Cap n Ball sales question

[cdkayak]

I've been thinking about selling my Ruger Old Army. When I purchased it I was still living in NJ & it required a NICs check and license.(NJ requires that for black powder & even air rifles) I'm pretty sure that is not required in ME and I know I can sell it FTF in ME. But if I list it on the board here are there any restriction in MA, NH, VT or CT that I need to be aware of for shipping?

Basically would this sale need to go through an FFL? Just want to cover all bases before any decision.

Thanks
CD

Edit to add an image since it may not be considered a true replica since it's based on the BlackHawk frame.

 

[Lynne]

From what I understand (Darius you can correct me if I'm wrong) Cap and ball (1860's circa replica) does not need a license to purchase or an FA10 filled out. It's considered a primitive weapon. However, if said buyer wanted to load and carry it, then they need to have at least a Class B license. You would also need at least an FID to purchase powder in MA for it.

Am I right Counselor?

 

[Chris]

Class B does not allow Loaded and concealed carry.

Basically when it comes to primitive firearms, Long arms are exempt from license, but pistols still fall under the LTC rules.

Either way, you need a license to have the ammunition as powder is defined as ammunition. So FID for the long arm and LTC for the pistol is what I understand.

Chief Glidden says the following:

Commonwealth vs Bibby (2002) is an appellate court decision that holds that a license is not required for a pre-1899 firearm (Mass Def of Firearm is Pistol) posessed in the home or place of business, but that a person could be charged with carrying that firearm, unlicensed, away from his home or business.

Now, does "Carry" here mean loaded and carried, or just transported? That is the real key.

 

[cdkayak]

I'm not concerned about carry with this, I just want to make sure I don't make any mistakes if I sell it outside of ME.

Basically when it comes to primitive firearms, Long arms are exempt from license, but pistols still fall under the LTC rules.

That's one of the things I wanted to find out.

Thanks,
CD

 

[Lynne]

You should be fine then cd.

Chirs, I err'd - I didn't mean it to sound like I mean concealed carry. My oops - I meant open carry, like for hunting

 

[Len-2A Training]

Commonwealth vs Bibby (2002) is an appellate court decision that holds that a license is not required for a pre-1899 firearm (Mass Def of Firearm is Pistol) posessed in the home or place of business, but that a person could be charged with carrying that firearm, unlicensed, away from his home or business.

Now, does "Carry" here mean loaded and carried, or just transported? That is the real key.

Chris, the case in point was of a perp who was up to no good and thought he would skate because he was carrying and concealing a loaded blackpowder handgun. Court saw it differently! Thus, "carry" in that case meant carried loaded on the person, not transported in a case.

 

[Chris]

Cool. That should make life easier. Oh wait, this is MA. Easy is illegal.

 

[Cross-X]

I know of one sad sack, not a client of mine, who was a bounty hunter from out of state who came to MA hot on the trail of a bail jumper.

He did not bother to inform the local PD he was about to apprehend the jumper, and he thought it was perfectly OK to carry a loaded cap and ball blackpowder revolver.

He was in over his head once the cops arrived.

 

[JayL]

Shipping black powder arms to MA

A number of years ago I did some Civil War re-enacting, and had a black powder musket shipped directly to my house. Is it possible to order and have, say, something like a replica 1851 Navy 44 cap and ball shipped directly? can a MA resident go to the KTP and buy one without going through a MA FFL? These old arms are cool, and I'd love to take one to the range, but was wondering basically if you can order them from Dixie Gun Works and have them shipped directly to a MA address.
Thanks!
Jay

 

[jdubois]

Yes, Jay, that is completely legal. Federally they are not included in the definition of "firearm" and so you do not need to transfer them through an FFL. According to MA law, they are still considered "weapons" (the closest MA equivalent of the federal term "firearm") but are exempted from most licensing issues (though you still cannot buy ammunition here in MA for them without at least an FID, and you cannot carry an antique handgun without an LTC).

Even so, some places won't ship them to you anyway, some will. I don't specifically know DGW's policy.

 

[Zappa]

Hmmm...interesting.
Back in the late 80's I bought a Ruger Old Army (stainless) from Roaches in Cambridge. I had to show my LTC, fill out the 4473 and state form as well.
They treated the sale just like any other handgun.
Does this mean that the registration paperwork was needless?

 

[jdubois]

Does this mean that the registration paperwork was needless?

Yup. But as I said above, while the law is clear, business policies vary.

See C.140 § 121 for the state law exempting them, and 18 USC 44 § 921(a)(3) & (16) for the federal law exempting them.

 

[GSG]

I know of one sad sack, not a client of mine, who was a bounty hunter from out of state who came to MA hot on the trail of a bail jumper.

He did not bother to inform the local PD he was about to apprehend the jumper, and he thought it was perfectly OK to carry a loaded cap and ball blackpowder revolver.

He was in over his head once the cops arrived.

Is his name Duane "Dog" Chapman, by any chance?

Yes I know he posted this years ago and probably won't see my response.

 

[dwarven1]

and you cannot carry an antique handgun with an LTC

Excuse me? Is this a typo or are you serious? I could carry a .44 Magnum but not a .44 Remington 1858 Army with my LTC-A/ALP?

Cite, please?

 

[jdubois]

Excuse me? Is this a typo or are you serious? I could carry a .44 Magnum but not a .44 Remington 1858 Army with my LTC-A/ALP?

Cite, please?

Oops, sorry, typo!! I meant to say you cannot carry an antique firearm WITHOUT an LTC.

 

[dwarven1]

If I could find Martlet's "kick in the nuts" smiley I would. As it is, I'll have to settle for this: