Carbine Training with Dave Harrington at Worcester Pistol & Rifle – May 2, 3, 2008

[Soxfan9]

Came away with alot of things to think about. I guess that's what good training is all about.

My biggest lesson learned? If and when the stuff hits the fan, my life is on the line, and a functioning rifle means the difference between life and death - I'll take my AK over the AR anytime. I never saw so many failures-to-fire over a two-day period in my life and it seemed everyone (maybe SoxFan9 aside) experienced at least one. Whether it was the mag dropping unexpectedly, or lowers improperly assembled, or whatever - there seemed to be ample opportunity with the AR's to practice immediate action drills.

I went through over a thousand rounds of dirty, nasty Wolf 7.62x39 in my cheap, ugly, 5-year old Romanian SAR-1, and it went "bang" every time I pulled the trigger.

Thank you, Mr. Kalashnikov! Not bad for an old Russian Tanker.

I had some myself, a couple when the rifle got dry on day one, and some from a bad mag on day 2. That was the first time that I, and I am sure others, ran their rifles that hard. It provided a good opportunity to evaluate where you and your equipment are "at", under stress, without someone shooting back at you. You could have tossed your AK in the mud to level the playing field .

 

[TRN]

Sounds like this was an excellent time!

 

[hminsky]

This was a great experience. It was kind of mind blowing to make the transition from "shooting at things" to "shooting things". But once that sank in, that this was a totally different frame of reference than the range, it totally rocked. It was scary at first, but the mental challenge was amazing. It will be sinking in for weeks I am sure.

When I got home the second day, We told my ten year old daughter she had to take a bath , and when she asked "do I have to?", I told her "do what you need to do for your own time and space"

 

[Admin]

Two words.... Good Shit

 

[Ozman]

I think Derek summed it up best.

But seriously, more than any other training I've taken, I'm amazed at how much impact was made on the mental aspect side of things as oppossed to "just" learning how to get more hits on target. This was more of a psychology lesson than a marksmanship class. I really feel as if my mindset has been readjusted and recalibrated as far as using these firearms (carbine and pistol) as tools to get the job done in lethal confrontation situations (read: gunfights).

Count me in if you bring Dave back for a "Level II", or, for that matter, the same exact course again.

As far as equipment: My 16" Bushmaster worked just about perfectly all weekend. Only problem with it was operator related. Same with my new .40 M&P. I discovered that it works far better when you actually have rounds IN the magazine when you want it to go bang.

Great folks in the class too. Very quick bonding for many in the group I thought with lots of cooperation and support, as oppossed to having one or more know-it-all pains in the rear who talk more than listen. Not that there's anyone around here like that.

And finally, thanks again to Darius, who once again has expended a huge amount of his own time and effort to put something together for the rest of us to enjoy and benefit from.

Steve O.

 

[USMA-82]

You could have tossed your AK in the mud to level the playing field .

Or, maybe just throw it to the floor!

Dude, works for me...

 

[Amicus]

Thanks again Darius for putting this on. My Colt had one mechanical malf (a testimony to the quality of the older ARs) and several operator-induced malfs, including one where I started a drill without a magazine. I don't think I'll ever forget the folks behind me yelling, "Solve the problem! Solve the problem!" They were pretty supportive, despite the laughter.

At the end of the first day someone asked me what I thought of the course. I said: 'Sometimes I think it's pretty good; sometimes I think Dave is batty.' I now take back the "batty" comment. The point of the course (if you can call it that) did not strike home until the second day. I told Dave that I didn't really get it until about the 50th time I heard him say 'Everything matters; everything's important." (Or was it the other way around?)'

I made my share of mistakes, and some of them surprised me. But this is how you learn. I suppose that to sum up the way the class worked, I could say: I started one drill with the lens covers closed on my EoTech (yeah, I know they are not recommended). I turned around and said: "I blew it." Followed by ...

Dave: When did you blow it?
Me: When I started with the covers down.
Dave: No. You blew it when you turned to the class and told them you blew it.

We ran those rifles pretty hard alright. I consumed about 1000 rounds of .223 and only about 200 rounds of pistol ammo. I'd do it again anytime.

 

[hminsky]

Here's some quotes from my notes, if anyone wants to add any good ones they remember:



"Everything is Important, Everything Matters"

"Make A Decision"

"If things aren't going as well as they could be, make an adjustment"

"Do what you need to do for your own time and space""

"You should be shooting things, not shooting at things"

"You have the rest of your life to solve the problem"

"Solve the problem!"

and one question which I got asked in one of the exercises, which is a good metaphor for a lot of things in life

"Why are you standing there with an empty pistol?"

 

[Amicus]

"You have the rest of your life to solve the problem"

I'd like to add for the benefit of any readers who did not attend that the statement is ironic: if you did not solve the problem, the 'rest of your life' could be measured in a handfull of heartbeats, or less.

 

[hminsky]

And how many people were a little concerned when Dave demonstrated his quick draw and reload with Darius five feet in front of him ? Anyone remember what the points of that excercise were?

 

[Admin]

He didn't muzzle anyone the entire class.

 

[hminsky]

He didn't muzzle anyone the entire class.

Yes, and he also noticed instantly if anyone of the people in the class was doing anything unsafe.

I was so surprised that he was shooting past Darius that I was having trouble remembering what that demonstration was about.

I think it had to do with showing how fast you could draw an unloaded gun, load it, and aim and fire, even if a threat was right in front of you. But it's kind of a blur now.

 

[Twigg]

Sounds like this was THE class to go to. I'd be very interested in attending if this (Or something of similar quality.) happens again

Can anyone describe what the course of fire was ? I'd have to think there were several stages at least here. 1,000 rounds of rifle ammo is a LOT of ammo to blow through in one day. I'm not asking for a detailed description just a synopsis of the events.

 

[hminsky]

Sounds like this was THE class to go to. I'd be very interested in attending if this (Or something of similar quality.) happens again

Can anyone describe what the course of fire was ? I'd have to think there were several stages at least here. 1,000 rounds of rifle ammo is a LOT of ammo to blow through in one day. I'm not asking for a detailed description just a synopsis of the events.

The parts I attended were something like this

+ check zero at 50 yards

+ 100 yard steel plates offhand standing

+ moving forward, then firing 5 round (or effective hits) , moving forward,then firing, repeat until near target

+ firing at mutiple targets while standing, working from outside to inside, two effective hits per target

+ moving laterally, firing to left side at targets

+ moving laterally firing to right side

+ moving backward, firing at target

+ moving diagonal firing at sequential targets

+ moving forward, transition to pistol

But that doesn't really capture the important part, which was how he
had people do the excercises. He would watch what people did, and ask
them why they did things the way they did, particularly if they were
getting into trouble. It was the process of learning how to answer those
questions for yourself that was the most transformational thing.

The quote about the empty pistol was from when we were working on transitioning to pistol, and at the end of the run you were supposed to do a 360 degree security check.

I emptied my rifle, drew and emptied my pistol, and started doing that security check, and Dave asked me "why are you standing there with an empty pistol?". He didn't say "reload your pistol", he set it up as an open ended question, so I had to break out of the spell I was in, after just having been moving and shooting and concentrating on transitioning and hitting the targets, to try to recall what it was I was trying to accomplish by the whole exercise. What was the problem was that we were learning how to solve?

He made the point that this is what training is, which is sort of the opposite of drill or practice. In the training part, you have to expand your awareness, and how you describe the problem you are working on, to try be in the best position at all times by making use of what you have and what you know. Or something like that.

 

[Twigg]

Sounds like a very interesting class.
Thanks and a Tip O'the Stetson™

 

[Soxfan9]

Did anyone get any pics?

 

[Admin]

Jon Green is working on getting them.