Can u draw ur concealed carry in this case?

[mattyw]

if you think he is going to shoot you, shoot him first, not a hard concept.

I personally would be hesitant to hand anything over without seeing a weapon, but who knows how it goes in a stressful situation like that

she lived so she didn't handle it horribly

 

[frenchman]

Common sense says the threat of weapon is good enough as real. If someone says "I have a knife or gun" then I will assume they have one. I would do what it takes to survive.

If someone tells me he has a knife or a gun, I'll tell him to make up his mind and get off of my lawn.

 

[nick989]

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/armed_assailant_dead_ludlow_fa.html#incart_m-rpt-1

How about in this case? What if this guy was at your neighbor's house and you heard the shooting and came outside and shot the guy? Not trying to jack the thread but I was thinking about this story after I read this thread

 

[Rob Boudrie]

?

The basics of the use of deadly force are quite similar in MA as in most other states.

In legal theory, yes.

In practice, quite a different matter.

 

[BattleSnail]

I would have told the thief to go **** himself. He had no gun. If he did, he'd have shown it. I'd show him mine instead.

 

[Artifact]

There have been instances where the victim did everything correctly in terms of complying with the perpetrator and at the end they still got shot.

Gun or no gun as long as the initiating party mentions a firearm then it becomes a coin toss.

Is up to you as the possible victim to toss the coin and make the split second decision.

I, personally don't gamble with my life and that of my family if anything were to happen to me.

I will not let the other party take the upper hand and make decision for me, Martha or no Martha. I want to be the one in charge, I am not giving the criminal the upper hand and let him/her/they become the decision makers.

 

[M1911]

In legal theory, yes.

In practice, quite a different matter.

I disagree.

Plenty of people have been persecuted in those "better" states -- George Zimmerman, for example.

- - - Updated - - -

I will not let the other party take the upper hand and make decision for me, Martha or no Martha..

Once again, with feeling, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL NOT BE INVOLVED. Yes, I am yelling. If you are prosecuted, it will almost certainly be by the District Attorney's office, not the Attorney General's office.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

?

The basics of the use of deadly force are quite similar in MA as in most other states.

True, but the resulting repercussions from using it if you have to are vastly different in most other states.

In Kentucky, the situation in the OP and the perp was blown away would be met with praise from the local sheriff and most all of the police departments and DAs.

I have a neighbor who had a brother threatening to kill him. The sheriff told him "if he comes on your property shoot him and we'll send someone out for the body". No ifs ands or buts...

In Mass, the litigation would never end.

To the OP, if a robber told me he had a gun, I'd shoot him before the next sentence came out of his mouth.

I'm a firm believer in the tried by twelve than carried by six doctrine.

 

[M1911]

True, but the resulting reprocessing for using it if you have to are vastly different in most other states.

In Kentucky, the situation in the OP would be met with praise from the local sheriff and most all of the police departments and DAs.

I have a neighbor who had a brother threatening to kill him. The sheriff told him "if he comes on your property shoot him and we'll send someone out for the body". No ifs ands or buts...

In Mass, the litigation would never end.

There have been plenty of cases like Zimmerman's in "good" jurisdictions. Remember the Ward Bird case in NH?

People keep claiming that other states are "nirvana" when it comes to self defense.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I disagree.

Plenty of people have been persecuted in those "better" states -- George Zimmerman, for example.

One case does not prove a tendency, just as one smoker living to 90 cancer free does not disprove the correlation between smoking and lung cancer.

 

[Artifact]

I disagree.

Plenty of people have been persecuted in those "better" states -- George Zimmerman, for example.

- - - Updated - - -



Once again, with feeling, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL NOT BE INVOLVED. Yes, I am yelling. If you are prosecuted, it will almost certainly be by the District Attorney's office, not the Attorney General's office.

I understand that, I mentioned Marsha because as always someone brings her up.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

There have been plenty of cases like Zimmerman's in "good" jurisdictions. Remember the Ward Bird case in NH?

People keep claiming that other states are "nirvana" when it comes to self defense.

Kentucky 503.080.......about as close to "nirvana" as it comes regarding self defense. As a result, society is quite polite there in most places.

 

[M1911]

One case does not prove a tendency, just as one smoker living to 90 cancer free does not disprove the correlation between smoking and lung cancer.

Is MA worse than many (most?) states? Probably. But having taken LFI-1 and listening to Ayoob, he worked more than a few cases in "good" states.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Is MA worse than many (most?) states? Probably. But having taken LFI-1 and listening to Ayoob, he worked more than a few cases in "good" states.

It's not even necessarily the laws in Mass that make it so bad, it's the mindset of the brainwashed public.......you know, those who will be sitting in the jury box?

People think differently in the free states, they understand the right to self defense, the 2a, personal property and the defense of all three.

 

[drgrant]

Is MA worse than many (most?) states? Probably. But having taken LFI-1 and listening to Ayoob, he worked more than a few cases in "good" states.

Ayoob has a built in bias, though.... do you think someone is going to call him up and pay for him as an expert witness if there is a clean SD case? Probably not. Ayoobs entire career is dealing with messed up corner cases of self defense. I would bet that most of the time, the cases he sees are hardly typical. I've read a lot of his material, and a lot of the cases he's been called to serve involve what I would call extroardinary situations. In one case it even involved a numbskull who WENT BACK TO THE SCENE OF A CRIME that had occurred earlier. Obviously that is going to present challenges above and beyond the norm.

This isn't any different than asking a tow truck driver what the probability of getting in a bad wreck during a winter storm is. Of course they're going to say "Yeah it's ****in dangerous out there today" because they just pulled 10 effed up cars out of snowbanks, etc.

If someone was actually able to collect the data, I would bet that the george zimmerman, harold fish, et al" type cases are often the exception rather than the rule. People use guns in self defense every day, and most of them don't end up on constant CNN rotation.

-Mike

 

[MaynardDad]

Has anyone tried to compile a complete list of good-guy self-defense shootings in Massachusetts—say, for the last decade?

 

[Neriski3]

Unless a gun turns towards you - just work on being a good witness. The state will pretty much punish you severely for anything else you do. Regardless if lawful and of the best intentions. The trouble isn't worth someone else's money in my opinion.

Legally in this state this is probably the smart thing to do. However how often do you hear that a victim cooperated with all demands and the scum POS still shoots/stabs/kills them.

I don't know about you but I'm not going to gamble when my life is at stake.

One thing is for sure, I would never get back into the car. Once you are in there who knows if it could turn into a carjacking and with the guy behind you, you'll never know for sure if he has a gun until it is too late.

 

[xcom]

You don't have to wait until a gun is pointed at your or is discharged to be legally justified in using deadly force.

Moreover, one should keep in mind that if I pull a realistic toy gun on someone or stick my two fingers into someones back, I can still be charged with armed robbery in the Commonwealth. The key is in the reasonable mind of the victim. In the above, the person has affirmatively stated that he has a gun. Maybe he ditched his gun getting out of dodge once you pull yours out? Regardless, I do think the individual had reason to fear for her life under these facts.

 

[Serapis]

a lot of paranoia in this thread.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

a lot of paranoia in this thread.

+1,000

 

[RLeeA]

1) Did robber have the ABILITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
2) Did robber have the OPPORTUNITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
3) Is reasonable belief of the victim that an attack is imminent?
4) Did victim use all possible lesser means to get out of the situation unharmed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wrench75]

Pull until slide lock.

 

[BattleSnail]

Pull until slide lock.

It must be cool to live in a state where you don't have to waste precious seconds debating the legal consequences of defending yourself in situations where anyone with a normally functioning brain would say, "yes this situation is pretty obviously a good shoot situation".

 

[Chevy 2 65]

1) Did robber have the ABILITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
2) Did robber have the OPPORTUNITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
3) Is reasonable belief of the victim that an attack is imminent?
4) Did victim use all possible lesser means to get out of the situation unharmed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes

 

[mattyw]

It must be cool to live in a state where you don't have to waste precious seconds debating the legal consequences of defending yourself in situations where anyone with a normally functioning brain would say, "yes this situation is pretty obviously a good shoot situation".

you don't have to do that in any state, NES just loves to do it

fear for your life? pull the trigger, who cares what the perception of legal consequence is

 

[WatchCityCPA]

a lot of paranoia in this thread.

It ain't paranoia if the gov is actually out to get you.

 

[BattleSnail]

you don't have to do that in any state, NES just loves to do it

fear for your life? pull the trigger, who cares what the perception of legal consequence is

^true....maybe it's because we're always speculating on hypos with the thought of prosecution lingering in our minds.....when the situation was real and in our face, I think most would make the decision pretty easily. I know I would.

 

[45collector]

In the Gravest Extreme is a book that every person who carries a firearm for self defense should read, regardless of what state they live in.

I actually loaned my copy to a buddy over a year ago and he still hasn't returned it.

 

[Wrench75]

It must be cool to live in a state where you don't have to waste precious seconds debating the legal consequences of defending yourself in situations where anyone with a normally functioning brain would say, "yes this situation is pretty obviously a good shoot situation".

It really does do wonders for your piece of mind. Shortly after I moved here I had a conversation with a SC judge who is friends with my brother in law. We talked about what it is like in MA when it comes to "self help" and I presented a few different scenarios often lamented here. His response was simple and beautiful. "If someone ever threatens you down here. You pull your gun and shoot them in the ****ing face." Somehow I resisted the urge to hug him. lol

Another thing to consider down here is. Since anyone can just walk in to a shop and buy a gun w/o a license, there is no reason to assume they are lying when a shitbag says they have a gun. Which is damn significant when you are trying to claim you had a "reasonable" fear for your life. Hell people's guns own guns down here.

 

[Machete]

1) Did robber have the ABILITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
2) Did robber have the OPPORTUNITY to cause serious bodily injury or death?
3) Is reasonable belief of the victim that an attack is imminent?
4) Did victim use all possible lesser means to get out of the situation unharmed?

And that's /thread right there!