Can LEO open carry while in plain clothes in MA??

[MidKnight]

I work in Cambridge (for the next two weeks that is) and frequent a Dunkin Donuts shop down the street (go figure).

Twice in the past 6 months I've seen individuals open carry in that shop. One was a big dude, not dressed too respectably that had a large revolver on his hip, outside, 3 o'clock. He jumped into his mercedes and drove away. Didn't look like a cop, didn't drive a cops car. The other time was a well dressed guy with a SIG in the same position.

Either of them could have been a plainclothes cop or an off duty cop, but I doubt it. So, is ANYONE allowed to open carry in MA. And can a cop open carry without having a badge visable?

BTW, as far as I could tell NOBODY even noticed these individuals and their firearms. Infact my coworker stood beside on of them at the counter and she didn't notices the autoloader a snake's bite away. Funny what people don't see.

 

[JonJ]

Open carry may not be the smartest thing to do but there is no law against it. I've carried open numerous times without my badge showing.
Jon

 

[MidKnight]

Really? Can I ask a few more questions?

When you open carried w/o badge showing, where you on duty or off? If you're off duty are you able to carry open at all?

Can a Joe6Pack MA resident ever carry open w/ or w/o a LTC?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Really? Can I ask a few more questions?

When you open carried w/o badge showing, where you on duty or off? If you're off duty are you able to carry open at all?

Can a Joe6Pack MA resident ever carry open w/ or w/o a LTC?

Some of our detectives used to carry openly with no badge showing in the stores in the center of town. Personally I always worried that someone would either go ballistic and call the PD (they weren't carrying a radio either) or they could be easily disarmed (not retention holsters).

I also recall (many, many years ago) while I was patrolling the square seeing a middle-aged gentleman (shirt and tie) visibly armed making a night-drop at the bank (might have been 8-9PM). He didn't really look too out of place so I never stopped and ID'd him, but asked my chief about him (advantage of a small town). Chief told me that it was the manager of Shaw's Supermarket in town making the night drop. The world has changed since then, we've imported thousands more granola crunching tree huggers and today the same thing is a 50-50 chance of bringing in a LEC swat team!

I have carried openly a few times in town and elsewhere, but always with the badge visible and a cuff case over the rear pocket. Nobody bats an eye. Otherwise it is concealed or I sometimes carry openly in the car on the way to the gun club (w/o badge visible).

It is NOT recommended to carry openly unless you display a LE badge with it. Chiefs who give out those discretionary LTCs frown on it and doing otherwise will and has resulted in people losing their LTC (chief claims "not suitable person" and it is all over).

W/o a LTC, even thinking about a gun is a felony! Mere possession of a single spent cartridge casing without a proper license is a criminal offense and a lifetime disqualifier from ever getting a license! This is PRM, keep that in mind.

 

[JonJ]

Really? Can I ask a few more questions?

When you open carried w/o badge showing, where you on duty or off? If you're off duty are you able to carry open at all?

Can a Joe6Pack MA resident ever carry open w/ or w/o a LTC?

I have carried openly both on and off duty w/o the badge. Like Len reiterated, it's not the smartest thing to do and I admit that I'm not always the smartest person.
An easy "for instance" on carrying open w/o badge, is after work, in the summer (no coat) I zip over to Home Depot or other do errands. I don't make a habit of it and if I remember, I try and cover it up.

 

[SiameseRat]

I'd be too afraid that an anti-judge would say that open carry is the same as brandishing and would therefore yank your LTC forevermore...

Better safe than sorry unless you're a cop. Which sucks for the rest of us. No offense to any LEOs but it is kind of a pain that there are certain laws that just don't apply.

 

[JonJ]

I'd be too afraid that an anti-judge would say that open carry is the same as brandishing and would therefore yank your LTC forevermore...

Better safe than sorry unless you're a cop. Which sucks for the rest of us. No offense to any LEOs but it is kind of a pain that there are certain laws that just don't apply.

No offense taken. I don't think that's it's right either. Just like me being able to carry in all 50 under H.R. 218. I feel that if you can carry in your home state, you should be able to carry in all 50 no matter who you are.

 

[Nickle]

Yeah, but the ONE problem with your thought, Jon, is that all Vermonters that aren't disqualified to possess (Federal Standards), are US citizens and have ID could carry anywhere.

Not that that's a bad idea, I'm all for it for every state, but it just wouldn't fly as a Federal Law, the Nanny States would fight it hard.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'd be too afraid that an anti-judge would say that open carry is the same as brandishing and would therefore yank your LTC forevermore...

Better safe than sorry unless you're a cop. Which sucks for the rest of us. No offense to any LEOs but it is kind of a pain that there are certain laws that just don't apply.

SR,

Correction: It's not the judges that yank your LTC, it is the chief! Thus, if he THINKS (a very dangerous condition ) that what you/I do is "unwise" he just uses "not suitable" and it is all over, for life (or at least until he leaves that job or you move). No judge/jury needs to decide anything to screw you forever.

Even for a cop, if the chief disapproves of a LEO carrying openly, he can impose sanctions. So nobody is impervious to these problems.

 

[KMaurer]

I tend to agree with L. Neil Smith on this one. Anybody who can't be trusted to walk around carrying a loaded firearm (openly or concealed; select -fire, semi or even single-shot; FHJ, hollow-points, AP or tracers --- whatever floats your boat) should either be locked up or only allowed out in public with a responsible adult caretaker. It shouldn't matter what state you live in, whether you're acitizen or even whether you're a US resident. Unfortunately, I live here.

Ken

 

[Skald]

Wasn't there a push to have something like a federal CCW that would be valid in all 50 states? I thought I heard something along those lines.

 

[Republic of Mass]

I open cary EVERY DAY! (at my house haha)...

I would never open cary in public. There have been a few times where I may have taken my cover garmet off JUST before getting in my car, or got out then put it on (I cant drive in a jacket, way too uncomfortable), but that's the extent.

Also, dont stereoptype what cops are driving. Many a cops are pulling 100+/year checks, we have officers on the dept I work for sporting BMW's, Benz's, and escalades.


Regarding Open cary, I saw a trooper driving a unmarked chevy Van down the cape last week open caryingin jeans, his badge was barely visible (homeboy also needed a gun-belt, his Sig was flopping and sagging all over the place), and also saw an off-duty trooper open-cary into a range last month sporting his badge. Not sure if MSP authorizes such, or if he was in his actualy working (I'm pretty sure MSP isn't using Toyota's...)

Also, one of the first things I do when I get to my range is remove my cover garmet.... They rent to anyone, and now rent Class-III to anyone, I want all these gangbangers to know I'm packing, give them another level of hesitation before turning the MP5 towards me....

 

[MidKnight]

Also, dont stereoptype what cops are driving. Many a cops are pulling 100+/year checks, we have officers on the dept I work for sporting BMW's, Benz's, and escalades.

Sorry, grew up in the woods of PA. Cops didn't pull in the kind of cash that they can around here. I've heard that LEOs can pull great money if they work overtime and what not around here.

Thanks for all the replys!

 

[mark056]

Open carry for unsworn citizens is just not a good idea here in Mass. While there is nothing to actually prevent it, there is nothing that actually allows it either, so it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

In the agency that I work for (as a civilian) I have observed sworn personnel carry openly with and without badge display, but I would have to say that the majority display their badges when openly carrying.

Now to me, what is the big deal about open carry ? I grew up in Arizona and lived there until from 1963 to 1979. At that time open carry was permitted except where prohibited by municipal ordinance (like in Tombstone, thank you Wyatt). At that time there was no provision for CCW for civilians (that changed in the late 80's or early 90's and Arizona became a "shall issue" state.) Back then we all wanted to carry concealed and used to piss and moan about not being able to do so. There were, of course people who ignored the law, and people also got caught and convicted for carrying concealed. Frankly, if I had my druthers, I much prefer concealed carry to open carry having been in a position where I have done both legally, and that includes even out in the field. I think it is a case of opposites attracting or the forbidden fruit or something like that. Even in open carry states, unless one is out in the boonies or in very small towns, the open carrying of a sidearm will attract unwanted attention these days and did in days past.

If I were to change any part of the current Mass LTC law (other than make it a "shall issue" state which is highly unlikely) I would change the carry in vehicles. There is no reason why a handgun cannot be positioned in a glove box or console instead of on one's person or locked and secured unloaded in the trunk.

Mark

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well yesterday when I was in Costco's, I see this guy pushing a cart towards the front of the store. He's wearing black BDUs with bulging side pockets, black combat boots, a black T-shirt and a pancake holster with some sort of Tupperware (he was ~50' away).

I later spot him leaning over the carriage in line for the register (easy target for a gun grab from behind), so I make an excuse to head to the front of the store to get an empty carton. As I walk back I stare at his shirt and can only make out "Police" over something that looks like the wings of a bird (it's a transfer on the T-shirt, not embroidered). Very strange logo, nothing like any badge/logo I've seen before. We lock eyes and he nods acknowledgment at me and I do the same. I was never closer than 20' from him. No badge, no cuffs, no visible mag carriers.

Nobody else even blinked in the store.

I do NOT recommend doing this however!

 

[Admin]

Len, I'm a little disappointed you didnt recognize me. [lol]

 

[Lynne]

Len, I'm a little disappointed you didnt recognize me. [lol]

He evidently wasn't looking at your very cute butt.

[lol] [lol]

 

[Weerd Beard]

Frankly I wouldn't dare open cary ANYWHERE in the Northeast. These states are too damn blue for any of the residents to see a gun as anything but a compact wad of pure evil.

I got my rifle bore-sighted at Roache's Sporting Goods in Porter Square, Cambridge. I was walking down mass ave with a locked and unloaded in a gun bag, and if looks could kill I would have died 100ft from the store.

Also in my Hometown of Portland Maine Cheif "Media" Mike Chitwood actully confiscated an open-carry firearm from a law-abiding citizen at a public fair.

When the man went to reclaim his gun, he had another gun on his hip. 8)

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, I'm a little disappointed you didnt recognize me. [lol]

Oh it was you hung over the shopping cart!! [roll]

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, I'm a little disappointed you didnt recognize me. [lol]

He evidently wasn't looking at your very cute butt.

[lol] [lol]

Sorry, wrong gender for me to notice that!

 

[Lynne]

When I was working security, I had to stop in at the market on my way home one day. I was in uniform and the gun was on my belt with my mag light, handcuffs and mace. I couldn't leave the gun in the car as I didn't have any locks with me, soooo, I go in with my Sigma showing proudly, and no one paid me one single bit of attention. Well, I should append that...there was one guy who smiled and winked at me. Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

 

[JonJ]

Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

The pink fur lined ones? [roll]

 

[Lynne]

Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

The pink fur lined ones? [roll]

Actually, they're lilac.

[lol]

 

[dwarven1]

Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

The pink fur lined ones? [roll]

Actually, they're lilac.

[lol]

Oooh... I'm in love.

 

[Republic of Mass]

Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

The pink fur lined ones? [roll]

Actually, they're lilac.

[lol]

Oooh... I'm in love.

Yea, went out with a girl Friday... we get a kissing in the car, she dives in my glove compartment and grab my cuffs and procedes to try to cuff me to the headrest Hehe

 

[Lynne]

Maybe he just liked women in uniforms...who had handcuffs.

The pink fur lined ones? [roll]

Actually, they're lilac.

[lol]

Oooh... I'm in love.

Yea, went out with a girl Friday... we get a kissing in the car, she dives in my glove compartment and grab my cuffs and procedes to try to cuff me to the headrest Hehe

Thanks for sharing RofM...please...no more.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks for sharing RofM...please...no more.

+1