case he/she will side with the employee.

Up to this point, we have not required a signature from an employee that they have received and have reviewed/will review our policies, including the sexual harassment policy. Every employee is given these documents upon hiring, and that has been sufficient so far, but we are reviewing that policy.
 
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I saw the handbook, it does contain a no weapons policy. It also states that the company reserves the right to search vehicles parked on their property if it is found an employee has a weapon. Is this legal?

This is just a warehouse type summer job for me, I won't be there long term. Concealing would be easy and the likelihood of printing or getting found is unlikely. Getting fired would suck especially because I would like to use the job as a future reference, but getting fired would be highly preferable to being unarmed in a tight situation.

Here is another question though. Say the company finds out you're carrying and calls the police as a result. The police show up, could you be arrested for any number of possible reasons, and how would that effect suitability when renewing an LTC?
 
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I saw the handbook, it does contain a no weapons policy. It also states that the company reserves the right to search vehicles parked on their property if it is found an employee has a weapon. Is this legal?

This is just a warehouse type summer job for me, I won't be there long term. Concealing would be easy and the likelihood of printing or getting found is unlikely. Getting fired would suck especially because I would like to use the job as a future reference, but getting fired would be highly preferable to being unarmed in a tight situation.

Here is another question though. Say the company finds out you're carrying and calls the police as a result. The police show up, could you be arrested for any number of possible reasons, and how would that effect suitability when renewing an LTC?

If they find out you're carrying, the worst they can do is fire you and tell you to leave. If you don't leave after that, they you're trespassing and things could get ugly for you, but technically you haven't broken any laws otherwise. However, they might call the police and report you even if you do leave, and it is conceivable that your CLEO could use the situation as a suitability issue. "Well, his employer has a no weapons policy and he violated it, so clearly he's not responsible enough to carry a firearm." Not saying it's right, but it could happen.
 
J

Jose

Trust me I've been down this road as a manager. If you fire an employee and then want to deny him/her unemployment benefits he/she can request a hearing before an unemployment arbitrator. During that hearing if you wish to prevail you have to be able to prove the employee repeatedly violated a company policy despite warnings or violated a company policy that carries an immediate dismissal penalty. You also have to prove the employee knew or should have known the policy by proving that the employee received the company's handbook. Nothing less than a document signed by the employee or his/her admission of receipt of the handbook will suffice. In my experience if the arbitrator has any doubt regarding the employers case he/she will side with the employee.
Your state is more f-ed up than I imagined.
 
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I saw the handbook, it does contain a no weapons policy. It also states that the company reserves the right to search vehicles parked on their property if it is found an employee has a weapon. Is this legal?

This is just a warehouse type summer job for me, I won't be there long term. Concealing would be easy and the likelihood of printing or getting found is unlikely. Getting fired would suck especially because I would like to use the job as a future reference, but getting fired would be highly preferable to being unarmed in a tight situation.

Here is another question though. Say the company finds out you're carrying and calls the police as a result. The police show up, could you be arrested for any number of possible reasons, and how would that effect suitability when renewing an LTC?

I'd love to know the answer to that part in bold.

I've read an employee handbook (from a huge company with lots of lawyers) that supposedly gives the employeer permission to search any employee's person, bags, vehicle, home, computers, etc.., and claims to enforce things like a"no weapons" policy on employees off of company property.
 

Rob Boudrie

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It also states that the company reserves the right to search vehicles parked on their property if it is found an employee has a weapon. Is this legal?
It's pretty easy to get away with things like "you will let us search that car or face termination". What is much tougher, and probably will not withstand legal scrutiny, is denying unemployment benefits after terminating someone for decline a car search; breaking into an employees car to enforce so-called "search rights"'; impounding a car or preventing it's removal from company property to preserve "search rights"; or using physical force to prevent an employee from getting into his car and driving off.

If one is ever at the point where an employer is searching the car, it's time to look for another job.

The employee at Disney who declined a search for a gun actually weakened his case as they could, and did, fire him for refusing a search. If he let them search, and they found the gun, he would have been able to argue that he was protected by the "gun in private car" law (although Disney has tried to claim the fact that they use fireworks puts them under the "explosives facility" exemption to that law).

and claims to enforce things like a"no weapons" policy on employees off of company property.
Does "off property" refer just to times you are on the job or do they require you to be disarmed 24x7 as a condition of employment (which, btw, is the policy applied to Nassau County, NY ADAs)?
 
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Len-2A Training

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I never said they can't fire you for it. I said they can't fire you with just cause and deny you unemployment compensation because you willfully violated company policy.

I'd bet you are wrong.

Last I knew (and that was ~10 years ago), there were only a couple of reasons why MA will deny you unemployment. IIRC one was stealing from the company and another was failing to show up to work. IIRC, failure to follow company policies was not deemed sufficient to deny unemployment benefits if the person requested an appeal hearing. I was even shocked to learn that I was eligible for unemployment benefits after quitting a job "for cause". [It was an IT support job at a college where my Hobson's choice was to face a lawsuit from Microsoft for disclosing their corporate confidential information (I was under numerous non-disclosure agreements) if I complied with my boss' order or quit the job. All Unemployment asked for was a copy of my resignation letter . . . which laid the above out, numerous labor law violations, and bad management practices . . . I intentionally didn't document the software piracy that they were doing as a friend was still working in the department. Some months after I quit, a friend who owned his own computer shop explained to me that I was eligible and should file.]

Up to this point, we have not required a signature from an employee that they have received and have reviewed/will review our policies, including the sexual harassment policy. Every employee is given these documents upon hiring, and that has been sufficient so far, but we are reviewing that policy.

I recall being hired by companies where I was made to sign that I had read and agreed to follow all current and future employee policies on my first day of work, BEFORE I ever saw the employee handbook. It was SOP and there is no way that you have the time to read the thing before they collect your signature in any case.
 
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