Can NH police tell if you have a Concealed Carry Permit?

[ggboy]

Constitutional carry.
Any chance Obama will veto it?
ggboy

 

[Len-2A Training]

Constitutional carry.
Any chance Obama will veto it?
ggboy

Certainly!

If he gets elected Governor of NH!

 

[Kevin_NH]

My guess is no they don't. They have to radio or call it in.

They not only have to call it in, they have to call the town that issued it -- there isn't even a central queryable database. I suspect most towns just keep all the active licenseholders' applications in a drawer somewhere.

My brother said that the officer informed him that he NEEDS a non-res P&R in order to carry/transport in NH. Conversation/debate went on for a few minutes. Left with a written warning on excessive speed and nothing happened to his Ruger. I told him to simply print RSA Chapt. 159 and just keep it in his car in case it happens again. Of course, he might have to re-print that come this spring should Constitutional Carry become law here.

It's not a New Hampshire thing, I've never know State Police to be particularly aware of state law.

In NH, they have yet to get around to updating the website to take into account the [thread=217916]2013 Oriel Dor case[/thread].

 

[Ringworm]

Nice! Asking two separate "Yes or No" questions in the same sentence, either answer being interpreted as "You are free to leave."

It's sort of like when they ask, "Do you mind if I take a look inside your vehicle?" Either a Yes or No response is construed as your consent for them to toss your vehicle.

"I do mind, and no you can't look inside my car, it's locked"
Any questions?

 

[fivepak]

Certainly!

If he gets elected Governor of NH!

Way to answer the guy's question.

ggboy,
It's a state thing. Obama will have nothing to do with it, but I think Hassan is likely to veto it.

 

[jct61765]

Certainly!

If he gets elected Governor of NH!

Dont even kid about that!!

 

[nhpoke]

...but I think Hassan is likely to veto it.

I hope you are wrong (but quietly fear you are right).

 

[knfmn]

As others have said, plenty of reasons here to keep 2A and political stickers off your car. I've never had a pleasant encounter with cops where guns were involved, even in a very free state. IME, they tend to be jealous of anyone else carrying a firearm and do their best to escalate the encounter.

 

[ggboy]

Is there much of a chance riciprocity ( sorry about the spelling) can pass on a national level?
Also, any truth to the news ( reported on GMA) that the Colorado senate is pushing for a repeal of the
gun laws they as two years ago?
ggboy

 

[mikem317]

Way to answer the guy's question.

ggboy,
It's a state thing. Obama will have nothing to do with it, but I think Hassan is likely to veto it.

While the GOP has almost 60% of both chambers, I beleive there are a sufficient number of pro-rights Dems in order to get it through a veto or 'bill sits on desk'.

 

[fivepak]

While the GOP has almost 60% of both chambers, I beleive there are a sufficient number of pro-rights Dems in order to get it through a veto or 'bill sits on desk'.

That would be awesome.

 

[KBCraig]

Is there much of a chance riciprocity ( sorry about the spelling) can pass on a national level?

Let's hope not. We do NOT want the feds involved in where or when we can or can't carry.

 

[HuntMaine]

Answer is YES.
That is when they pat you down

 

[ggboy]

As I understand the original wording in the bill, a valid LTC in any state would be valid in any other.
Perhaps someone has more accuurate information.
ggboy

 

[mrbeal]

My Chief in MA loved my "I carry a .45 because they don't make a .46" tee shirt. I know this because he stopped to talk to me one day and told me.

Why do I not have a problem with a LEO asking me if I'm carrying??? If I am so effin what? I have a license to do so and if he/she doesn't like it than tough cookies.

I think this brings up an interesting point... the cop can see your DL, are you then asked if you're driving a vehicle? Granted you were driving when pulled over but you get my point. Personally, (and I don't have a gun yet) I'd rather be asked and answer yes than shift in my seat at the wrong time and have the butt of a gun suddenly come into the open and get shot dead because the cop didn't know it was there. Call me crazy but I'd rather be handcuffed on the street for a few minutes than dead. Some people say it's an invasion, I say it's LEO's job to know what's what and make informed decisions before bad stuff happens "because it's my right".

 

[basscatfrank]

I think this brings up an interesting point... the cop can see your DL, are you then asked if you're driving a vehicle? Granted you were driving when pulled over but you get my point. Personally, (and I don't have a gun yet) I'd rather be asked and answer yes than shift in my seat at the wrong time and have the butt of a gun suddenly come into the open and get shot dead because the cop didn't know it was there. Call me crazy but I'd rather be handcuffed on the street for a few minutes than dead. Some people say it's an invasion, I say it's LEO's job to know what's what and make informed decisions before bad stuff happens "because it's my right".

OK, you're crazy. You are also uninformed and dangerous. I find the "I don't have anything to hide" crowd to be utterly contemptible. You may acquiesce to the abrogation of constitutional rights but I do not.

 

[nhpoke]

I say it's LEO's job to know what's what and make informed decisions before bad stuff happens "because it's my right".

Fortunately it is not your right to infringe on mine (unfortunately many people believe that it is).

 

[Len-2A Training]

You see we are discussing New Hampshire here on this thread, This is exactly the kind of "Acceptance, Conditioning and training" that I mentioned in another thread. Here it is none of their damn business. No, I don't buy that it is for their safety. The safest place for any firearm is where "I" am carrying it. I don't need some stupid untrained Street Monkey who has no knowledge of firearms waving one around that he or she has no idea of how it functions. Yes, Most cops are stupid and undisciplined when it comes to firearms.

mrbeal, read and re-read what Joe stated here. Much like Joe, I worked as a PO for a number of years, have spoken to a number of the current POs on my former department and they have no clue what is in their holster, never mind firearm safety. I've had more loaded and unloaded guns pointed at me in police stations when I was working than ever on a gun range with "mere civilians" on the range. I've had my captain handle his gun to show another senior officer something while other officers were downrange scoring targets on a qualification event. I had a retired MSP Lt. (and he had run their range for a number of years) take the gun off his duty belt and put it on his desk pointing at my gut while talking with him in his office, he did this twice that shift (he was shift commander at BC PD where I also worked PT).

Now I could hope that NH LEOs are smarter about gun safety as all my experience has been with MA LEOs, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it. YMMV

Also since you don't have a gun yet, perhaps you should do some more studying about CCW BEFORE you even consider buying one. If a cop is going to see the butt of the gun while you fidget around in a car, so are people in stores and "on the street". This just proves that you don't know how to dress around the gun to ensure that it is NOT EVER VISIBLE to anyone while you are CCW'g, period! [This is NOT the best forum to learn about that stuff. Go do some reading on DefensiveCarry.com, it's dedicated specifically to the topic of "carrying a gun"!]

Fortunately it is not your right to infringe on mine (unfortunately many people believe that it is).

So true, sadly!

 

[ScottS]

I think this brings up an interesting point... the cop can see your DL, are you then asked if you're driving a vehicle? Granted you were driving when pulled over but you get my point. Personally, (and I don't have a gun yet) I'd rather be asked and answer yes than shift in my seat at the wrong time and have the butt of a gun suddenly come into the open and get shot dead because the cop didn't know it was there. Call me crazy but I'd rather be handcuffed on the street for a few minutes than dead. Some people say it's an invasion, I say it's LEO's job to know what's what and make informed decisions before bad stuff happens "because it's my right".

Call me crazy, but I don't think those are my only two alternatives.

A false dilemma (also called black-and-white thinking, bifurcation, denying a conjunct, the either–or fallacy, false dichotomy, fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of the false alternative, or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.

How about this: I hand the cop my DL, keep my mouth shut, he gives me a ticket/warning/laurel and hardy handshake and I'm on my way. No one is "...handcuffed on the street..." and no one is dead. I like that one.

You don't sell cars, to you? "Are you going to buy this car, or are you going to strand you wife on the side of the road some dark and rainy night..."

 

[mrbeal]

Call me crazy, but I don't think those are my only two alternatives.



How about this: I hand the cop my DL, keep my mouth shut, he gives me a ticket/warning/laurel and hardy handshake and I'm on my way. No one is "...handcuffed on the street..." and no one is dead. I like that one.

You don't sell cars, to you? "Are you going to buy this car, or are you going to strand you wife on the side of the road some dark and rainy night..."

The whole point of what I said was if they ask just say yes... what's the harm? Ferguson rings a bell here as someone who was non-compliant to LE and is now dead. How many other times in the news have we heard of a shooting by cop and the whole gist of the situation was someone was NOT COMPLYING with an order from a cop (notice I left out "lawful")? If a cop asks me if I'm carrying I'm going to answer - not because I feel it is within their right to be nosy but because I still have the respect for LE that most of the time they deserve. My feeling is why complicate the situation?

I'm also not saying that "handcuffed on the street or shot dead" would be the only possible outcomes of that purely hypothetical situation - ScottS and I are apparently both believers of looking at a situation in many different ways BUT, as someone else (sorry, forgot the name) pointed out there are some cops who don't know gun safety 101... those are the ones that I'm afraid would either cuff or shoot me in that situation.

I'm afraid I may have chosen the wrong forum to learn more about this upcoming change in my life. I'll stick around and maybe even post some more but certainly not anything that has people jumping down my throat because I give MY opinion about something.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Pick Up That can, Citizen

Also since you don't have a gun yet, perhaps you should do some more studying about CCW BEFORE you even consider buying one. If a cop is going to see the butt of the gun while you fidget around in a car, so are people in stores and "on the street". This just proves that you don't know how to dress around the gun to ensure that it is NOT EVER VISIBLE to anyone while you are CCW'g, period!

Few people in NH get all paranoid about "concealed means concealed", open carry is perfectly fine, as is imperfect concealment.

As others have said, plenty of reasons here to keep 2A and political stickers off your car. I've never had a pleasant encounter with cops where guns were involved, even in a very free state. IME, they tend to be jealous of anyone else carrying a firearm and do their best to escalate the encounter.

Stickers or no stickers, I've never been asked the "any guns?" question. Of course, with about 10% of the adult residents of many towns having P&R licenses, NH cops may assume everybody they pull over is carrying. If there's no duty to disclose, why volunteer more information and needlessly complicate a simple encounter?

This is exactly the kind of "Acceptance, Conditioning and training" that I mentioned in another thread.

I make a distinction between being "compliant" (obeying lawful orders) and being a meek little subject who offers up your neck to every LEO who comes within twenty feet.

Pick Up That can, Citizen​

 

[nhpoke]

They not only have to call it in, they have to call the town that issued it -- there isn't even a central queryable database. I suspect most towns just keep all the active licenseholders' applications in a drawer somewhere.

(Bumping this... Sorry)
@Kevin_NH is there a source for this information? Not arguing with you, and I believe the same thing, just looking for a source to "quote" in some other discussions.
Thanks.

 

[drgrant]

I figure someone in this forum knows the answer .....

This is the story a friend of mine told me.....

My friend ( NH resident ) was driving in NH and was stopped by a police officer for a traffic infraction.

According to my friend, the police officer came up to his car and then took and ran his drivers license.

When the Officer came back to my friends car, he asked my friend if he was caring a concealed weapon.

I questioned my friends "story" because I don't believe there is any tie in between being issued a NH CCP and the NH driver license.

My question to you all is....

Does anyone actually know if/when a NH resident is issued a CCP, is that information somehow imputed into their NH driving license record?

A bet of a case of beer is riding on the answer !

If the stop was in the town of issue they might keep a database.

If there are any "tells" on your friends car (like gun, NRA, military, stickers, etc ) all bets are 110% off. This is another reason I don't put the things on my car. (after much internal debate).

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I think this brings up an interesting point... the cop can see your DL, are you then asked if you're driving a vehicle? Granted you were driving when pulled over but you get my point. Personally, (and I don't have a gun yet) I'd rather be asked and answer yes than shift in my seat at the wrong time and have the butt of a gun suddenly come into the open and get shot dead because the cop didn't know it was there. Call me crazy but I'd rather be handcuffed on the street for a few minutes than dead. Some people say it's an invasion, I say it's LEO's job to know what's what and make informed decisions before bad stuff happens "because it's my right".

With this mentality you're bound to have some fun with the police on the side of the road. New England is not compulsory notify territory on a traffic stop. The rest of us just take our cite, warning, whatever, and go on with our lives. Yapping about guns or permits or whatever has the propensity to increase the duration of the stop, which is never in your favor. Your mission when stopped should be to find out what the LEO wants, and peacefully conclude the encounter, without drama, argument, or bullshit. There are some rare occasions where you may wish to notify tactfully, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Apply some thought to it for more than 10 seconds and it makes sense. Waving your LTC or P/R license out the window, by default, like a retard without even being asked about guns on a stop is pure stupidity. I even go so far as to keep any such cards out of view in my wallet, as well.

-Mike

 

[CTpatriot]

As I understand the original wording in the bill, a valid LTC in any state would be valid in any other.
Perhaps someone has more accuurate information.
ggboy

so a MA LTC would be valid in NYC?, the bloomberg weinies would shit their panties.

 

[mikem317]

If the stop was in the town of issue they might keep a database.

If there are any "tells" on your friends car (like gun, NRA, military, stickers, etc ) all bets are 110% off. This is another reason I don't put the things on my car. (after much internal debate).

-Mike

I love the look of the Gadsden Flag. But it has turned into a "for sure" tell! Still keep them on my cars though.

 

[Kevin_NH]

One opponent testifying at the Constitutional Carry hearing earlier this month claimed that the permitting process was valuable because it enabled cops to know if the driver had a gun when conducting a traffic stop or responding to a domestic disturbance. Nobody pointed out the holes in that argument at the time.

(Bumping this... Sorry) @Kevin_NH is there a source for this information? Not arguing with you, and I believe the same thing, just looking for a source to "quote" in some other discussions. Thanks.

No problem, I always link to the appropriate RSA when I can, however it is very difficult to prove a negative. The only real source I have for any town-level data is a Telegraph article from 2011.

RCFP says "Although there is no statutory prohibition on disclosing the data, there are no statutes or court decisions affirming that the records are public.".

I wonder if towns which share dispatch also share their manila folder full of past permit applications? As RCFP mentions, there is no explicit protection for this data under NH law.

 

[nhpoke]

One opponent testifying at the Constitutional Carry hearing earlier this month claimed that the permitting process was valuable because it enabled cops to know if the driver had a gun when conducting a traffic stop or responding to a domestic disturbance. Nobody pointed out the holes in that argument at the time.

Agreed, and now some of the reps are parroting that, which I'm seeing if I can discredit.

No problem, I always link to the appropriate RSA when I can, however it is very difficult to prove a negative. The only real source I have for any town-level data is a Telegraph article from 2011.

RCFP says "Although there is no statutory prohibition on disclosing the data, there are no statutes or court decisions affirming that the records are public.".

I wonder if towns which share dispatch also share their manila folder full of past permit applications? As RCFP mentions, there is no explicit protection for this data under NH law.

That helps. I may reach out to Nashua Telegraph to see how their RTK request was structured.
Thanks.

 

[Horrible]

The whole point of what I said was if they ask just say yes... what's the harm? Ferguson rings a bell here as someone who was non-compliant to LE and is now dead. How many other times in the news have we heard of a shooting by cop and the whole gist of the situation was someone was NOT COMPLYING with an order from a cop (notice I left out "lawful")? If a cop asks me if I'm carrying I'm going to answer - not because I feel it is within their right to be nosy but because I still have the respect for LE that most of the time they deserve. My feeling is why complicate the situation?

I'm also not saying that "handcuffed on the street or shot dead" would be the only possible outcomes of that purely hypothetical situation - ScottS and I are apparently both believers of looking at a situation in many different ways BUT, as someone else (sorry, forgot the name) pointed out there are some cops who don't know gun safety 101... those are the ones that I'm afraid would either cuff or shoot me in that situation.

I'm afraid I may have chosen the wrong forum to learn more about this upcoming change in my life. I'll stick around and maybe even post some more but certainly not anything that has people jumping down my throat because I give MY opinion about something.

Bad example with Ferguson. Michael Brown bullcharged and beat the crap out of the officer that feared for his life. THAT is why Brown didn't walk away from that encounter. He put the officer's life in jeopardy.

Please re-read LenS' post (Post #50 in this thread) as there is some good information there.

Definitely do stick around as there is plenty of good information on this site as well. Also know that people take their Constitutional rights seriously here.