Carbine classes

[DrRansom]

Hi,

Been thinking about signing up for a carbine course located in CT. As far as I can tell, it's just a carbine, maybe a handgun, not sure. I have a MA LTC, and an MA-compliant carbine.

I've been poring through this section of the forum trying to figure out what I need to be compliant with CT law to attend this carbine course, basically locking the carbine and(maybe) glock in the trunk til i get there, and locking it back up when I leave. It seems as though the "formal training" clause may pertain to me, and allow me to bring one or both guns to the state legally, but I am not 100% on this. Can anyone provide a more definitive answer on the legality of what i'd like to do? is the handgun in violation, or would it be covered under the "formal training" clause as well? what about if i stay in a hotel room, how would that impact everything?

thanks. I did search through this forum, but didn't find anything specific to this particular situation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This info may be dated, but I looked into a class a couple of years ago in CT and here's what I found:

- Class MUST be an NRA class to exempt you from CT law requiring a CT permit to possess a handgun. Check carefully, most defensive courses are NOT NRA courses. [That was the case with the course I was looking at, defensive handgun IIRC . . . and I spoke with the folks advertising it to confirm I was on shaky legal ground to bring my handgun there.]
- CT bans certain ARs by brand/model name. You could have a MA compliant AR that is illegal to possess in CT!

Hopefully one of the CT crew will drop in and update info to help you further.

 

[DrRansom]

So the handgun is a no-go then, without CT LTC? The carbine is a Bravo Company, I didn't see that on the list. Pinned stock and muzzle brake, no bayonet lug, pre-ban 30rd mags.

 

[wrongcaptcha]

Your AR is clean.

 

[andyc4728]

I'm not sure when your class is, but you could look at getting your CT non-res pistol permit. It's not that hard but takes about 2 months. It can be done entirely by mail (you just need photos, fingerprints and notary).

 

[DrRansom]

I'm not sure when your class is, but you could look at getting your CT non-res pistol permit. It's not that hard but takes about 2 months. It can be done entirely by mail (you just need photos, fingerprints and notary).

i should do that anyway. i remember looking at it before, i think it was an NRA class requirement that kept me from pulling the trigger on that, not the fingerprints. I'll take another look.

 

[DrNVP]

I'm taking a carbine course in CT this spring as well. What AR's are specifically banned by name in CT?

My AR is a frankengun: Bushmaster lower receiver, Daniel Defense LPK, BCM upper. It was a perm brake, no bayo lug, pinned stock

 

[andyc4728]

i should do that anyway. i remember looking at it before, i think it was an NRA class requirement that kept me from pulling the trigger on that, not the fingerprints. I'll take another look.

Most of the courses needed for the MA LTC should work for the CT pistol permit. There is a chance you can just send in a copy of your existing course certificate.

I know all courses don't work for CT, but many do.

BTW which carbine course if you don't mind sharing info?

 

[andyc4728]

I'm taking a carbine course in CT this spring as well. What AR's are specifically banned by name in CT?

My AR is a frankengun: Bushmaster lower receiver, Daniel Defense LPK, BCM upper. It was a perm brake, no bayo lug, pinned stock

http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/special_licensing_and_firearms/assault_weapons.pdf

 

[Len-2A Training]

Most of the courses needed for the MA LTC should work for the CT pistol permit. There is a chance you can just send in a copy of your existing course certificate.

I know all courses don't work for CT, but many do.

BTW which carbine course if you don't mind sharing info?

IIRC, regrettably this is NOT true. I recall being corrected that ONLY NRA Basic Pistol is accepted by CT. Check their app info carefully on this.

 

[andyc4728]

IIRC, regrettably this is NOT true. I recall being corrected that ONLY NRA Basic Pistol is accepted by CT. Check their app info carefully on this.

I just checked; NRA Basic Pistol is certainly not the "ONLY" course accepted, but it is the "minimum" requirement.

More info here: http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&q=294502

 

[DrRansom]

BTW which carbine course if you don't mind sharing info?

If I can, there's a basic led by redback one and an advanced by kyle defoor. some of the best training available, and right in my backyard...prices are very good, too.

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/JASON_FALLA_37700.html

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/2-DAY-ADVANCED-CARBINE-37657.html

 

[Len-2A Training]

I just checked; NRA Basic Pistol is certainly not the "ONLY" course accepted, but it is the "minimum" requirement.

More info here: http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&q=294502

It is my understanding that it is all that they will accept. I'd suggest reading the actual law vs. the page cited above.

Since NRA Personal Protection in the Home is "the next step" after NRA BP (according to NRA) and is an intensive 10 hr course, I had seen others advertise it as adequate for CT permits. I then did the same when I advertised NRA PPIH. Someone in the know corrected me and gave me the background that CT will ONLY accept NRA BP. That's how I found out and it was only this Summer when this happened.

 

[DrRansom]

Since NRA Personal Protection in the Home is "the next step" after NRA BP (according to NRA) and is an intensive 10 hr course, I had seen others advertise it as adequate for CT permits. I then did the same when I advertised NRA PPIH. Someone in the know corrected me and gave me the background that CT will ONLY accept NRA BP. That's how I found out and it was only this Summer when this happened.

I hate NRA courses.

Guess I'll bite the bullet, though. Appreciate the help, fellas.

 

[andyc4728]

If I can, there's a basic led by redback one and an advanced by kyle defoor. some of the best training available, and right in my backyard...prices are very good, too.

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/JASON_FALLA_37700.html

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/2-DAY-ADVANCED-CARBINE-37657.html

Thanks -- these look very interesting and it's great to see them happening in the area.

 

[DrNVP]

If I can, there's a basic led by redback one and an advanced by kyle defoor. some of the best training available, and right in my backyard...prices are very good, too.

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/JASON_FALLA_37700.html

http://store.greygrouptraining.com/2-DAY-ADVANCED-CARBINE-37657.html

I signed up for the Jason falla course. It's not often guys like these have classes that are within driving distance of me.

I don't anticipate any pistol work for that class so I'm leaving it at home. Might not be true for defoor's advanced class.

 

[DrRansom]

I signed up for the Jason falla course. It's not often guys like these have classes that are within driving distance of me.

Neat. Perhaps I will meet you there. I think CT is about as far north as most of them ever get, and only rarely do these opportunities crop up.

 

[dcmdon]

So the handgun is a no-go then, without CT LTC? The carbine is a Bravo Company, I didn't see that on the list. Pinned stock and muzzle brake, no bayonet lug, pre-ban 30rd mags.

The handgun is not a No No. There is a carve out in CT law relating to formal competition and training. So if you come to CT for formal training or competition in a match, you do not need to have a pistol permit. The law is silent on how you would carry it, but suffice to say that if you transported in compliance with FOPA you would be good.

I'd be more careful about a non AWB compliant rifle. I'll research that later.

Don
MCS Precision
Sales, Training, Transfers, Estate Purchases

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

 

[DrRansom]

The handgun is not a No No. There is a carve out in CT law relating to formal competition and training. So if you come to CT for formal training or competition in a match, you do not need to have a pistol permit. The law is silent on how you would carry it, but suffice to say that if you transported in compliance with FOPA you would be good.

When I read that the first time, that was my assumption as well - Len had mentioned earlier in this thread that it must be an NRA course. I really want to take the Glock, and I think I will, but man do these laws give me bad vibes. One felony and you're screwed... :/

I'd be more careful about a non AWB compliant rifle. I'll research that later.

I'm trying to see if I can get them to bring a loaner or two for my guests who are not in compliance. I can proudly say that I don't use any components that make me more likely to commit murders (bayonet lugs, stocks, flash hiders, etc.). That makes me better than a lot of people.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I did my research ~2-3 years ago wrt a defensive handgun course being offered in CT. At that time, CT law that I found specifically called out NRA courses. No idea if that changed or if there is any other exemption somewhere but I decided not to bother . . . and I have no other use for a CT permit.

 

[DrRansom]

I did my research ~2-3 years ago wrt a defensive handgun course being offered in CT. At that time, CT law that I found
specifically called out NRA courses. No idea if that changed or if there is any other exemption somewhere but I decided not to bother . . . and I have no other use for a CT permit.

Within the context of qualifying for the permit, or carrying a firearm into the state for other "formal training"?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Within the context of qualifying for the permit, or carrying a firearm into the state for other "formal training"?

The latter.

 

[dcmdon]

I did my research ~2-3 years ago wrt a defensive handgun course being offered in CT. At that time, CT law that I found specifically called out NRA courses. No idea if that changed or if there is any other exemption somewhere but I decided not to bother . . . and I have no other use for a CT permit.

Len, that is plainly and simply wrong. We usually agree on most stuff, but here you are giving bad advice.

The only statute that mentions an NRA course is in the requirement for a pistol permit.
(29-28a - http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-28a.htm )

Seriously, don't spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

The law says what it says. Period. Don't complicate things.


Dr Ransom - we don't do things the way you do things in MA. CT is comparatively VERY VERY free. Machine guns, suppressors, high cap mags, no need to felate your CLEO for a pistol permit. FFL in your home, no problem.

We don't have any restrictions on buying ammo other than armor piercing .50 cal.

Shoot, we've even got Open Carry here in CT. I can legally drive down the road in CT with my AR across my lap and a loaded 50 round mag in my hand. No requirement for it to be in the trunk. Long guns can be transfered between private citizens with nothing more than a bill of sale.

If you read the rest of the statute, it says:

For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

I don't see the words NRA in there anywhere, and the statute even explicitly affirms the legality of carrying the pistol during training.

It doesn't get any more clear than that.

So you can be a MA sheep, afraid of your own shadow. Or you can come to CT and positively assert your rights. (Still not as good as NH, but in CT you can pretty much do/have anything if you follow the process)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don, I'll defer to your knowledge here.

I haven't read/researched this in a few years and haven't (won't bother) searching for the law on the CT state website as I have no need/desire to bring any guns into CT at any time.

 

[ericcif]

Or come to Portland, Me to weaponscraft and take courses. Not sure about the laws reguarding this but they have to be easier then MA, or CT.
http://www.weaponcrafttraining.com/

 

[dcmdon]

Actually Maine's laws are nearly identical to CTs. A permit is normally required, but with a specific carve out for training and competition.

With that said, I took Weaponcraft's Urban Carbine course and it was excellent.

Just this past weekend I took US Training's (Now Academi) tactical carbine course and it was also excellent.

 

[jar]

Actually Maine's laws are nearly identical to CTs. A permit is normally required, but with a specific carve out for training and competition.

With that said, I took Weaponcraft's Urban Carbine course and it was excellent.

Just this past weekend I took US Training's (Now Academi) tactical carbine course and it was also excellent.

Maine requires a permit to possess a handgun?

 

[dcmdon]

ME doesn't require a permit to own a handgun.

Neither does CT. You must have a permit to acquire a handgun. But once you have it you don't need to maintain it. Also, if you had a handgun prior to the requirement for a permit, you are legal keeping it in your home. Finally, if you move to CT with handguns, you don't have to do anything to be legal. Just don't leave home with them unless you have a pistol permit.

I'm not sure about OC but its legal in CT and generally OCers are no longer hassled by LEOs.

Both require a permit to carry.
Neither prohibits machine guns.
I'm not sure about suppressors or silencers , but they are fine in CT.

Neither has any legal requirements to buy or keep ammunition.

Neither has any limitations on the ownership of rifles. (obviously other than federal law)
Neither has any magazine capacity limitations.

CT does have the AWB, but its easy to legally get around it by just buying firearms that are either pre-ban or simply functional equivalents with a different name on the receiver.
Our AWB is so farcical that there are elements in the DPS pushing for it to be eliminated.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don, can you "transport" a pistol in a vehicle to the range, etc. w/o a permit?

What about Non-Residents? [I mean an informal, "let's get together and shoot" event, not training and not a competition.]

TTBOMK you don't need a permit in ME to do either of the above (Resident or not).

 

[Len-2A Training]

Neither has any legal requirements to buy or keep ammunition.

Probably ~25 yrs ago I stopped at a boat shop/gun shop on US-1 in Stonington, CT just to look around. Clerk comes to the counter and I just told him "I'm from MA and just looking around" to which he responded "Then I can't sell you ANYTHING!" and he disappeared to the back of the store. I was pretty sure that there were no restrictions on buying ammo in CT, but "oh well" and I just left.