Can you throw used cases with used primers in regular garbage in MA

Golddiggie

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I know of a couple of scrap yards that also take the brass. Not sure if they'll take them from regular folks, or only from ranges/businesses.
 

richc

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OK, this happened to a good friend...

I'll call him Fred. Fred was going to visit Bill. Bill lived on Oak St. Extension but you could only get there via Oak Street. And of course Fred got mixed up and stopped at 8 Oak St instead of the Extension.

Fred was bringing Bill some brass cases. He lugged the heavy box of 4000 5.56 cases up to the front door and rang the bell. An old lady looks out at him through the window and Fred realizes he's at the wrong house. So he turns around and heads back to the truck. When he throws the box in the back seat he realizes there's a hole and he's dropped a metric shit ton of empty brass cases on the stairs and walkway of this strange house. He gets spooked and drives away looking for 8 Oak St Extenion (again all names and street names made up).

On the way to his buddy's house he hears police sirens. Oh shit, now he's really spooked. He gets to Bill's house and asks where he can hide his truck? Bill sends him over the lawn around to the back of the house.

Shortly thereafter the neighborhood is being canvassed by several police cars wondering why someone dropped all these empty brass cases on this poor old ladies front yard? He hung out at Bill's for several hours until they were sure the police were gone for sure.

Yeah, some of you might have flagged down the cops and told them what happened. But this guy was really afraid if he got the wrong cop he'd be in deep shit for something or other. This is Massachusetts after all, and a wealthy town within MA.

Oh well, shit happens...

:)
 

headednorth

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I'd hate to see cases end up at a scrap yard if they're usable. Plenty of people looking for used brass out there.
 

dcmdon

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Are you shooting at home?

Most ranges have buckets and recycle.

If you are not shooting at a range and have any real volume, find someone going to a range who will drop them for you.
Spoken like someone who doesn't reload.

If you reload, you end up with cracked, damaged, or otherwise undesirable pieces of brass that you don't want to reload with.
When I find these pieces, I usually wack them with a hammer once so I don't again try to reload them.

Then they go into my reloading room garbage, which is bagged with a construction strength garbage bag and is put in the can at the curb. No usable primers. No usable brass.
 

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What I like to do is take my dog for a walk on trash pickup day, wait til he takes a huge dump, hide the casings in said dump, and deposit load ( get it?) in unsuspecting neighbor's trash can. [troll]
 

dcmdon

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Your statements:
Are you shooting at home?
Most ranges have buckets and recycle.
If you are not shooting at a range and have any real volume, find someone going to a range who will drop them for you.


suggests that you hadn't thought about the reloading angle. In other words, you bring the brass home from the range, but while sorting it you come up with ones that can't be used. Or in the process of reloading you crush a case and need to dispose of it.

Anyone who has reloaded knows that you produce brass AT HOME that needs to be disposed of.
 

AHM

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Can you throw used cases with used primers in regular garbage in MA
I don't even throw ammo boxes in the garbage/recycle at home.
Because...

you should see the stuff that i trash from my reloading room. i just make sure there's nothing in the hefty that id's me. nothing dangerous of course but if that bag bursts at the curb my neighbors will think they live next door to a sleeper cell.
...it's nobody's business that we own guns'n'ammo.
Not my neighbors
(for range trips, we try to load/unload the car in the garage with the door down).

And especially not the garbage men.


One of life's little serendipities that made me realize that
"concealed" means "concealed" even in your driveway and at your curb,
was that while waiting for a traffic light in Southern NH,
I saw a guy pull a long gun from his trunk and carry it into his house.

I thought, "kewl, he just came back from a hunting trip".

And then I thought, "now I know that house on the corner stores guns;
I wonder if any burglars are waiting for the same traffic light?".


So when I break up a case of ammo to free up room in the safe,
by putting the individual bricks into locked boxes,
the corrugated cardboard box goes into our club's paper recycling dumpster.


I have talked with others about buying cases from someone in the PRM. It's only worth even trying (in person) if they've been deprimed. NOT going to buy any that even have spent primers in them. One guy wanted a stupid amount to ship them, and didn't seem willing to meet in NH (even though he was going into it and we could have met). For me, it was more a matter of if something happened and the popo saw them, I could get into trouble... So, not worth the pain.
That is a distinction without a difference.
(Unless I misunderstood,
and you hate decapping Other Peoples' Brass).

In the PRM, you need to be licensed to possess brass,
regardless of whether it is primed, spent, or decapped.

(It really harshed my mellow when some dude invented
a rimfire reloading kit. Because that meant that
spent .22LR brass was now an ammunition component;
i.e., something that could be turned into ammunition).

Anyone interested in jacking you up
for possessing brass without a license
could not possibly care less
whether or not the brass contains spent primers.

That applies to every level of the legal system
from the street cop that takes a disliking to you,
all the way up to the Governor, AG, SJC, and the majority legislative leadership.

On the other hand, as has been mentioned above,
(but in contrast to other mistaken statements above),
only the explosive components need to be locked up -
the primers (including live primed cases), powder (and fully assembled ammo).

But not naked brass, not spent primers, not bullets.
At worst, they merely constitute an attractive nuisance.

ETA: I used to labor under the exact same misunderstanding that inert components
had to be locked up. Then I did more homework and understood the Eevil Gun Statute/Splody Thing Fire Regulation distinction in the laws.
 

AHM

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my trash guys love me, they're the least of my troubles. [laugh] some of the stuff they see in their travels....unless their narcs?? [shocked]
It's not that they'll dime you out to The Man, because Shooty Ammo Boxes.

(Though someone in Chelmsford drew the line at finding a service handgun in a recycle basket).

It's the risk they'll see evidence of something in your house worth liberating, After Hours.
 

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I don't even throw ammo boxes in the garbage/recycle at home.
Because...

. . .

On the other hand, as has been mentioned above,
(but in contrast to other mistaken statements above),
only the explosive components need to be locked up -
the primers (including live primed cases), powder (and fully assembled ammo).

But not naked brass, not spent primers, not bullets.
At worst, they merely constitute an attractive nuisance.

ETA: I used to labor under the exact same misunderstanding that inert components
had to be locked up. Then I did more homework and understood the Eevil Gun Statute/Splody Thing Fire Regulation distinction in the laws.
I do throw ammo cartons/boxes in my recycle bin and if I pick up a shell casing on the floor of my garage it will go in that same recycle bin. Bins are picked up by mechanical arms on the side of the truck and dumped into the truck. No manual handling involved so I don't care.

CMR does not require locking up brass cases or bullets. But MGL prohibits access to those items by unlicensed parties, so by logical extension (I know logic and gun laws don't mix) the implication is that if you have those folks in your home that you would need to lock up all parts of ammo not just the "explosive parts".
 

AHM

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I do throw ammo cartons/boxes in my recycle bin and if I pick up a shell casing on the floor of my garage it will go in that same recycle bin. Bins are picked up by mechanical arms on the side of the truck and dumped into the truck. No manual handling involved so I don't care.
We don't own large capacity bins,
so our garbage man has to fling our recycling manually into the truck.


CMR does not require locking up brass cases or bullets. But MGL prohibits access to those items by unlicensed parties ...
"Access to", or "possession of", or "leaves unattended with the intent to transfer possession"?


If a spent shotgun shell drifts down the Merrimack or Connecticut from NH/VT,
and comes to rest on a PRM sandbar, has the northern New England gunner violated a law?
 

Mountain

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OK, this happened to a good friend...

I'll call him Fred. Fred was going to visit Bill. Bill lived on Oak St. Extension but you could only get there via Oak Street. And of course Fred got mixed up and stopped at 8 Oak St instead of the Extension.

Fred was bringing Bill some brass cases. He lugged the heavy box of 4000 5.56 cases up to the front door and rang the bell. An old lady looks out at him through the window and Fred realizes he's at the wrong house. So he turns around and heads back to the truck. When he throws the box in the back seat he realizes there's a hole and he's dropped a metric shit ton of empty brass cases on the stairs and walkway of this strange house. He gets spooked and drives away looking for 8 Oak St Extenion (again all names and street names made up).

On the way to his buddy's house he hears police sirens. Oh shit, now he's really spooked. He gets to Bill's house and asks where he can hide his truck? Bill sends him over the lawn around to the back of the house.

Shortly thereafter the neighborhood is being canvassed by several police cars wondering why someone dropped all these empty brass cases on this poor old ladies front yard? He hung out at Bill's for several hours until they were sure the police were gone for sure.

Yeah, some of you might have flagged down the cops and told them what happened. But this guy was really afraid if he got the wrong cop he'd be in deep shit for something or other. This is Massachusetts after all, and a wealthy town within MA.

Oh well, shit happens...

:)

LOL, just read this story. Funny as hell- but only because 'Fred' escaped the long, stinky finger of the law. [rofl]
 

Len-2A Training

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"Access to", or "possession of", or "leaves unattended with the intent to transfer possession"?
Let's just say that if the police find someone with brass/components/ammo w/o a MA LTC and it becomes known where they got it, that person can expect a very bad time (charges filed) for "allowing access".
 
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AHM

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Let's just say that if the police find someone with brass/components/ammo w/o a MA LTC and it becomes known where they got it, that person can expect a very bad time (charges filed) for "allowing access".
(I can readily believe it's not Massuitable, but)
I also can't find a law that makes it even as criminal as
leaving your classic (i.e., hot-wireable) car unlocked.

To put it another way,
you nearly sent an ADA to the stroke ward
by testifying in superior court that possession of a rifle, and non-large cap clips,
by a holder of an expired FID was not a violation of any criminal laws.

I'd like to think that you could make the case that
being the burglary victim
of a theft of inert brass was also not a crime.

Then again, serving Manhattan Clam Chowder
probably makes one Unsuitable in some jurisdictions.
 

Len-2A Training

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(I can readily believe it's not Massuitable, but)
I also can't find a law that makes it even as criminal as
leaving your classic (i.e., hot-wireable) car unlocked.

To put it another way,
you nearly sent an ADA to the stroke ward
by testifying in superior court that possession of a rifle, and non-large cap clips,
by a holder of an expired FID was not a violation of any criminal laws.

I'd like to think that you could make the case that
being the burglary victim
of a theft of inert brass was also not a crime.

Then again, serving Manhattan Clam Chowder
probably makes one Unsuitable in some jurisdictions.
Yes, but how many more similar "jack 'em up, the law be damned" cases have gone forward over the past few years without the benefit of my (or someone as knowledgeable of the real gun laws) expert testimony? It was purely coincidental that I was invited into that case by a PI that I once worked with when both of us were on the PD and I had shortly beforehand provided a Mass gun law seminar to a group that he attended.

And anyone that serves Manhattan clam chowder (yuck) in MA will get no sympathy from me!

Who the hell would want to?
When I find a stray case or two (usually .22LR, slightly used) on the floor, I do.
 
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M1911

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Let's just say that if the police find someone with brass/components/ammo w/o a MA LTC and it becomes known where they got it, that person can expect a very bad time (charges filed) for "allowing access".
Once again, I request that you post a reference to such a case. There is no crime of "allowing access" to ammunition components.
 
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Len-2A Training

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The risk isn't the statutory penalties. The risk is that the chief will consider you to be unsuitable and pull your LTC, at which point you can't even legally possess firearms in MA.
If children were found with ammo/components that came from a LTC-holder, you can bet your bottom dollar that the LTC would be revoked and no Marsupial judge will overturn that decision.
 

M1911

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If children were found with ammo/components that came from a LTC-holder, you can bet your bottom dollar that the LTC would be revoked and no Marsupial judge will overturn that decision.
Come on, Len. You keep banging this drum and yet you have not once pointed to a single instance.
 
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AHM

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Yes, but how many more similar "jack 'em up, the law be damned" cases have gone forward over the past few years without the benefit of my (or someone as knowledgeable of the real gun laws) expert testimony? ...
^This

Satisfies me. Thank you for the clarification.

I have no objection to the proposition that one may well beat the rap,
but one probably can't beat the ride.

And anyone that serves Manhattan clam chowder (yuck) in MA will get no sympathy from me!
Luckily, I don't have a badger in that race -
I'm not a seafood person;
I didn't get where I am today by eating seafood.

Once again, I request that you post a reference to such a case. There is no crime of "allowing access" to ammunition components.
Come on, Len. You keep banging this drum and yet you have not once pointed to a single instance.
I bet that you and I have comparable objections to that dogma,
but Len's last formulation of his position satisfies me.

I'm not much for gray areas,
but I hope you agree at least in theory
that reasonable people can hold different opinions about
what edge cases are or aren't Massprudent.
 

Len-2A Training

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Come on, Len. You keep banging this drum and yet you have not once pointed to a single instance.
I don't visit courthouses where I would be able to obtain the proof you ask for.

I do talk with LEOs, since ~1990 I've been on some closed (LEO only) elists/forums where info is shared, have talked with some DAs, dealt with a rabid ADA (and the arresting officer) in the case I testified about, read a totally bogus report by a MSP ballistics "expert" with ~20 yrs experience that claimed a standard Norinco SKS and the clips to feed the internal mag both held 11 rds and thus the charges of large capacity gun/clips, possession with an expired FID (never tried to renew) . . . he was charged with illegal possession of firearms/ammo without a license, etc. So regardless of what you read in MGL, having some on the ground knowledge of how things really work lead me to the drum I was beating on. The public defender he had has no clue about Mass gun law and invested ZERO time in learning it, so according to the PI without my involvement he definitely would have been convicted of multiple felonies on totally bogus charges. So feel free to diss my comments, do as you please and pray that nothing ever comes of it.

As AHM says, with a good firearms attorney you might beat the conviction but you "won't beat the ride" and the arrest on your lifetime permanent record.
 

M1911

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Len, I don't buy it. I've never heard of a single gun owner get jammed up for not having ammo components locked up. I've never even heard a rumor of that happening. You are way past extrapolation here.

I'm well aware of prosecutors and judges being dolts. The late Darius Arbabi told me about a client who was charged with having a large capacity magazine -- the prosecutor claimed that since the mag held 10 and the gun could hold 1 in the chamber, that 10 + 1 = 11 > 10. So, yes, legal stupidity abounds.

But this? Sorry, I don't buy it.

In my opinion, you are devolving into scare-mongering on this point.
 

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M1911, just because you haven't heard of something does not make it true or false. Charges in a District or Superior Court aren't made public outside the courthouse walls unless the media makes a splash about it. Convictions or CWOFs oftentimes don't actually relate directly to the original charges.

A PD where they revoke an Army Officer's LTC for sitting in the children's section of a Public Library would have no regrets at doing the same in a scenario that I painted above. I've known a lot of chiefs over the years and some of them would also do the same thing, I am certain of it.

You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, which is obviously more conservative than yours in this case.
 
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