Careful what you say on a forum, SEI sues poster on another forum

[JoeT]

In fact for Daryl's own safety, perhaps he should set up a filter on the forum to prevent anyone from accidentally mentioning them in a future... as a service to them

who dat?

 

[GM-GUY]

The way to counter it is to reply to the posting, refute the charges, and if they aren't shipping - fix the problem and start shipping. As for me SEI is off my list - plenty of other suppliers.

 

[not new guy]

who dat?

I think he's Derek's alter ego.

 

[M1911]

You have to love a lawsuit that says that their receivers "can't be beat." [ROFL]

While I was aware of Smith Enterprises, I wasn't aware of those allegations. I am now. [Laugh] What a bunch of tards.

 

[PaulD]

I have a Springfield Armory MIA reciever on my rifle,and from what have been told is that SA didn't then and may not now make thier own recievers. based on the serial number on mine 008XXX that it was made here in New Hampshire, either Keene or Jaffery I don't remember which. This reciever was from the mid seventies.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they outsource production and the sources have probably changed over the years. I believe Springfield M1A receivers are investment cast (at least the new ones) and they might get produced as 80% receivers and then Springfield finishes up the machine work. That's a guess though.

 

[Spanz]

Wow... for a second their I thought this was about SEIU (the thugs). That sucks, I wonder if they will help out in numbers like people here did for nottom. Good luck on that suit.

Sent from my phone, blame auto spell for the havked ip words...

yeah that is what I thought too, some union thugs breaking knee caps. I do not know much about SEI, but if they are suing their customers, probably not long for this world!

 

[PatMcD]

Ron Smith is a better builder/gunsmith than he is a businessman. Always kind of a grouchy guy on the phone.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

that sucks, i always admired smith enterprise. their bolt stops for the m1a's are awesome.

i wonder when troy is going to serve all of NES lol

 

[Bonesinium]

I don't own nor plan to own any M14/M1A type rifle. I have no stake or bias in this in any way. But here are some facts relevant to this lawsuit. Make your own determination. I'm only posting because I find it quite interesting. Anyways:

On August 25, 2011, a representative of Smith Enterprises posted on M14forums:

I never said we had QC issues with the machine shop. I said that We had a "Come to jesus" talk with them to eyeball these things better. How many receivers do you think have been sold? how many receivers have had "problems". 2 and that was because when the receivers were heat treated the receiver legs came in too much. 2 out of all of them. Now if you dont like it. buy someone elses, thats fine.

On July 27, 2013, Jason Hammonds posted on M14forums:

I heard from a reliable source that they are experiencing heat treatment issues in their receivers. Reports of receiver threads cracking upon barrel installation, stuff like that. I can't imagine its been this long getting the tooling in order. Feeding us BS.

On August 28, 2013 Smith Enterprises filed lawsuit against Jason Hammonds, cited the above quote and stated:

These statements are entirely false. SEI has not experienced any heat treatment issues in the process of manufacturing its M14 receivers

It seems to me that they lied in their suit. Whether or not the issues they admitted to are different from the ones he is claiming to have heard from someone else about, I don't know. But neither he, nor the suit make any distinction. That, and the numerous other disparaging comments from SEI to other individuals seems to be telling of how they do business. Ouch!

References to the above:

Smith receiver - Page 20 - M14 Forum
Backordered SEI M14 Receiver From Croc's - Page 5 - M14 Forum
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0XyOXhO5LcXS2lwWERPNi1fd3c/edit

 

[nes]

 

[Another_David]

what a bunch of PR BS in that filing. they attest they're made one at a time. So if it's currently 7 months to get one wouldn't that mean they make not even 2 a year!!!

disappointing they didn't mention any cat posts in their play-by-play of the thread, lol

 

[PEW]

they attest they're made one at a time. So if it's currently 7 months to get one wouldn't that mean they make not even 2 a year!!!

Uh wut?

How does 'made one at a time' mean 'no backorders?'. I'm not seeing the connection between his claim of no batch processing, and any determination of time invested per unit.

This whole lawsuit is PR suicide. It amazes me that people like this are successful for so long.

 

[RoterTeufel]

Read the complaint - it's full of curious information, such as "forging introducing additional stresses", "widely known in the firearms industry that bar stock is superior to both forgings and castings" (ok, so they got that one half right).

Then why the hell would we work the metal? so full of FAIL....

 

[groundscrapers]

http://www.silencerresearch.com/ian187.pdf

AAC tried it too...

 

[groundscrapers]

Reality is the people at the helm of these companies should stick to what they know which is making guns and put someone with half a brain in charge of communications. Business 101... never bash your customers as there always right (even if they are wrong). This guy should have bent over backwards for the business his customers brought. I guess thats what happens when you become complacent.

 

[M1911]

Unfortunately, here in MA the truth isn't a defense against libel or slander. Read it and weep:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIII/TitleII/Chapter231/Section92

 

[terraformer]

Unfortunately, here in MA the truth isn't a defense against libel or slander. Read it and weep:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIII/TitleII/Chapter231/Section92

Be very glad it's written that way. The poster on M14 forums was clearly not acting maliciously (he was responding to a very public controversy not his making) and would be GTG under the MA statute. The MA statute is important because smart people, like lawyers, can twist the truth and then use false impressions left by a warped telling of the truth to bludgeon people's reputations and interfere with their employment, businesses, etc. The MA statute protects against that. It protects against abuse of a truthful statement defense. I have a lot of issues with MA law, this isn't one of them. Proving someone had malicious intent is a high bar, but if you can prove it, it's a good bet the person on the receiving end of that was out to screw with someone.

 

[M1911]

Having been threatened with a lawsuit over true statements, I will have to disagree.

 

[terraformer]

Having been threatened with a lawsuit over true statements, I will have to disagree.

Anyone can threaten anyone with anything.

 

[M1911]

Anyone can threaten anyone with anything.

Indeed. In this case, the cost to defend myself would have been significant. The cost for the other part would have simply been his spare time. And since the truth would not have been a defends, it may not have been tossed quickly.

 

[Steyr_AUG]

This may be of interest...

Smith receiver - Page 20 - M14 Forum

 

[M1911]

This may be of interest...

Smith receiver - Page 20 - M14 Forum

Wow. Some of those responses from SEI are priceless.

 

[KH56010]

Too lazy to read the complaint, but here is what's posted in that thread regarding it:

1. The court papers stipulate Jason is a competitor.
I don't know Jason so I have to go on my limited knowledge base.
Jason is not in the business of manufacturing or building guns for profit.
He does not posses an FFL.
Jason had 5 receivers on order.

Really pay attention to this next leap of logic;
SEI has to prove Jason is in the business of manufacturing or building guns as a competitor. Their proof will be the 5 receivers on order as well as how many others Jason has built and owned.
This attempt to prove Jason is a non FFL holder that builds weapons for sale as a competitor has vast consequences for all gun owners.
The anti gun lobby for years has tried to establish a number of purchases allowed for private purchase, this number has been tossed around in legislation for years.
If SEI wins a judgment that Jason's purchase of 5 receiver constitutes a non FFL competitor than all people in the future who purchase 5 guns could be in the same boat.
If SEI convinces the court system that Jason has bought, built, and sold weapons without an FFL he could go to jail if the government decided that the judgment proves Jason was a non FFL builder.

To all of you who belong to this forum or any other gun forum, if you have collection of weapons that you have assembled over time, if you are planning on adding to your private collection, ya better wake up, this could be the first time in our legal system that the antis get a real number on how many you can purchase without becoming a felon.

2. SEI court documents claim that Jason is not a customer.
Most have missed the importance of this claim, it dovetails into the competitor claim.
SEI has their supply chain, companies that they have approved to sell their receivers to who than sell them to the public via retail sales with a form 4473.

Ok, so what you ask? The claim is being made Jason is not one of their approved outlets, that Jason was purchasing SEI product to compete with SEI.

Both claims assert that Jason thru the purchase of 5 receivers constitutes a non FFL seller and competitor.

If you have read this far thank you.

We need to stop these claims for no other reason than 5 receivers doesn't make a dealer.

I have thought about this for awhile,
I sell shims here, some members like me some don't, right now we all need to set aside our differences and stop this suit or at least win.
I sell my shims here and only here as a service for the members.

I will from now on for every sale of shim kits at $14.00 (my regular price) donate $5.00 to Jason's legal fund.
If we don't stand here and now for our rights to own and purchase guns than when will we?

I challenge all of you who wish to help, if you have an SEI product sell it, post the item on Ebay, Gun Broker, Craigslist or any other public sales forum. In the advertisement state a percent or a certain amount will be donated to the Jason Edward Hammond legal defense fund and show the link.
If we do this it will keep you from losing all of your money on the item, it will help fund Jason, and it will use SEI's own product to help Jason.

Some how the NRA or other gun lobby needs to become aware of what SEI is attempting to do, this needs to be stopped before a judgment is rendered that changes the number of private purchases of guns to less than 5.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[mke0039]

If I was not afraid of them suing me, I would say they are a bunch of dickweeds!

 

[M1911]

Partyboy, the court records show that this legal issue was settled by the parties a couple years ago.